NBA Thread 2022-23 Season

[shandeezy7]

I've been a Harden doubter since SU beat his ASU Sun Devils in the 2009 2nd round. I hadn't watched a minute of ASU that year and remember thinking all game "this dude is a lottery lock, really?"

Much like that NCAAT game, dude disappeared in a big winner-take-all spot.

 

[Knicks411]

That's very possible. IMO Knicks won't move Randle. Guys who put up 25 and 10 in the regular season are very few. I think it's more likely they move RJ and Obi to get a SF that's a better outside/3 pt threat. Then add depth to get some other 3 pt shooters (not stars) as rotation pieces. I believe they sign Hart. If this is what Randle is in postseason play they just need to have other perimeter pieces so they are not so reliant on Randle to be the #2 option. I know Thibs would love to get KAT and he would love to get to MSG. But I don't know there is a match with the T Wolves if Randle is off the table.

I dunno about this. Thibs is obsessed with having a big man who can protect the rim, and KAT is a lot of things, but he is not a defensive player.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I've been a Harden doubter since SU beat his ASU Sun Devils in the 2009 2nd round. I hadn't watched a minute of ASU that year and remember thinking all game "this dude is a lottery lock, really?"

Doubter in what capacity? if they redraft 2009, he goes 2nd not 3rd and Curry goes first. Unless you would rather have Thabeet at 2?

Harden has stunk in many big moments throughout the playoffs but he's still an MVP, all NBA type and a 1st ballot hall of famer. He also has never really taken great care of himself and it shows at times

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Doubter in what capacity? if they redraft 2009, he goes 2nd not 3rd and Curry goes first. Unless you would rather have Thabeet at 2?

Harden has stunk in many big moments throughout the playoffs but he's still an MVP, all NBA type and a 1st ballot hall of famer. He also has never really taken great care of himself and it shows at times

He’s played a crap ton of minutes in his career and never went the “load management” route. Until the last couple years he was never injured . He’s just got too many miles for his type of game to be consistently there over a series.

 

[shandeezy7]

He’s played a crap ton of minutes in his career and never went the “load management” route. Until the last couple years he was never injured . He’s just got too many miles for his type of game to be consistently there over a series.

Plus he's the floppiest flopper in a league of floppers.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Plus he's the floppiest flopper in a league of floppers.

Hey I get it, in his prime he drew a ton of questionable fouls, it wasn't always fun to watch and people can take issue with a lot of it but he has had a hell of an NBA career. He exploited the rules and made a killing doing it. He has come up small in many big moments in the playoffs but he played a TON of minutes over the years and was a top offensive player for many years with the Rockets.

He never load managed, never got himself into elite NBA shape and paid the price when it came to deep runs in the playoffs but like I said his resume is definitely first ballot hall of famer worthy.

 

[OrangeFoo]

That's very possible. IMO Knicks won't move Randle. Guys who put up 25 and 10 in the regular season are very few. I think it's more likely they move RJ and Obi to get a SF that's a better outside/3 pt threat. Then add depth to get some other 3 pt shooters (not stars) as rotation pieces. I believe they sign Hart. If this is what Randle is in postseason play they just need to have other perimeter pieces so they are not so reliant on Randle to be the #2 option. I know Thibs would love to get KAT and he would love to get to MSG. But I don't know there is a match with the T Wolves if Randle is off the table.

I love Randle as a third piece... but the reality is he is paid like a primary/secondary option. The other issue is that Randle actively seems to hurt the team with is ball stopping and desire to go 1:1. It works in the regular season, but not at all in playoffs.

It’s too bad that Obi is so inconsistent… I’ve never seen such an obviously athletic dude look so uncoordinated when running around. He runs around like he’s drunk or something.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Doubter in what capacity? if they redraft 2009, he goes 2nd not 3rd and Curry goes first. Unless you would rather have Thabeet at 2?

Harden has stunk in many big moments throughout the playoffs but he's still an MVP, all NBA type and a 1st ballot hall of famer. He also has never really taken great care of himself and it shows at times

Based on his strip club presence he seems to be taking care of himself plenty if you know what I mean.

 

[Arangeman]

Harden is 1-9 in elimination games

 

[shandeezy7]

I love Randle as a third piece... but the reality is he is paid like a primary/secondary option. The other issue is that Randle actively seems to hurt the team with is ball stopping and desire to go 1:1. It works in the regular season, but not at all in playoffs.

It’s too bad that Obi is so inconsistent… I’ve never seen such an obviously athletic dude look so uncoordinated when running around. He runs around like he’s drunk or something.

