NBA Thread 2019-20 Season

[OrangeDW]

I don't think I can get there with Melo. Dirk was just way more efficient scoring and it's just hard for me to see him anchoring a title level team with his efficiency numbers.

The very frustrating thing is in 2013 it seemed like the Knicks had unlocked something with spreading the court and playing Melo at the 4 and then they just...stopped doing it.



Sure but I was more thinking of the 15 and 16 teams that won 140 games in 2 years and were one game away from back to back titles without KD. You flip Melo and Green and I don't think there's any chance of that happening.

Dirk was special for sure. I don’t pay as much attention to efficiency but would guess Melo was similar to ‘09 ‘10 Kobe?

Denver pushed the Lakers in 09, and Melo and Kobe went at it. Lakers front line was monstrous though. Pau, Odom(so underrated), and young Bynum(especially in ‘10). Lakers had the better team.

I don’t think the Knicks could’ve ever beaten the Heat, but it’s a shame Amare was never really healthy and at the top of his game to team with Melo. That duo with one good guard would’ve been tough.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I responded in the other thread already with what I think is the national consensus. My opinion is that if you're picking a guy to build a team around, Melo is more capable of that than Draymond is. If you have a team put together and want someone that can blend in and take it to the next level, I think Draymond is the better choice.

I think Melo is the better individual player. I do think that people could argue (and I'm not entirely sure they're wrong) that if you're starting a team from scratch, Draymond might be the better choice because Melo isn't good enough to actually build a team around so you could just take Draymond while trying to find an actual star through other means. I'm not entirely sure I buy that...I think Melo could have won big in the NBA if he had better teams around him.

Like I said, Melo, to me, is the better individual player. I don't think it's laughable to prefer Draymond though. They're both likely Hall of Famers IMO (though Melo is a lock whereas it's much more debatable with Draymond, especially with the way he seems to be declining).

Green should not sniff the hall of fame. Career 9/7/5. Perfect role player sure. Above average defender sure. Not even close to a good enough defender to get into the hall just based on that.

 

[Melancer46]

Green should not sniff the hall of fame. Career 9/7/5. Perfect role player sure. Above average defender sure. Not even close to a good enough defender to get into the hall just based on that.

I think it'll depend on if he's able to rebound from the past couple disappointing years. At the end of the day, 3 time champion, DPOY, 5-time All Defense, 2-time All-NBA...if he has a strong end to his career, he'll have a shot at making it.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think it'll depend on if he's able to rebound from the past couple disappointing years. At the end of the day, 3 time champion, DPOY, 5-time All Defense, 2-time All-NBA...if he has a strong end to his career, he'll have a shot at making it.

If he’s in, I want my guy Michael Cooper in!!

 

[Day2]

I think it'll depend on if he's able to rebound from the past couple disappointing years. At the end of the day, 3 time champion, DPOY, 5-time All Defense, 2-time All-NBA...if he has a strong end to his career, he'll have a shot at making it.

Then Michael Cooper should be in the HOF.

 

[Day2]

If he’s in, I want my guy Michael Cooper in!!

Didn’t see this until after I replied, lol.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lol Draymond Green. Melo took the Nuggets to 60 wins and the WCF in a loaded Western Conference. Trade them and the Nuggets win 45 games maybe. 25 year old kids who haven’t watched the NBA prior to 2010 need to shut it.

 

[Alsacs]

Better player Al Horford or Draymond Green?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Better player Al Horford or Draymond Green?

Al Horford. Very easy for me.

 

[Newhouser]

Good points for sure. If nothing else is known, who are you taking green or melo? It’s just so absurd to even ask that question. One is top 15 in scoring ever!!!!

If Draymond was on any other team in the league nobody would know who he is.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think it'll depend on if he's able to rebound from the past couple disappointing years. At the end of the day, 3 time champion, DPOY, 5-time All Defense, 2-time All-NBA...if he has a strong end to his career, he'll have a shot at making it.

That’s fair. I should have said right now, no way.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Carmelo Anthony is basically the Alex English of this era. Draymond Green has a similarity score on nba reference similar to Charles Smith. I can’t believe people in this thread are playing devils advocate to be edgy. Stop trying to overthink basketball. Melo won 50 plus four seasons in a row in the west. What do you actually think Draymond is doing as a best player on a team?

 

[Alsacs]

That’s fair. I should have said right now, no way.

I mean Draymond’s resume is basically the same as Dennis Rodman’s.
A ton of rings.
A couple all-NBA seasons
Won a DPOY award.
Have a couple of all-star seasons.
Multiple all-NBA defense seasons.

Never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th offensive threat and do all the dirty work.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I mean Draymond’s resume is basically the same as Dennis Rodman’s.
A ton of rings.
A couple all-NBA seasons
Won a DPOY award.
Have a couple of all-star seasons.
Multiple all-NBA defense seasons.

Never be anything more than a 3rd or 4th offensive threat and do all the dirty work.

Rodman has double the win shares Draymond has and Draymond is already on the decline.

 

[Alsacs]

Melo’s biggest mistake was taking the 5 year max extension without an opt out in the summer of 2007.
LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh all took 5 year extensions as well but had opt out player options after year 3.

They did this so they could get paid in 2007 and then get paid again in 2010 and all be FAs together.
Whomever was Melo’s agent was screwed him.
Then he got dealt to Knicks in 2011 before the lockout and forced the Knicks to overpay to acquire him and gut their depth and cap space.

It killed his chances to win. The lockout screwed his career because he doesn’t worry about getting paid before economics change if he didn’t worry about that and the Knicks have more leverage.

In the summer of 2014 I don’t think he was wrong for turning down LA or Chicago though.

