Not to keep beating a dead horse but (Ticket Sales)

[OttoinGrotto]

One thing I'd add (that Bill Simmons often brings up) is that people have more choices now than ever before.

SU football doesn't just have to compete with being the best game in town, it has to compete against so many other entertainment choices for dollars.

And let's not kid ourselves - we won last year, but we won ugly. For the casual fan seeking entertainment SU football 2010 was just not going to generate much enthusiasm for SU football 2011.

In short, I don't think winning will cure all ills, but I do think winning with style will. You want the fans to fill the Dome and the product better be something people really want to see.

 

[Bayside44]

Gross isnt moving the games for attendance hes moving it for a $$$$ pay day plain and simple.
Honestly do you think SU is going to sell out Giants/Jets stadium for a game against USC? I know those out of town fans love to rag on the locals for not going to games but when the games get moved or Syracuse is playing away near them how many of them actually go to the games and drum up support from there friends in the area. Will you be attending the USC game next year?

Gross is playing football games at the Meadowlands for two reasons:

1. Guaranteed Gate
2. Many of the big boys won't make the trip north in this day and age.

I guess USC could've / should've considering...but it's an issue for a lot of the bigger schools. Why put a potential loss on the schedule and not get the revenue hit / exposure?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Gross is playing football games at the Meadowlands for two reasons:

1. Guaranteed Gate
2. Many of the big boys won't make the trip north in this day and age.

I guess USC could've / should've considering...but it's an issue for a lot of the bigger schools. Why put a potential loss on the schedule and not get the revenue hit / exposure?

Not sure I am buying #2, theres never been a problem getting the big boys to come into the dome. Isnt Penn State a 1-1-1 series. I have no issue playing one game at the Meadowlands but signing a deal with ND where we play them 2-3 times at there place and zero in the dome is assinine and a slap in the face to those of us who have stuck it out this whole time.

 

[Cuseman78]

Not sure I am buying #2, theres never been a problem getting the big boys to come into the dome. Isnt Penn State a 1-1-1 series. I have no issue playing one game at the Meadowlands but signing a deal with ND where we play them 2-3 times at there place and zero in the dome is assinine and a slap in the face to those of us who have stuck it out this whole time.

Just curious -- does this mean you won't be going to the USC game?

 

[OttoMets]

I think #2 sums it up. A loud minority of Central New Yorkers are some of the most negative people I've ever come across.

Not coincidentally, I think the complaints about parking directly stem from #2. When people are looking for an excuse not to come to the game and they have limited life experience (not, for instance, having been stuck in a car in Morgantown, Landover, or State College after a football game before), of course the parking situation on the Hill seems a terrible hardship. It's more difficult than sitting on the couch or wheeling into a free spot in front of the East Syracuse Wal-Mart, sure. But for the rest of us, there's nothing difficult or confusing about access to the Dome.

Additionally, as TexanMark noted, demographic changes in Central New York have caused some permanent changes to the ticket-buying fan base. Over 20 years - despite the fact that employment has remained stable, as far as numbers go - ~15,000 manufacturing jobs have vanished. Along with students, those middle-class blue collar workers are the bread and butter of football ticket sales. And those people aren't coming back.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Just curious -- does this mean you won't be going to the USC game?

No I will be there and dont mind us doing something like this once every 3-5 years but to schedule whole series of games with other Top OOC teams and have zero games in the dome to me is outrageous. What other BCS program does like that. Thats like Oliver Luck the AD at West Virginia announcing there playing LSU this year in Norfolk VA to expand the fan base and get better attendance. Can you imagine the outrage there would be from the fan base.

At Syacuse we think it will be a good idea to agree to 16 more of these games or whatever Gross just signed while we get Toledo, Wake Forest, and Army.

 

[OttoMets]

signing a deal with ND where we play them 2-3 times at there place and zero in the dome is assinine and a slap in the face to those of us who have stuck it out this whole time.

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that this is a slap in the face, a matter of respect or hurt feelings.

They're moving a football game. It's a great opportunity to spend a weekend in New York and see our favorite team play a major non-conference opponent in a new venue. How this is anything other than a positive is beyond me.

I guess it really does take a Syracuse fan to turn an opportunity into an insult.

 

[Cadillac]

Yes, I always wondered why there wasn't a bigger following within an hour/2 hr radius around Syracuse. It seems pretty obvious to me that people in Utica or Binghamton or Rochester should root for Syracuse University in everything.

I grew up in the Southern Tier & outskirts of Rochester and basketball is just bigger in the small towns. It helps that there's 30 SU basketball games to get people through the winter. Also helps that Syracuse is good. College football's not even on their radar if they're not an ND fan.

Buffalo is pointless. Even SU alums from Buffalo would rather tailgate at Ralph Wilson Stadium and drunkenly insult the Bills when they're losing. The obsession with the Sabres is still growing. They're not bad people, it's just what they know.

 

[SaintTristan]

Disagree that you cant win back fans. Not sure this admin or this coaching staff can do it, but it can be done with the right combination of success and marketing. Agree with the other comment in this thread that it wont be an easy battle because of the loss of union jobs in upstate NY.

