Minnesota is what I expected us to do

[orangecuse]

Did you see the heisman speech? Sounds like Coach O was a big part of the recruiting process and he did not just land on his doorstep

Indeed. We can play that game all day long and twice on Sundays. We don't have to look too far to say that same thing in regards to last years 10 wins and Babers either then. See Dungey.

 

[Bayside44]

Did you see the heisman speech? Sounds like Coach O was a big part of the recruiting process and he did not just land on his doorstep

To the poster's point, Eddie O wasn't going to do here compared to what's happening at LSU.

 

[Chip]

To the poster's point, Eddie O wasn't going to do here compared to what's happening at LSU.

And I doubt he would have done here what Dino did last year.

Assuming that actually happened. I'm not sure anymore.

 

[RF2044]

Definitely important to understand Minnesota's path compared to ours. they were lousy for a time after firing mason, and brought jerry kill to implement a system that would enable them to be competitive. Like us, they're never going to be able to out-recruit the powerhouses in their conference like Ohio state, Penn state, Michigan, etc. So they needed to do a good job of identifying talent and coaching it up. Kill took a struggling program, scheduled a weak out of conferenc slate every year to pad their win total, and got them to the point where they were consistent bowl team. Wins begat better recruits, which in turn begat more wins.

The team that Fleck took over is far different and was far further along the "rehab" developmental curve than what Babers took over here coming off the Shafer debacle.

We desperately need to get back to a bowl next year. With the improvement shown on the offensive line, and the further maturation of davido, that seems likely. And then we need to follow it up with another bowl campaign. And then another.

Need to take the next step - consistency.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And yet, correct me if I'm wrong, with all of that, Eddie O wanted the head gig here after Shafer was fired, but SU said thanks, but no thanks.

yeah but Eddie O is regarded as probably one of the best recruiters in the history of college football. Lets not get carried away here. Also said that this is where he learned to recruit because if you can recruit at Syracuse you can recruit anywhere.

 

[orangecuse]

yeah but Eddie O is regarded as probably one of the best recruiters in the history of college football. Lets not get carried away here. Also said that this is where he learned to recruit because if you can recruit at Syracuse you can recruit anywhere.

That's what coach O keeps telling his 'ol bud Edsall over at UConn.

 

[CIL]

He's recruited at QB wayyyyyyy better than we have. They also have nfl talent at skill positions that we would trade positions with.

He had a similar rebuild to do at Wake that Dino had at SU and has a 2 year head start. His first two were bad at 3-9, 3-9 but he had a plan and has stuck to it.

Their last 4 seasons:

7-6, 8-5, 7-6, 9-3

Ours:

4-8, 4-8, 10-3, 5-7

I see you what you did there, although, I’m not sure you do. So Clawson’s first 2 seasons were 3-9, and then you included his subsequent 4 years.

If you think about it, Dino’s 4-8 first two years were better than Wake’s. I’d say 10-3 and 5-7 are pretty close to on par with Wake.

 

[orlandoorange]

How many schools that don't have the advantage of a domed stadium were still able to recruit a QB over the last couple of years?


You can blame a lot of things on lack of this or lack of that, but not being able to get a kid that throws the ball to want to play in a fast paced passing offense has got to raise an eyebrow or two.

 

[Ozcuse]

I see you what you did there, although, I’m not sure you do. So Clawson’s first 2 seasons were 3-9, and then you included his subsequent 4 years.

If you think about it, Dino’s 4-8 first two years were better than Wake’s. I’d say 10-3 and 5-7 are pretty close to on par with Wake.

I do know what I did and that's why I posted it as I thought it would be disingenuous to only list his last 4 years.

Both of their first two years were pretty bad. Not much difference between 4-8 and 3-9. Clawson has had more of a consistent rise which has been partially due to not being completely screwed if QB1 was injured.

 

[NKR1978]

Didn't Coyle hire Dino?

What am I missing? Is he recruiting for Minnesota? Wildhack better start visiting those living rooms!

Seriously, all I know is that Coyle hired us a great coach and he hired a great coach at Minnesota. We had a great 2018 and took a step back this year. I'm sure if we were all being honest we would have been less shocked. The early part of the season was a disaster, but instead of throwing in the towel they coached and played better and at least showed some life at the end of the year. The last play of the year is an all-time type play if it didn't end a 5-7 season.

I have some hope for next year, and just hope we can get better on the OL and TD continues to approve. We can be a 7-8 win team next year.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I do know what I did and that's why I posted it as I thought it would be disingenuous to only list his last 4 years.

Both of their first two years were pretty bad. Not much difference between 4-8 and 3-9. Clawson has had more of a consistent rise which has been partially due to not being completely screwed if QB1 was injured.

Was the back up this year that bad? I didn't think he was horrible. Sure TD was solid last year in a back up role. Mahoney he inherited his first year and the 2nd year I guess you could make some type of claim

 

[TheCusian]

With Dave Clawson's players.

he got us to 2nd in the ACC with 90% his players

this argument is not a thing

 

[TheCusian]

So aside from the winning seasons and bowl games and 400 million investment - why can’t we recruit like them, we cold too

this is the thread

 

[cuse309]

This is why the argument about location and weather doesn't hold any weight

Still holds weight. The weather in Minnesota is nearly as bad as it is here, but the city of Minneapolis is light years more attractive to kids than Syracuse is.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Glancing at ESPN's Top 50 recruiting rankings, one thing sticks out for sure and that is that 45 out of the 50 schools are state vs. private. ND tops the private's at #13, followed by Miami (19), Stanford (22), Northwestern (35) and Baylor at 50.