 

[Alsacs]

Rodman has double the win shares Draymond has and Draymond is already on the decline.

Must be because of Rodman’s rebounding.
The guy just became obsessed with rebounding the second half of his career cause looking at his reference page his numbers outside of rebounding remind me of Green.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Must be because of Rodman’s rebounding.
The guy just became obsessed with rebounding the second half of his career cause looking at his reference page his numbers outside of rebounding remind me of Green.

The rebounding numbers are absolutely huge though. 13 a game for his career, 5 offensive.

 

[Knicks411]

Carmelo Anthony is basically the Alex English of this era. Draymond Green has a similarity score on nba reference similar to Charles Smith. I can’t believe people in this thread are playing devils advocate to be edgy. Stop trying to overthink basketball. Melo won 50 plus four seasons in a row in the west. What do you actually think Draymond is doing as a best player on a team?

Fair enough, I mostly agree, but similarity score is the kind of thing that will underrate Green, who made his money, to so speak, on defense, passing, and versatility. His raw box score numbers will never look super impressive.

If you're starting a team, for sure, Melo is going to raise your floor and make you pretty good. On an already good team looking to become great, Green would scale a lot better. (And maybe thats just a nice way of saying he's not a great scorer, if you want to take the other side of it) A point against Green, as was mentioned above, he may be declining pretty young. (He's probably not in the best shape)

Dirk was special for sure. I don’t pay as much attention to efficiency but would guess Melo was similar to ‘09 ‘10 Kobe?

Denver pushed the Lakers in 09, and Melo and Kobe went at it. Lakers front line was monstrous though. Pau, Odom(so underrated), and young Bynum(especially in ‘10). Lakers had the better team.

I don’t think the Knicks could’ve ever beaten the Heat, but it’s a shame Amare was never really healthy and at the top of his game to team with Melo. That duo with one good guard would’ve been tough.

Kobe 08-10 vs Melo is a pretty good one, from just eyeballing it; Kobe was slightly (like slightly) more efficient, and got a few more assists. Really not a huge difference though, so maybe I was underselling Melo there. The big difference I guess was from 08-10 the Lakers were basically a top 5 defense every year as well, which Kobe did contribute to (though maybe not quite as much as his string of first team All defense would have you believe)

The Knicks really did have something going in 2012 and 2013 I doubt they beat Miami either, but if they had been able to fully embrace some of the smaller lineups (and that includes Melo, I dont think he liked playing the four) they may have been able to get a little ahead of the league with the 3 point explosion and done some real damage in the playoffs.

It's crazy to look at this; in 2013 the Knicks took 35.4% of their shots from 3, had the #3 offense in the league, and won 54 games. Now, taking 35.4% of your shots from 3 would put you in the bottom 5 in the league.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There’s zero doubt in my mind that if Melo gets selected by Detroit like he should have been then he at least has two titles and we are talking about him as a great player who turned a veteran Piston team into an all time great team in the mid 2000’s.

 

[Knicks411]

There’s zero doubt in my mind that if Melo gets selected by Detroit like he should have been then he at least has two titles and we are talking about him as a great player who turned a veteran Piston team into an all time great team in the mid 2000’s.

I will never ever get that pick for Detroit. Of all the teams to pass on Melo for Darko, you have a team that was already good and could use a guy who could help you right away, as opposed to the longer term play.

That said, Larry Brown hates rookies. Especially offensive minded ones.

You really do have to wonder how different his career goes. Without Melo and getting a total zero from Darko, they were still in the conf finals every year through 2008

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I will never ever get that pick for Detroit. Of all the teams to pass on Melo for Darko, you have a team that was already good and could use a guy who could help you right away, as opposed to the longer term play.

That said, Larry Brown hates rookies. Especially offensive minded ones.

You really do have to wonder how different his career goes. Without Melo and getting a total zero from Darko, they were still in the conf finals every year through 2008

Larry Brown is lucky he got that championship.

I'm convinced Rick Carlisle was going to get the Pistons over the hump.

In fact, Rick Carlisle is an overlooked coaching great.

 

[Briancuse]

I'm not a fan of Wiseman personally; it's a waste to take a big man like him at the top of the draft IMO. At any rate, they're pretty much set with Valanciunas and Clarke in the front court; they desperately need help on the wings. I don't think there's an obvious fit for Memphis in this draft honestly...maybe Devin Vassell or something.

I'd rather have edwards.

 

[Alsacs]

I will never ever get that pick for Detroit. Of all the teams to pass on Melo for Darko, you have a team that was already good and could use a guy who could help you right away, as opposed to the longer term play.

That said, Larry Brown hates rookies. Especially offensive minded ones.

You really do have to wonder how different his career goes. Without Melo and getting a total zero from Darko, they were still in the conf finals every year through 2008

They had Tayshaun Prince was the logic.

They could have buried rookie Melo on their bench and they likely win the 2004 title still.
Then Melo gives them a bench scorer in 2005 when they lost game 7 to San Antonio where if they had Melo in the regular season they could get the one seed and have HCA.
They also lost game 7 because they couldn’t score.

Such a waste of a pick that was a godsend.
They could had Melo, Chris Bosh or Dwayne Wade.

Melo by 2007 and 2008 probably is the scorer that puts the Pistons in the Finals those years.

 

[Alsacs]

Larry Brown had LeBron James and Carmelo on the 2004 Olympic team and he played Shawn Marion and RIchard Jefferson way more minutes.

 

[MikeSU02]

Thank you. He was a perfect fit in a perfect situation.

got a little animated in my response, but Draymond, while a very good player, landed in the perfect role. Nothing against him, but Melo was legit #1 and isa first ballot HoFer.