NIL

[rrlbees]

We may not go that route, but we will certainly be impacted if we don't.

“ Syracuse” will have a collective. What Im sure SU will not do is tamper with players trying to convince them to transfer.

 

[texascpa]

“ Syracuse” will have a collective. What Im sure SU will not do is tamper with players trying to convince them to transfer.

Tampering, which I'm sure was involved in the Pitt kid case, was not the intention of my comment. It was more about the NIL collective (as you stated) and the enticement that constitutes to keep players and get players to come to SU. T-shirt sales won't do it.

 

[rrlbees]

Tampering, which I'm sure was involved in the Pitt kid case, was not the intention of my comment. It was more about the NIL collective (as you stated) and the enticement that constitutes to keep players and get players to come to SU. T-shirt sales won't do it.

Yep, I know you only meant NIL and not tampering. I threw it in there because it makes NIL even dirtier.

 

[rrlbees]

According to Thamel, Narduzzi called Lincoln Reilly and was pissed. It hasn’t been announced that Addison is even in the portal.

 

[JRHEETER]

According to Thamel, Narduzzi called Lincoln Reilly and was pissed. It hasn’t been announced that Addison is even in the portal.

Wouldn’t it be just hilarious if he didn’t register into the Portal before May 1 deadline

 

[baggerbob]

According to Thamel, Narduzzi called Lincoln Reilly and was pissed. It hasn’t been announced that Addison is even in the portal.

Has anyone thought with the NIL, and roster limits at 85. The schools in the SEC, and Big 10 can legally supplement their rosters with 85 more players if they want.
Also because these players aren't on scholarships, would they have to take classes.

 

[rrlbees]

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

We may not go that route, but we will certainly be impacted if we don't.

Exactly. If SU doesn't go that route they will be left in the dust.

This is a turning point for every major college program right now. Get on board with the current setup and rules and play the "system." Or make the decision that major college athletics and all of the perks and things it can do for a college and city just don't matter "that much" and schools focus on being a college first and the sports/athletic part of things becomes an afterthought

T-CPA you may be right (so be it). But Stern, IMO you have it backwards. Being offered a great education with free tuition, room, board and expenses, on a beautiful campus while playing the game you love ... is a blessing. Trying to score NIL coin while pretending to be a "student athlete" at a pseudo-university to please a bunch of egomaniacal boosters ... and then blowing out a knee, getting cut and having to look for a job with no degree or skills ... that's being left in the dust.

 

[IthacaMatt]

T-CPA you may be right (so be it). But Stern, IMO you have it backwards. Being offered a great education with free tuition, room, board and expenses, on a beautiful campus while playing the game you love ... is a blessing. Trying to score NIL coin while pretending to be a "student athlete" at a pseudo-university to please a bunch of egomaniacal boosters ... and then blowing out a knee, getting cut and having to look for a job with no degree or skills ... that's being left in the dust.

I hate to break it to you, but the "free education" angle stopped being the end game about 10-15 years ago, when all these graduates couldn't get paying jobs better than service industry jobs, and couldn't afford their $100-200K college debt - it's like not having a real career yet, and having to pay a mortgage when it's hard to even find a decent job or an affordable place to live.

That's why entrepreneurship is taking over. College is not an economically good investment. If you're paying your kid's way through a private school, buy them a house instead, and send them to a community college. Seriously. It's a way better investment.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

I hate to break it to you, but the "free education" angle stopped being the end game about 10-15 years ago, when all these graduates couldn't get paying jobs better than service industry jobs, and couldn't afford their $100-200K college debt - it's like not having a real career yet, and having to pay a mortgage when it's hard to even find a decent job or an affordable place to live.

That's why entrepreneurship is taking over. College is not an economically good investment. If you're paying your kid's way through a private school, buy them a house instead, and send them to a community college. Seriously. It's a way better investment.