 

[Cuseman78]

No I will be there and dont mind us doing something like this once every 3-5 years but to schedule whole series of games with other Top OOC teams and have zero games in the dome to me is outrageous. What other BCS program does like that. Thats like Oliver Luck the AD at West Virginia announcing there playing LSU this year in Norfolk VA to expand the fan base and get better attendance. Can you imagine the outrage there would be from the fan base.

At Syacuse we think it will be a good idea to agree to 16 more of these games or whatever Gross just signed while we get Toledo, Wake Forest, and Army.

Ok fair response. Don't 100% agree but understand your position

 

[Cuseman78]

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that this is a slap in the face, a matter of respect or hurt feelings.

They're moving a football game. It's a great opportunity to spend a weekend in New York and see our favorite team play a major non-conference opponent in a new venue. How this is anything other than a positive is beyond me.

I guess it really does take a Syracuse fan to turn an opportunity into an insult.

This is exactly my sentiment -- couldn't have said it better. The game isn't being played in Siberia.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that this is a slap in the face, a matter of respect or hurt feelings.

They're moving a football game. It's a great opportunity to spend a weekend in New York and see our favorite team play a major non-conference opponent in a new venue. How this is anything other than a positive is beyond me.

I guess it really does take a Syracuse fan to turn an opportunity into an insult.

Our home field is the Carrier Dome not a stadium built on a swamp in New Jersey. All that game does is guarantee Notre Dame will have equal or more fans at our "home game". I have no issue with signing deals with one away one home and one in NYC/NJ but signing a series with no game at the Dome is stupid and no other top BCS team is doing this consistenly to all there top OOC games. Also how many CNY fans do you know who can afford a weekend in NYC every year in this economy.

 

[Bayside44]

Not sure I am buying #2, theres never been a problem getting the big boys to come into the dome. Isnt Penn State a 1-1-1 series. I have no issue playing one game at the Meadowlands but signing a deal with ND where we play them 2-3 times at there place and zero in the dome is assinine and a slap in the face to those of us who have stuck it out this whole time.

Tennessee was 13 years ago, Michigan 12, Auburn 10, Florida 20.Heck, Notre Dame was 8 years ago.

College football has become a much, much bigger business and the payout from our stadium isn't that great.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Tennessee was 13 years ago, Michigan 12, Auburn 10, Florida 20.Heck, Notre Dame was 8 years ago.

College football has become a much, much bigger business and the payout from our stadium isn't that great.

USC agreed to the Dome and then Gross changed it on his own. Penn State just agreed to play here and we had BC and VA Tech for a home and home. We might not be able to get Florida and ND anymore but we can still get top teams. Michigan is playing at Uconn this year for christ sake.

 

[Skinny.Atlas]

I'm a long time, die hard fan. I won't be going to the game this week. I can't. I went to four games last year...Pitt, Louisville, UConn, and BC. It hurts too much to watch my team do so poorly.

I'll be back. I'm 100% convinced that Coach Marrone has this team on the right track. But I need to see a couple of home wins on TV before I will venture back up to the dome.

So will fans return, when the team wins? Yes...I'm one of them, so is my wife.

Did Buzz permenantly piss off loyal SU fans? Yep...My father and Uncle had season tickets since the dome opened until Buzz told them to get a life. My Uncle hasn't been back to the dome since then.

 

[TexanMark]

I grew up in the Southern Tier & outskirts of Rochester and basketball is just bigger in the small towns. It helps that there's 30 SU basketball games to get people through the winter. Also helps that Syracuse is good. College football's not even on their radar if they're not an ND fan.

Buffalo is pointless. Even SU alums from Buffalo would rather tailgate at Ralph Wilson Stadium and drunkenly insult the Bills when they're losing. The obsession with the Sabres is still growing. They're not bad people, it's just what they know.

Syracuse's Core is Rochester (West) to Herkimer (east), 1000 Islands (North) to Binghamton (South).

 

[raf4488]

Tennessee was 13 years ago, Michigan 12, Auburn 10, Florida 20.Heck, Notre Dame was 8 years ago.

College football has become a much, much bigger business and the payout from our stadium isn't that great.

the best thing about these games is we were competitive in every one of them. it'll be a shame when most of the big schools refuse to schedule home and homes with us anymore. if we're fortunate enough to get an ACC/ B10 move this can be fixed though.

 

[Alcuse01]

I would like to add 2 things to the anti-hometown statement

1) This is definitely out there and has been for sometime. When I was in college I had to work (play the violin for me) and I experienced this anti-cuse feeling a lot. I worked at Kahunnaville and the Olive Garden and the majority of the other workers (all 17-25 I would guess) were against the Cuse. They'd openly cheer against the Cuse. In fact, I became friends with 2 guys b/c they were Cuse fans... whereas everyoen else tried to separate themselves from the university.