I don't disagree with most of what you said, but I don't think Randle's salary is that far off from a third option on a good team. His contract counts at around 21% of the cap. He'd need to be making another $10M+/year to be getting paid like a #1. D'Angelo Russell is the third highest salary on the Lakers - he's at 25% of the cap. Al Horford is the third highest on the Celtics. He's at 21%. Michael Porter Jr. is at 25%. Jordan Poole and Draymond are both right around 21%. Kyle Lowry is at 23%.

 

[Knicks411]

Harden is 1-9 in elimination games

I eyeballed it myself, I got 9-14. I could've missed a game here or there, but the 2015 Rockets came back from down 3-1 against the Clippers, so thats 3 wins in elimination games right there. He is 1-9 in his last 10, assuming I got everything correct though. (I somehow gave him 2 losses this season in elimination games, which is obviously impossible. So I have him at 9-13, which makes sense, since he's been in the playoffs 13 seasons and you can only lose 1 elimination game a season, per the analytics. If I'm right with 9-13, that actually seems pretty good to me?)

I don't disagree with most of what you said, but I don't think Randle's salary is that far off from a third option on a good team. His contract counts at around 21% of the cap. He'd need to be making another $10M+/year to be getting paid like a #1. D'Angelo Russell is the third highest salary on the Lakers - he's at 25% of the cap. Al Horford is the third highest on the Celtics. He's at 21%. Michael Porter Jr. is at 25%. Jordan Poole and Draymond are both right around 21%. Kyle Lowry is at 23%.

Yeah he is definitely not paid like a primary. He was the 50th highest paid player in the league this year. I don't know if people are still stuck in like 8 years ago or whatever, but $25 million just isn't a massive salary

 

[shandeezy7]

I eyeballed it myself, I got 9-14. I could've missed a game here or there, but the 2015 Rockets came back from down 3-1 against the Clippers, so thats 3 wins in elimination games right there. He is 1-9 in his last 10, assuming I got everything correct though.



Yeah he is definitely not paid like a primary. He was the 50th highest paid player in the league this year. I don't know if people are still stuck in like 8 years ago or whatever, but $25 million just isn't a massive salary

Right, and while his contract is slightly backloaded, it will probably count even less against the cap in the next couple of years as the cap goes up. It's not a terrible contract and actually could have made for a decent trade asset if he didn't now have the stain of two incredibly underwhelming playoff performances under his belt.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I eyeballed it myself, I got 9-14. I could've missed a game here or there, but the 2015 Rockets came back from down 3-1 against the Clippers, so thats 3 wins in elimination games right there. He is 1-9 in his last 10, assuming I got everything correct though.



Yeah he is definitely not paid like a primary. He was the 50th highest paid player in the league this year. I don't know if people are still stuck in like 8 years ago or whatever, but $25 million just isn't a massive salary

Maybe he is outplaying his contract then... I generally like regular season Randle. But even then he was not great in those 5% of regular season possessions where the other team actually tried on D. If they keep him they need to figure out how to space the floor better and get some movement going around him because playoff Randle is no bueno. Trading him for someone like KAT helps Brunson and RJ because he can unclog the middle and allows the Knicks to find a 3 and D at the four or even let Obi try it for a year while they also get a new starter at the two. The only other obvious player to leave is RJ and I think he is a better fit for the other pieces on this team than Randle even if he never becomes a better shooter than he is now.

 

[Madbiker]

I love Randle as a third piece... but the reality is he is paid like a primary/secondary option. The other issue is that Randle actively seems to hurt the team with is ball stopping and desire to go 1:1. It works in the regular season, but not at all in playoffs.

It’s too bad that Obi is so inconsistent… I’ve never seen such an obviously athletic dude look so uncoordinated when running around. He runs around like he’s drunk or something.

Randle's contract is actually pretty inexpensive for an All NBA player at approx. $29M/yr. Most of these guys are $35-50M/yr.

 

[Newhouser]

SU fans have gotten a lot of traction out of beating Harden with a group of guys who's career NBA points don't match one season of Harden's career. He vanishes a lot in big games and has found a loophole that in his prime made him almost unguardable, and oh yeah is filthy rich. Think he would take his career over a second round loss all day every day.

 

[Knicks411]

Maybe he is outplaying his contract then... I generally like regular season Randle. But even then he was not great in those 5% of regular season possessions where the other team actually tried on D. If they keep him they need to figure out how to space the floor better and get some movement going around him because playoff Randle is no bueno. Trading him for someone like KAT helps Brunson and RJ because he can unclog the middle and allows the Knicks to find a 3 and D at the four or even let Obi try it for a year while they also get a new starter at the two. The only other obvious player to leave is RJ and I think he is a better fit for the other pieces on this team than Randle even if he never becomes a better shooter than he is now.