This misses on all counts. First, your point about student debt is irrelevant, not only because this is a thread about NIL, but because scholarship athletes receive education (room, board and expenses) for free. They don't incur loans. Second, you don't have to "break" it to me that some athletes refuse to attend class, or that over the last couple decades systemic fraud has become a way of life for many B1G/SEC factory schools (you can add UNC to the list). It's only recently, however, that these schools have succeeded - under cover of state NIL laws - in blowing the lid off the NCAA model. Almost overnight, they have turned a century-old amateur sport, in which violations were concealed and often (though unevenly) penalized, into a free agency lottery in which cheating is open, widespread and unchecked. Third, a college degree is obviously much more valuable than no degree - which is what a kid gets if he goes down the NIL path at a D-1 institution, leaves early and doesn't make it (no degree and no pro contract). As you know, this represents the majority of aspirants aiming for the NFL (or NBA for that matter). Better to complete your education, a life-changing gift for those with enough wisdom to take advantage of it.

 

[Stern]

T-CPA you may be right (so be it). But Stern, IMO you have it backwards. Being offered a great education with free tuition, room, board and expenses, on a beautiful campus while playing the game you love ... is a blessing. Trying to score NIL coin while pretending to be a "student athlete" at a pseudo-university to please a bunch of egomaniacal boosters ... and then blowing out a knee, getting cut and having to look for a job with no degree or skills ... that's being left in the dust.

While that is noble and everything you said is not wrong and the sentiment is coming from a good place, trying to compete on Saturdays in football and every other day of the week in other sports, with that attitude won't be successful.

We are in a P5 conference and most of these other schools are out for blood (and if they aren't now they will be soon). I'm sure the attitude at Pittsburgh over the past 72 hours has changed and their attitude towards all of this is changing by the minute. Someone did this to us, ok we now gotta re-stock the cupboard and get someone to take that kids place now to be able to compete.

These other schools will be making sure their kids get big bucks and will be working back channels trying to steal kids from other places and offer them more. If Syracuse wants to take the moral high ground and not do that, it's great. But thinking we will be going to bowl games, be able to compete with these programs (in any sport) is really ignoring the new reality of college sports.

None of this stuff is illegal anymore, taking the moral high ground is just trying to win a boxing match with one arm tied behind your back. You are only hurting yourself.

 

[rrlbees]

While that is noble and everything you said is not wrong and the sentiment is coming from a good place, trying to compete on Saturdays in football and every other day of the week in other sports, with that attitude won't be successful.

We are in a P5 conference and most of these other schools are out for blood (and if they aren't now they will be soon). I'm sure the attitude at Pittsburgh over the past 72 hours has changed and their attitude towards all of this is changing by the minute. Someone did this to us, ok we now gotta re-stock the cupboard and get someone to take that kids place now to be able to compete.

These other schools will be making sure their kids get big bucks and will be working back channels trying to steal kids from other places and offer them more. If Syracuse wants to take the moral high ground and not do that, it's great. But thinking we will be going to bowl games, be able to compete with these programs (in any sport) is really ignoring the new reality of college sports.

None of this stuff is illegal anymore, taking the moral high ground is just trying to win a boxing match with one arm tied behind your back. You are only hurting yourself.

Not tampering isn’t taking the moral high ground. And tampering is illegal. A player has to be in the portal. And big bucks come from big donors who want to give away their money.

 

[Stern]

Not tampering isn’t taking the moral high ground. And tampering is illegal. A player has to be in the portal. And big bucks come from big donors who want to give away their money.

I understand what your saying but I think we are viewing "tampering" differently. This isn't the NFL or any other pro sports league where a player is under contract to a team and no other team (owner, coach, or GM) can talk to him or publically talk about him while he is under contract to another team.

With NIL any person can offer any athlete at any school money for an NIL deal. And if they say, well there is MORE money if you go to this school and leave your current school. Is that tampering? I mean with the way the rule is written I don't believe it is. Is it tampering with a wink-n-nod, yeah probably but by the letter of the rule I'm not so sure.

I honestly don't think there is "tampering" in college sports. I think people are taking the professional sports term and thinking it applies to college and I'm not sure it does.

We will see in time I guess.

