Meathead Football

[SWC75]

Who runs a base I formation now? QB's are rarely under center. It's just not how the game is played.

Football is cyclical. The option comes ,goes and comes back. So does the middle guard/nose tackle. The Wildcat is single wing football. If nobody runs it, the defense won't be prepared for it. And it fits our personnel.

 

[money3189]

Who runs a base I formation now? QB's are rarely under center. It's just not how the game is played.

NFL guys are under center but they are in shot gun more and more now. Even when they are under center the runs blocking schemes are the same as colleges. Its mostly inside and outside zone mixed in with gap blocking. Not sure how many NFL teams rely on straight man blocking. I dont think many do. There's rarely any fullback to run iso plays.

 

[OrangePA]

Who runs a base I formation now? QB's are rarely under center. It's just not how the game is played.

My football acumen is minimal.

But, I am convinced that working under center gives the QB and the offense an advantage.

It allows the QB to hide the ball - to use play action more effectively - and to keep the defense off balance.

I also feel that it is much more interesting to watch.

I look forward to the day when OCs go back to it.

 

[money3189]

My football acumen is minimal.

But, I am convinced that working under center gives the QB and the offense an advantage.

It allows the QB to hide the ball - to use play action more effectively - and to keep the defense off balance.

I also feel that it is much more interesting to watch.

I look forward to the day when OCs go back to it.

Thats a preference, we enjoyed watching that style through the years. Its what we grown to know and like but it doesnt mean its more effective. You can do a lot more out of shot gun. You have more play fakes options in shot gun along with RPO's. Under center you are just missing the boot action, where your back is turned toward the defense. I love that too and would like to see more of that.

 

[RandomGuy]

I don't think we will ever be able to simply pound the ball.

Thats a choice. Physically, a few guys can/should be able to move people at will. If Addazio was the coach? They would. (And we'd give up potential offensive explosion)

It seems we're trying to strike a balance with the oline/and the veer and shoot. Right now? Both sides of that balance are struggling.

I like meathead, because it presents a certainty in the run game. Line fundamentals are not Tempo, or reliant on Wr's, QBs, etc... A strength in one area, should yield positive results in another. A weakness in one area shouldn't take down the whole ship.

 

[SWC75]

Thats a preference, we enjoyed watching that style through the years. Its what we grown to know and like but it doesnt mean its more effective. You can do a lot more out of shot gun. You have more play fakes options in shot gun along with RPO's. Under center you are just missing the boot action, where your back is turned toward the defense. I love that too and would like to see more of that.

I think the more people you have in the backfield, the more deception you can use. Having more receivers is nice but it's not deceptive.

 

[money3189]

I think the more people you have in the backfield, the more deception you can use. Having more receivers is nice but it's not deceptive.

You talking a FB/TB I formation? How much more deception can you have in that set in comparison to two 21 personnel in shotgun? The use of slot wr's has changed the game. it makes OLB's/nickles have to defend the perimeter. Which opens up the run game because the defenders have to play the box and the perimeter.

Edit: Keep in mind the more you have in the backfield (3) the more defenders you are adding to the box. You are not making teams play the whole field when you do that.

 

[23Zone]

This is not a gimicky offense though.. A lot of their schemes and plays are the same as most of college football and HS football. I still think a mixture of Pro sets should be in offensives but keep in mind that we became a great offensive team in 2012 when we decidedto change with modern concepts.

In all fairness, any offense without an actual playbook is a little bit gimmick no matter the justification

 

[money3189]

In all fairness, any offense without an actual playbook is a little bit gimmick no matter the justification

The way they choose to call the plays is gimmicky? or you saying the plays itself? Most of college football use signals and have different forms of tempo. We just choose to go faster than most. And what am I justifying?

 

[OrangePA]

Thats a preference, we enjoyed watching that style through the years. Its what we grown to know and like but it doesnt mean its more effective. You can do a lot more out of shot gun. You have more play fakes options in shot gun along with RPO's. Under center you are just missing the boot action, where your back is turned toward the defense. I love that too and would like to see more of that.

