Not a well coached team

[SaltLakeOrange]

I think he justs needs to get the team playing hard and there will be no way he will be fired. 5 wins is more than enough, 4 will probably do the trick. Then he gets one more year and has to win 6. If he doesn't win 6 that year, Syracuse will have had 8 out of the last 9 as losing seasons and the fan base will be dead.

It will take an epic meltdown for him to be fired before his contract ends. I mean we need to go 1-10 again. Anything more and it will be used as a way to claim that we are turning the corner. And the main reason he is safe is money. Wildhack does not have the pay off money...

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Good stuff. I don't look at it as defending myself. I dont expect anyone that don't coach or work with kids to understand. Im sure some people are tired of the meathead reactions in this forum so I try to give clarity to those people.

I dont know which post to reply to, so I'll use this one.

Part of the issue is that the team looks so frequently unprepared, and so frequently poorly coached, that it's easy to surmise those last few plays are on the staff as opposed to the players. This staff has little credibility after repeated post bye-week stinkers, and looking thoroughly unprepared 2 or 3 times last year ("no film").

I assume Money is right given his background, but its not a big leap to surmise we look disorganized because we are poorly coached.

 

[griddy]

Strange to remember that the biggest worry a couple years ago on this board was whether we could keep HCDB.
As for that last series, the running play made sense tactically, but not strategically because with so many young players and a reserve QB, clock management is going to be an issue. The NCState time out was a real gift — if Servais was confused, as smart of a player as he is, it must have been chaos. Would have preferred to see Taj or Quelly or one of our TEs get multiple chances on that last series to make a play in the end zone

 

[dan7800]

As a Bills fan, this kind of imperfect football is new to me. I don't know how to react to it.

 

[Red Holzman]

The QB wasn't our only player showing lack of clock/4th down awareness.
We had players who weren't exactly in a hurry to sprint back and lined up for the critical 4th down.
Or maybe they were aware, and just lacked the appropriate engagement/hustle to run another play.
That was already driving me crazy before the Spike Grand Finale!

 

[shu 49]

I dont think it is coaching at all. do you not watching 100 other teams doing the same things every weekend?

I totally disagree. Well coached hs teams don’t do that.

 

[shu 49]

Has nothing to do with coaching there.
[/QUOTE
I know ur a coach and ur experience is vastly better than mine but I feel that was all on the coaches. Either we have no 2 min offense or we never do situational football. That’s coaching. Good or well coached teams don’t do that ever. I almost always agree with ur take but this I respectfully disagree with.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Since when did 4 wins become “competent”? 6 wins if the minimum of being Competent. Everything below that is below average and bad

Did you watch any of these games? I would say that our first two teams (4 wins each) were light years better than this team has showed.

Both of those four-win teams beat a big name - Virginia Tech the first year and Clemson the second. I would chew off your arm for a team simply playing that well again next year.

I think that if you think we are going back to a bowl after crapping the bed so completely, so thoroughly, and in such an embarrassing fashion, you are living on Fantasy Planet, my friend.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Rex should be our 4th or 5th QB. Poor recruiting and development has pushed him up. 5th string QB's that have never been in those situations before tend to panic.

But he's not the 4th or 5th QB. He has been the back-up all year, getting the back-up's portion of reps, and Tommy was hurt in, what, game 5? So he's been getting all the starter's reps since then. He's been in the program long enough that he should understand how to play football. He's probably been playing since he was about 10 years old. He probably started and was a star on his HS football team or he wouldn't have won a scholarship.

So enough with this "oh, he couldn't possibly be ready" stuff. That's "participation trophy" kind of thinking. He should have a much better idea of what to do at the end of the game than he did yesterday.

 

[money3189]

I dont know which post to reply to, so I'll use this one.

Part of the issue is that the team looks so frequently unprepared, and so frequently poorly coached, that it's easy to surmise those last few plays are on the staff as opposed to the players. This staff has little credibility after repeated post bye-week stinkers, and looking thoroughly unprepared 2 or 3 times last year ("no film").

I assume Money is right given his background, but its not a big leap to surmise we look disorganized because we are poorly coached.