 

[baggerbob]

Not tampering isn’t taking the moral high ground. And tampering is illegal. A player has to be in the portal. And big bucks come from big donors who want to give away their money.

Unfortunately tampering might be illegal, but no one is going to enforce it. The NCAA has no power to enforce anything. They have given that away with the basketball FBI scandal. The big schools will do whatever they want.
That's why I said in another thread. Enjoy it now because college football will become a minor league, and the majority of the country will tune out.

 

[rrlbees]

I understand what your saying but I think we are viewing "tampering" differently. This isn't the NFL or any other pro sports league where a player is under contract to a team and no other team (owner, coach, or GM) can talk to him or publically talk about him while he is under contract to another team.

With NIL any person can offer any athlete at any school money for an NIL deal. And if they say, well there is MORE money if you go to this school and leave your current school. Is that tampering? I mean with the way the rule is written I don't believe it is. Is it tampering with a wink-n-nod, yeah probably but by the letter of the rule I'm not so sure.

I honestly don't think there is "tampering" in college sports. I think people are taking the professional sports term and thinking it applies to college and I'm not sure it does.

We will see in time I guess.

Whether anything gets enforced or not is another discussion. But while college athletes aren’t under contract like the pros, it is illegal for any school to contact a player before they are in the portal at which time anyone can contact them. That rule is still on the books.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

While that is noble and everything you said is not wrong and the sentiment is coming from a good place, trying to compete on Saturdays in football and every other day of the week in other sports, with that attitude won't be successful.

We are in a P5 conference and most of these other schools are out for blood (and if they aren't now they will be soon). I'm sure the attitude at Pittsburgh over the past 72 hours has changed and their attitude towards all of this is changing by the minute. Someone did this to us, ok we now gotta re-stock the cupboard and get someone to take that kids place now to be able to compete.

These other schools will be making sure their kids get big bucks and will be working back channels trying to steal kids from other places and offer them more. If Syracuse wants to take the moral high ground and not do that, it's great. But thinking we will be going to bowl games, be able to compete with these programs (in any sport) is really ignoring the new reality of college sports.

None of this stuff is illegal anymore, taking the moral high ground is just trying to win a boxing match with one arm tied behind your back. You are only hurting yourself.

I agree with most of this. Obviously, pay-for-play has been an ongoing problem. And parity has all but disappeared in CFB ... the same teams get the top athletes every year and ride them into the CFBPO's. A similarly unbalanced situation is developing in basketball. But as bad as things have been, there is little doubt that NIL cheating - under cover of legislation from SEC/B1G states - now poses the greatest threat that the NCAA amateur model has ever faced.

THe only solution is for NCAA member institutions that value academics to choose their own path: start a new division ... with amateur rules and legitimate educational requirements for athletes. Let the Georgia and 'Bama crazies pay their coaches 10 million, exempt athletes from classes, field legions of "analysts", and coddle bloodthirsty boosters willing to do anything to secure wins. Yuck. NIL could still be permitted in a new division, with appropriate limitations (that no SEC school will agree to), and amateurism might yet see a resurgence. I like our chances.

 

[rrlbees]

“You’re pretty much ———— if you don’t have the Booster Bank”

NIL, ‘booster banks’ and recruiting wars: For some, it doesn’t add up - Sports Illustrated

Stakeholders across college sports are divided over the benefits of NIL and whether opening the door to big money donors is a good thing.

www.si.com

 

[kcsu]

SU will never be able to compete in football.

 

[MSOrange]

Deion Sanders Says NIL Is ‘Becoming Free Agency,’ Hurting Lower-Funded Schools - Sports Illustrated

Sanders: “It’s just another way, to me, to keep the schools that don’t have the proper funding down.”

www.si.com

 

[Admiral Koga]

Sadly, I agree with most of this. Obviously, covert compensation of major college athletes has been a problem for some time. And parity has all but disappeared in CFB ... the same teams get the top athletes and appear in the CFBPO's year after year. A similar situation is developing in basketball. There is little doubt that NIL - backed by legislation from SEC/B1G states - is every bit the existential threat to the NCAA model (amateur college athletics) that I and others decried the minute Florida enacted the first law.