Again, I'm just a fan - I don't know football all that well.

But it seems to me that when the QB is in the shotgun, he has fewer options - fewer opportunities to fool the defense.

The movement of the QB under center requires a great deal of athleticism - it's almost like ballet. And it certainly allows for a greater number and variety of fakes and also allows for RPOs - that was a big part of the freeze option.

When the QB turns his back on the LOS, he is more dangerous in my opinion - though it may make the position more difficult to master.

 

[money3189]

Again, I'm just a fan - I don't know football all that well.

But it seems to me that when the QB is in the shotgun, he has fewer options - fewer opportunities to fool the defense.

The movement of the QB under center requires a great deal of athleticism - it's almost like ballet. And it certainly allows for a greater number and variety of fakes and also allows for RPOs - that was a big part of the freeze option.

When the QB turns his back on the LOS, he is more dangerous in my opinion - though it may make the position more difficult to master.

A QB that has his back turned is more dangerous? A QB that is facing the defense and has the ability to hand off, keep it or throw it. All within 2 or 3 seconds. That puts defenses in serious conflicts.

 

[OrangePA]

How can a QB that has his back turned be more dangerous? A QB that is facing the defense and has the ability to hand off, keep it or throw it. All within 2 or 3 seconds. That puts defenses in serious conflicts.

Because the defense can't gauge where he is going or what he will do with the ball - play action is just not as effective in the shot gun - and less effective in the pistol - as compared to the movement that occurs when the QB rotates after taking the snap while under center.

If the defense can't see, the QB is more dangerous.

Having said that, I recognize that playing under center is more difficult for a QB.

I suspect that we see young QBs playing at a higher level in the NFL because the shot gun makes the position easier to play.

In the old days, the conventional wisdom was that it took QBs five years to master the position in the NFL.

Now, we see rookies playing really early and really well - Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, Tua, and Lamar Jackson.

I believe these young QBs are effective early is because they are not being asked to master the position in the same way that Terry Bradshaw or Peyton Manning had to master the position.

Just my opinion.

 

[Orangefizz]

Football is cyclical. The option comes ,goes and comes back. So does the middle guard/nose tackle. The Wildcat is single wing football. If nobody runs it, the defense won't be prepared for it. And it fits our personnel.

YES YES YES; let’s get ahead of the “new” vintage offense

 

[money3189]

Because the defense can't gauge where he is going or what he will do with the ball - play action is just not as effective in the shot gun - and less effective in the pistol - as compared to the movement that occurs when the QB rotates after taking the snap while under center.

If the defense can't see, the QB is more dangerous.

Having said that, I recognize that playing under center is more difficult for a QB.

I suspect that we see young QBs playing at a higher level in the NFL because the shot gun makes the position easier to play.

In the old days, the conventional wisdom was that it took QBs five years to master the position in the NFL.

Now, we see rookies playing really early and really well - Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, Tua, and Lamar Jackson.

I believe these young QBs are effective early is because they are not being asked to master the position in the same way that Terry Bradshaw or Peyton Manning had to master the position.

Just my opinion.

Wait, you're talking about play action from shot gun? Yes I agree with that, I thought you were talking about offensive scheme as a whole from the shot gun position.

The game has evolved. As much as I like PA pass from under center. It is not the only form of deception now. There are more ways to deceive a defense when you are facing them. That’s why most teams run spread in college and it’s why NFL teams are going to them more. Shot gun allows you to choose the right play as you watch the defense react. You can't get more deceptive than that.

I can tell you right now that the kids coming up now are playing way more football than guys did back then. They are more advanced at a early age now. The things they know and what they can do amazes me. A lot more than we knew growing up. The mechanics and skill level are much more polished because they have personal trainers, developmental groups, year around 7v7 events, and camps etc.

 

[23Zone]

The way they choose to call the plays is gimmicky? or you saying the plays itself? Most of college football use signals and have different forms of tempo. We just choose to go faster than most. And what am I justifying?