Good post and I agree. Credibility is lost. In his 5 years Rex has looked lost everytime he's played a game. Its not a one time thing. He's had unexplainable interceptions and has looked lost when scrambling. At the same time, all the things you mention are correct and its part of a losing culture. The losing culture gives the players the platform to make bad decisions. From previously having a 10 win season Dino knows what a winning culture takes st SU. Its up to him to make the neccessary changes that's going to get him back to that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If you think that’s the case than he should be fired this year no matter what.

this is year 5. This is his team.

all the players are making the same mental mistakes.

When 3 qbs make the same mistakes, when all the wrs don’t run back in a last second situation like yesterday, that’s coaching.

that’s the coaches not teaching situational awareness and letting them do what they want to do.

I know firing Babers will put us back a couple years but keeping him may put us back decades

We don't have the money. After his 10 win season, his pay and his buy-out were jacked sky high. He has 3 years left on his deal, meaning that his buy out is close to $15M, and maybe $20M total for the assistants, if some of them like the coordinators have buy outs, too.

There was a long thread about this a month or so ago.

 

[IthacaMatt]

No I am anticipating 3/4 wins next year then Dino is gone. His EXPECTATION cannot be 4 wins in year 6. He needs to do everything in his power - grad transfers, juco transfers, coaching changes - to get to 6 wins and a bowl or he’s done. I’m sorry we can’t let a poor year five set the bar so low for year 6. It’s put up or shut up time.

So we can count on you for $5M to buy the staff out a year earlier?
Next year doesn't matter - again.
Next year, Wildhack would say, "Last year, with the virus, everything went crazy. This year we expect to stabilize, then in 2022 he needs to make a bowl."
He's getting 2 years, whether you like it or not.
Try to keep up, will you? We don't have the money to fire him.

 

[money3189]

I know ur a coach and ur experience is vastly better than mine but I feel that was all on the coaches. Either we have no 2 min offense or we never do situational football. That’s coaching. Good or well coached teams don’t do that ever. I almost always agree with ur take but this I respectfully disagree with.

You dont have to explain. I get why people may disagree. I respect you brother.

 

[upperdeck]

I totally disagree. Well coached hs teams don’t do that.

yup,,. but there are vastly more teams doing it than not. we have no better or worse game coachinging than 75% of the teams.. teams with better talent get coached poorly all the time but talent hides it better

 

[CousCuse]

Good post and I agree. Credibility is lost. In his 5 years Rex has looked lost everytime he's played a game. Its not a one time thing. He's had unexplainable interceptions and has looked lost when scrambling. At the same time, all the things you mention are correct and its part of a losing culture. The losing culture gives the players the platform to make bad decisions. From previously having a 10 win season Dino knows what a winning culture takes st SU. Its up to him to make the neccessary changes that going to get him back to that.

This is of Dino's doing. I've taken grief for this, but I'll say it again. Last year Welch gave the team a better chance of winning and making a bowl but Dino stuck with the injured Devito and the result was a losing season. So now things are in a downward spiral and I would be surprised if he can stop it.

 

[FloridaFan]

I can’t wait till we don’t make a bowl the next two years and people will still call for dino to get at least a two year extension to build stability

 

[money3189]

But he's not the 4th or 5th QB. He has been the back-up all year, getting the back-up's portion of reps, and Tommy was hurt in, what, game 5? So he's been getting all the starter's reps since then. He's been in the program long enough that he should understand how to play football. He's probably been playing since he was about 10 years old. He probably started and was a star on his HS football team or he wouldn't have won a scholarship.

So enough with this "oh, he couldn't possibly be ready" stuff. That's "participation trophy" kind of thinking. He should have a much better idea of what to do at the end of the game than he did yesterday.

I agree. I blame him for a lot of things but not for Rex running back and forth and not throwing the ball. Hes been around for 5 years and it always look like he doesn’t know what to do. Why didn’t Welch, Mahoney ED not have that same look? Rex has been give those situations over and over again in team sessions. Last practice before every game each coach has a check list of situations in the game and the whole teams goes through it.

 

[syrBossHogg]

I can’t wait till we don’t make a bowl the next two years and people will still call for dino to get at least a two year extension to build stability

I guarantee there will be very few if any supporters of Dino left if that's the case.