NW at #35 was surprising to me. Is it unrealistic to ever find SU near that ranking ever in the future? I'm aware that they recently dumped some serious coin in that stunning IPF, etc.

I think realistically we can get recruiting classes around there, top 40 overall would be my goal. A few years of those classes would give the program good depth at every position

 

[Cusefan78]

Still holds weight. The weather in Minnesota is nearly as bad as it is here, but the city of Minneapolis is light years more attractive to kids than Syracuse is.

The weather is worse. Last two year I was there in October and there was snow. Temps are way worse. Last week it was -20. I do agree the city is light years better then Syracuse. Heck St. Paul is light years better.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Indoor Practice Facility - DONE
Competitive pay and contract extensions for head coach and assistants - CHECK
Dome Renovations - YUP
Locker Room Renovations - ALL SET
Manley Field House Renovations - OLD NEWS
Inclusion in a Power 5 conference - YOU BETCHA

Sooo...what's the latest excuse as to why Syracuse Football is not competitive and can't recruit?

give it time someone will figure out a new list

 

[BomberOrange]

He's recruited at QB wayyyyyyy better than we have. They also have nfl talent at skill positions that we would trade positions with.

He had a similar rebuild to do at Wake that Dino had at SU and has a 2 year head start. His first two were bad at 3-9, 3-9 but he had a plan and has stuck to it.

Their last 4 seasons:

7-6, 8-5, 7-6, 9-3

Ours:

4-8, 4-8, 10-3, 5-7

I like what Clawson has done at Wake but let’s take your stats and compare apples to apples.


Clawson 3-9,3-9, 7-6, 8-5 for a total of: 21-29

Dino: 4-8, 4-8, 10-3, 5-7 for a total of: 23-26

Granted they didn’t have a “two steps back” kind of year but let’s see what Dino’s plan is in two more years and see how they measure up.

 

[UpstateSM]

so we might as well get out of the biz?

If you’re saying we should drop to FCS and win the next ten titles let’s do it

 

[hungrychuck]

If you’re saying we should drop to FCS and win the next ten titles let’s do it

If we were to drop (which is silly of course), we'd be lucky to win one of the next 10.

 

[elimunelson]

Could it simply be that PJ Fleck is a better coach and recruiter than Babers? Sometimes it’s the simple answer vs the one that surrounds itself with aesthetics. Don’t sleep on Syracuse as a campus. It’s a beautiful campus much better than some of those land grant mega mall campuses.

 

[TheCusian]

Could it simply be that PJ Fleck is a better coach and recruiter than Babers? Sometimes it’s the simple answer vs the one that surrounds itself with aesthetics. Don’t sleep on Syracuse as a campus. It’s a beautiful campus much better than some of those land grant mega mall campuses.

Recruiter? Yes.

I don’t know who you judge coaching without including recruiting. Maybe look at year 1 and 2?

 

[007]

Definitely important to understand Minnesota's path compared to ours. they were lousy for a time after firing mason, and brought jerry kill to implement a system that would enable them to be competitive. Like us, they're never going to be able to out-recruit the powerhouses in their conference like Ohio state, Penn state, Michigan, etc. So they needed to do a good job of identifying talent and coaching it up. Kill took a struggling program, scheduled a weak out of conferenc slate every year to pad their win total, and got them to the point where they were consistent bowl team. Wins begat better recruits, which in turn begat more wins.

The team that Fleck took over is far different and was far further along the "rehab" developmental curve than what Babers took over here coming off the Shafer debacle.

We desperately need to get back to a bowl next year. With the improvement shown on the offensive line, and the further maturation of davido, that seems likely. And then we need to follow it up with another bowl campaign. And then another.

Need to take the next step - consistency.

Good post. I think many here tend to underestimate our long standing history of losing and the negative recruiting from other programs. We are 39 games under .500 since the 2005 season - even with a 10 win season - and have been to 4 bowls in the last 15 years. During that span, we have averaged approximately 7.5 losses per season. I would guess those stats are hammered home to recruits when we are going up against other programs.

Now, we followed up a 10-3 break out season by going 5-7, giving up the most sacks in the P5, and allowing many offenses to set their historical highs in points or rushing yardage or...

We desperately need to string together wining seasons and bowl appearances. I believe (hope is maybe a better word) a significant uptick in recruiting will follow.

 

[OrangeDW]

Still holds weight. The weather in Minnesota is nearly as bad as it is here, but the city of Minneapolis is light years more attractive to kids than Syracuse is.

Kids don’t care about the city. Most of these schools aren’t even in cities. There’s no good football programs in NY, Philly, Boston, DC, Charlotte, Denver, Chicago, etc.

 

[FasterCuse]

Indoor Practice Facility - DONE
Competitive pay and contract extensions for head coach and assistants - CHECK
Dome Renovations - YUP
Locker Room Renovations - ALL SET
Manley Field House Renovations - OLD NEWS
Inclusion in a Power 5 conference - YOU BETCHA

Sooo...what's the latest excuse as to why Syracuse Football is not competitive and can't recruit?

The one thing I have heard, which needs to be addressed, is housing for student athletes is really sub par. I agree with your underlying point though, the AD has put in the effort to try and be competitive with other P5 schools in our peer group. There really shouldn't be any excuses for not getting the job done.