No, what I am saying is they literally have no playbook. Ohana afraid of opponents getting their hands on it.

 

[TheCusian]

No, what I am saying is they literally have no playbook. Ohana afraid of opponents getting their hands on it.

so you’re pro-trapper keeper

(There are plays and different ways to call the plays and honestly this is CFB in 2020. Huddles and complex playbooks have been out for 15 years)

 

[money3189]

No, what I am saying is they literally have no playbook. Ohana afraid of opponents getting their hands on it.

Paper playbooks? Thats still a thing? Im sure they have plays on their hudl account with scheme explanation, assignments and signals. Thats what we have. Im sure most schools do.

 

[Millhouse]

Again, I'm just a fan - I don't know football all that well.

But it seems to me that when the QB is in the shotgun, he has fewer options - fewer opportunities to fool the defense.

The movement of the QB under center requires a great deal of athleticism - it's almost like ballet. And it certainly allows for a greater number and variety of fakes and also allows for RPOs - that was a big part of the freeze option.

When the QB turns his back on the LOS, he is more dangerous in my opinion - though it may make the position more difficult to master.

I think under center just feels familiar and right and we invent justifications for a feeling. But why have people running backwards while looking at the defense too close and tangling up feet. It’s just way easier in shotgun. So many things in this goofy sport take so long to get right that we trust that the wrong way makes sense

 

[SWC75]

You talking a FB/TB I formation? How much more deception can you have in that set in comparison to two 21 personnel in shotgun? The use of slot wr's has changed the game. it makes OLB's/nickles have to defend the perimeter. Which opens up the run game because the defenders have to play the box and the perimeter.

Edit: Keep in mind the more you have in the backfield (3) the more defenders you are adding to the box. You are not making teams play the whole field when you do that.

You have sweeps, which we don't ru n and passes to the HB out of the backfield. You have faking to one running back and giving it to the other. You have RPOs with the quarterback. You have draw plays and screen passes. What we have now if the same guy hitting one of 2-3 holes in the line.

 

[GoSU96]

Because the defense can't gauge where he is going or what he will do with the ball - play action is just not as effective in the shot gun - and less effective in the pistol - as compared to the movement that occurs when the QB rotates after taking the snap while under center.

If the defense can't see, the QB is more dangerous.

Having said that, I recognize that playing under center is more difficult for a QB.

I suspect that we see young QBs playing at a higher level in the NFL because the shot gun makes the position easier to play.

In the old days, the conventional wisdom was that it took QBs five years to master the position in the NFL.

Now, we see rookies playing really early and really well - Joe Burrow, Kyler Murray, Tua, and Lamar Jackson.

I believe these young QBs are effective early is because they are not being asked to master the position in the same way that Terry Bradshaw or Peyton Manning had to master the position.

Just my opinion.

the game has changed. The speed of kids playing defense has compressed the time to execute a play

 

[GoSU96]

You have sweeps, which we don't ru n and passes to the HB out of the backfield. You have faking to one running back and giving it to the other. You have RPOs with the quarterback. You have draw plays and screen passes. What we have now if the same guy hitting one of 2-3 holes in the line.

uh, they have run a lot of outside zone, which has actually been their most effective run play, some tosses, and jet sweeps.

 

[tipphill]

There are lots of big uglies in central and western NY.

1000 likes

 

[TheCusian]

uh, they have run a lot of outside zone, which has actually been their most effective run play, some tosses, and jet sweeps.

Yep, weirdly we’ve been experimenting with all kinds of plays that haven’t been in the offense this year with a new OC and less to play for

but no one is noticing - our complaints haven’t caught up to reality yet

 

[IthacaBarrel]

No, what I am saying is they literally have no playbook. Ohana afraid of opponents getting their hands on it.

Good lord.

 

[PatMark]

No, what I am saying is they literally have no playbook. Ohana afraid of opponents getting their hands on it.

Have heard this from multiple players.