 

[Dinkyspond]

I think he justs needs to get the team playing hard and there will be no way he will be fired. 5 wins is more than enough, 4 will probably do the trick. Then he gets one more year and has to win 6. If he doesn't win 6 that year, Syracuse will have had 8 out of the last 9 as losing seasons and the fan base will be dead.

the fan base is already dead, did not capitalize on 10-3, even 2 minor bowls in 19 or 20 would have kept momentum but it is now squandered. We are stuck with this mess until 2023, the year before the contract ends, Syracuse will eat the 2024 year and pay 2 head coaches, the new coach and Asterisk Babers

 

[FloridaFan]

Ask yourself. If babers goes 4-8 or 5-7 next year how many fans actually show up. 20k?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Ask yourself. If babers goes 4-8 or 5-7 next year how many fans actually show up. 20k?

If it is like the 2016 or 2017 4-8 seasons then I think people will show up. If it is like the 2019 5-7 season no one will show up. it isn't the record but the ineptitude one O that will keep people away. No one deserves to watch a product on O like we have the last 22 games.

 

[upperdeck]

watched a couple late games last night.. the discussion was on how they struggled so much on offense because they didnt have oline guys who had played enough. its happening all over. look at Miss st a coach known for his offense can barely move the ball.

 

[CousCuse]

98

watched a couple late games last night.. the discussion was on how they struggled so much on offense because they didnt have oline guys who had played enough. its happening all over. look at Miss st a coach known for his offense can barely move the ball.

It's his first year there and they have less than 50 scholarship players available. His team is competitive.

 

[Scooch]

it’s quite clear from reading through this thread (and watching Money need to defend himself, which he shouldn’t) which people have never worked with young athletes before.

I am not, nor will I ever be a football coach. But I am a coach of HS athletes. Some of them very very good, and some of them not. Some of my best players have panicked in key moments when tensions were high, while some of my weakest who were filling in for injuries or other reasons showed remarkable poise under pressure.

sometimes it doesn’t matter how much you coach a situation into a kid. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how much you yell and scream from the sidelines, sometimes it doesn’t matter how many of their teammates say it before the play. Sometimes the pressure gets to a kid who’s never been there before and they screw the pooch in the moment.

it doesn’t make it excusable and doesn’t make it better. But it is reality.

the bigger issue is that the entire QB room isn’t ready. Rex was recruited over with Amie, who left. Then we missed on a class, panicked and added Summers as a project (who appears to be the most likely kid to be politely asked to transfer out after this season) and last year after bringing in Gilbert pivoted to two project kids in Morgan and Tex. We knew they were projects. But the staff NEEDED them because frankly they had to know the depth was a disaster and they needed to cross their fingers that nothing happened to Tommy, because if either of these kids needed to play it was gonna be ugly.

you might not like it because there are a few freshman out there who are playing, but MOST freshman QBs do NOT play P5 football at a high level in a normal year let alone this messy offseason. Add in that these were guys who should barely have gotten scout team reps this year based on their recruiting status and this is the state you get where a QB like Rex who should be a scout team QB himself, is the best QB option we have and he is forced onto the field into a situation I’d bet he hasn’t been in, during his entire life.

it’s not excusable how it ended yesterday. But some of you have lost rationality or clearly have never worked with kids (or people) in high pressure situations.

Great post.

Obviously, the end of game debacle is predominantly on Rex. He made a series of terrible decisions, and if Montana, Manning and Brady were on the sidelines as special guest QB coaches, I doubt it would have made any difference.

You positioned the bigger picture issues quite well. Rex should be finishing his career at SU as a backup TE. That he isn’t speaks to the depth of the QB recruiting issues here.

 

[Scooch]

also for everyone...

Obviously we don’t think that Dino Babers tells Rex or TD to run out of bounds and not throw it away. Or told Rex to spike it on 4th down.

But it’s obviously apparent he certainly isn’t telling them NOT to do that either. He’s obviously not going over end game situations.

Both qbs look like fish out of water in close end of game situations.

At first I put a lot on TD and said he just isn’t aware but to see Rex do similar things...that’s when you know it’s coaching and not the player. They aren’t being taught what to do.

Eh, I have a lot of issues with this staff, but this isn’t one of them. I’m sure they are coaching the QBs on how they should elude pressure. I suspect the bigger problem is that our QBs aren’t all that good.

I mean, if I trained for a year with the greatest boxing coach of all time, I’d still get my clock cleaned by 54 year old Mike Tyson. Even if I was told to duck.