I really have no interest in KAT (take a look at his contract!)

The funny thing about Randle is he should space the floor! He took a ton of threes last year, he averaged 11.5 per 100 possessions. That's a ton! But even so, everything got clogged up in the playoffs. So in the end, I do think they need to shop either him or RJ.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I really have no interest in KAT (take a look at his contract!)

The funny thing about Randle is he should space the floor! He took a ton of threes last year, he averaged 11.5 per 100 possessions. That's a ton! But even so, everything got clogged up in the playoffs. So in the end, I do think they need to shop either him or RJ.

My last Randle post (I promise)... his net rating went from -4.4 in regular season to -20 in the playoffs this year. The gap was actually somehow worse against the Hawks where is net rating from -2 in regular season that year to an astounding -32 in the playoffs. Not sure what it says when your supposed best player has a negative net rating. FWIW just about all of his playoff stats tanked when compared to the regular season... so the stats back the eye test in that he stinks during the playoffs so far in his career.

Julius Randle Advanced Stats - NBA Advanced | FOX Sports

View detailed Advanced Stats for Julius Randle.

www.foxsports.com

 

[OrangeFoo]

My last Randle post (I promise)... his net rating went from -4.4 in regular season to -20 in the playoffs this year. The gap was actually somehow worse against the Hawks where is net rating from -2 in regular season that year to an astounding -32 in the playoffs. Not sure what it says when your supposed best player has a negative net rating. FWIW just about all of his playoff stats tanked when compared to the regular season... so the stats back the eye test in that he stinks during the playoffs so far in his career.

Julius Randle Advanced Stats - NBA Advanced | FOX Sports

View detailed Advanced Stats for Julius Randle.

www.foxsports.com

Just to add on... RJ has better stats than Randle in the playoffs.

 

[Knicks411]

My last Randle post (I promise)... his net rating went from -4.4 in regular season to -20 in the playoffs this year. The gap was actually somehow worse against the Hawks where is net rating from -2 in regular season that year to an astounding -32 in the playoffs. Not sure what it says when your supposed best player has a negative net rating. FWIW just about all of his playoff stats tanked when compared to the regular season... so the stats back the eye test in that he stinks during the playoffs so far in his career.

Julius Randle Advanced Stats - NBA Advanced | FOX Sports

View detailed Advanced Stats for Julius Randle.

www.foxsports.com

Randle has been one of the worst playoff performers in history so far. So I am def not defending him.

I'm a little curious on the FOX advanced ratings though. Per BBref the Knicks were +3 per 100 when he played this regular season, +3.5 when he sat, so if you wanted to net those out you're talking -0.5. But they were +1.3 per 100 when he played in the playoffs and -1.2 with him on the bench.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Randle has been one of the worst playoff performers in history so far. So I am def not defending him.

I'm a little curious on the FOX advanced ratings though. Per BBref the Knicks were +3 per 100 when he played this regular season, +3.5 when he sat, so if you wanted to net those out you're talking -0.5. But they were +1.3 per 100 when he played in the playoffs and -1.2 with him on the bench.

interesting... I'll take a look.

 

[Arangeman]

I eyeballed it myself, I got 9-14. I could've missed a game here or there, but the 2015 Rockets came back from down 3-1 against the Clippers, so thats 3 wins in elimination games right there. He is 1-9 in his last 10, assuming I got everything correct though. (I somehow gave him 2 losses this season in elimination games, which is obviously impossible. So I have him at 9-13, which makes sense, since he's been in the playoffs 13 seasons and you can only lose 1 elimination game a season, per the analytics. If I'm right with 9-13, that actually seems pretty good to me?)



Yeah he is definitely not paid like a primary. He was the 50th highest paid player in the league this year. I don't know if people are still stuck in like 8 years ago or whatever, but $25 million just isn't a massive salary

Ah 1-9 last 10. Heard it on radio

 

[Cusefan0307]

The Knicks aren’t getting Towns. His contract is absurd and he’s already breaking down.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[MikeSU02]

Pretty sure it was Harden or Doc.

And I think Morey picked Harden.

Just speculating based on some rumors.

 

[Melancer46]

Pretty sure it was Harden or Doc.

And I think Morey picked Harden.

Just speculating based on some rumors.

Definitely think Harden was gone if Doc remained. Harden might still be gone, but this helps.

A lot of scary bad options out there for my Bucks right now lol. I'm terrified of who we're going to hire.