But as chaotic as things seem, there are still rules in force (bylaw 12): 1) schools can't pay kids directly, and 2) NIL cannot be used to entice enrollment or reward performance. Whether the NCAA has the ability or inclination to enforce these rules remains to be seen. That's where your question about what's "legal" or "illegal" has relevance.

I would also point out that NCAA member institutions can still choose their own path: follow the madness or start a new division ... with amateur rules and legitimate academic programs. Let the Georgia and 'Bama crazies pay their coaches 10 million, give athletes an educational hall pass, field legions of "analysts", coddle bloodthirsty boosters willing to do anything to buy wins. Yuck. NIL can still be paid to athletes with appropriate limitations (that no SEC school will agree to). Amateurism may yet survive. I like our chances.

But why would they start a new division? Right now, they can do what they want. Why would they want any rules? Would USC/Bama/UGa want to create a situation where they CANT poach 'lesser' teams rosters? Or have any enforceable rule regarding schollie limit/roster poaching, etc? I can't see that happening. I can see why the Pitt/Syracuse/BCs would want to separate and let the sharks swim in their pool. But we would never be rid of them...if the big boys want the player...even if they are in a junior division...the sharks will take what they want. At least in the current situation, the money will be better.

College sports is rocketing up the sleaze chart and is about to blow past FIFA and the IOC (if it hasn't already). I think that there will a lot of people like me...I'll watch my team...whether it be streaming or on ACC Network...and nothing else.

 

[IthacaMatt]

SU will never be able to compete in football.

We have a couple years left before we are overrun by the new reality.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This misses on all counts ... a college degree is obviously much more valuable than no degree - Education is a life-changing gift for those with enough wisdom to take advantage of the opportunity.

A college degree is obviously so valuable that 1/3 of kids are currently considering dropping out. Although the article talks about mental stress rather than future debt, that has to be part of their thinking.

Why college kids are dropping out | LinkedIn

A new Gallup survey found that college students are considering withdrawing due to heightened emotional stress, climbing costs of attendance and more.

www.linkedin.com

 

[Consigliere]

While I hate watching the deconstruction of college sports as I grew up with, this will be a fascinating evolution. We can all demonize the NCAA for allowing this to happen, but the NCAA is NOT some third party governing body. It is made up of member institutions, and there are far more "have nots" in its membership than there are powerhouses throwing around billions of dollars. I have to think the have nots, for their own survival, will endeavor to put some guard rails in place around what is happening. If they succeed, will the financially upper echelon schools secede? Will there be court challenges to solidify a system? Will state and federal legislatures see a need to act? How will the tv contracts play into the whole development? Really seems like we are headed to a civil war and I have no clue how it will work out.

 

[kcsu]

Not tampering isn’t taking the moral high ground. And tampering is illegal. A player has to be in the portal. And big bucks come from big donors who want to give away their money.

Does a rule matter if it isnt enforced?

 

[Stern]

But why would they start a new division? Right now, they can do what they want. Why would they want any rules? Would USC/Bama/UGa want to create a situation where they CANT poach 'lesser' teams rosters? Or have any enforceable rule regarding schollie limit/roster poaching, etc? I can't see that happening. I can see why the Pitt/Syracuse/BCs would want to separate and let the sharks swim in their pool. But we would never be rid of them...if the big boys want the player...even if they are in a junior division...the sharks will take what they want. At least in the current situation, the money will be better.

College sports is rocketing up the sleaze chart and is about to blow past FIFA and the IOC (if it hasn't already). I think that there will a lot of people like me...I'll watch my team...whether it be streaming or on ACC Network...and nothing else.

The reason the big boys want to split away, is then they can create a new super-conference and get a NEW TV deal, and split the money up only amongst themselves and not have to share with BC/Syracuse/Pitt/Iowa/Indiana's of the worlds...etc.

Create a new bigger pie, and each school gets a bigger piece of that larger pie. Less people eating that pie.

And they can still poach players away from the lesser schools that won't be an issue.

That is the end game.