2) I understand this though ... I grew up in NJ and never liked rutgers. It goes back to when I had to apply to colleges. I didn't want to go to rutgers b/c it was in state. A lot of ppl would talk about going to school there and the benefits of it all, and all that talk started to push me in the opposite direction. It got to the point where I'd rather go anywhere but there... and now years later I still hate that school. I hate the damn R I used to see on windows, and flags in yards. But looking at that, I understand why ppl may hate the hometown team. Especially younger ppl -- you tend to "hate" what you know too well, and want something else. Something that is different from everyone else around you...Something you havent' seen every single day for 'x' # of years.

 

[Cuseman78]

I'm a long time, die hard fan. I won't be going to the game this week. I can't. I went to four games last year...Pitt, Louisville, UConn, and BC. It hurts too much to watch my team do so poorly.

I'll be back. I'm 100% convinced that Coach Marrone has this team on the right track. But I need to see a couple of home wins on TV before I will venture back up to the dome.

So will fans return, when the team wins? Yes...I'm one of them, so is my wife.

Did Buzz permenantly **** off loyal SU fans? Yep...My father and Uncle had season tickets since the dome opened until Buzz told them to get a life. My Uncle hasn't been back to the dome since then.

No offense, but this type of response is the reason that I have absolutely no problem with Gross moving games to the Meadowlands. Unfortunately this hurts the JeremyCuse's of the world who don't deserve to have games shipped to the swamp, but there are too many CNYers who feel the same as you. Instead of trying to create a majorly difficult home field advantage, our "fans" need to see the wins first. Completely assbackwards to me.

By the way, Buzz hasn't been Chancellor for almost 10 years. Its safe for your uncle to come back now. That is the most ridiculous reason to not come to a football game that I have ever heard.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I, for one, come from the metro area (season ticket holder) and know many others who do. Syracuse alums don't head in droves to Albany and Syracuse after graduation. They end up in the large cities up and down the east coast. Hence why TGD is attempting to re-brand.

By the way, does buffalo and Albany even know Syracuse football exists? There is a bigger following in NYC (because of the large alumni base) than there are in either of those cities.

I completely agree - the alumni fanbase in NYC is bigger than most upstate cities' fanbase. Unfortunately, that large fanbase in NYC, and other major metro areas, doesn't translate to butts in the bleachers. I just don't get why SU focused on NYC (Orange in the Apple) to re-brand itself NY's College Team and didn't pursue other upstate markets as aggressively.

Please don't interpret what I'm saying as an argument against playing games in the Meadowlands - I think it's a good idea. But moving the marquee match up every year is pissing on your local fans' legs and telling them it's rain.

 

[JeremyCuse]

No offense, but this type of response is the reason that I have absolutely no problem with Gross moving games to the Meadowlands. Unfortunately this hurts the JeremyCuse's of the world who don't deserve to have games shipped to the swamp, but there are too many CNYers who feel the same as you. Instead of trying to create a majorly difficult home field advantage, our "fans" need to see the wins first. Completely assbackwards to me.

By the way, Buzz hasn't been Chancellor for almost 10 years. Its safe for your uncle to come back now. That is the most ridiculous reason to not come to a football game that I have ever heard.

Cuseman is right, especially if your staying away because of what Shaw said a decade ago. If your local and dont have somethign important keeping you away you really should be at the game. Buy the $100 dollar season tickets theres no better deal and you can DVR the game.

 

[Tornado91]

The football team's relationship with the community is more like a professional team's than most of the college teams we compare it to. There are proportionately fewer alumni in the area, and a majority of local fans (probably even board members) have no direct tie to the university. Beside Notre Dame, USC, and maybe a few others that don't come to mind at the moment, private school fanbases are limited to scattered alums and families and smaller groups of non-affiliated folks. That makes it tough enough, and a horribly embarrassing football decade that (unfortunately) exacerbates the poor regional self esteem (bad weather, bad economy, ugly girls...oops) seals the deal for a lot of people.

As a former CNYer living out of the area - but close enough to make a trip up from SE PA for a game - there are a couple of problems for me. First off, this year's schedule is absurd. A THURSDAY NIGHT GAME ON MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND. I was set to bring my wife, brother-in-law (Wake Forest alum) and his wife (also Wake Forest alum) and make a weekend out of it. Obviously not happening. Not for the Friday games, either. Work problem. And while I can't wait to make it to the Fine Lot and meet some of the board members, the overall tailgating scene at Syracuse is weak compared to most other schools it wants to compete with. Northern schools are handicapped enough by the weather, but if PARKING (not even talking about tailgating here) is even a discussion point, it's a problem. I'm twice as likely to go to a game if the trip includes a good tailgate - twice the value for my trip. And having been to many college games at many venues across the country, tailgating makes college games what they are. The Dome tends to be a little sterile, but as a season ticket holder in the late '90s, I still thought it was pretty good. The hill is a fun spot to roll to after games, but it doesn't replace a great tailgate scene within a reasonable proximity to the stadium. A stadium can be on the periphery of a campus (i.e. PSU), not so much across town (i.e. Pitt), but if there isn't anywhere to tailgate or congregate or have a good time without travel hassles, then a big draw is missing. I guarantee that with a strong tailgating scene, Syracuse would be more likely to draw local and regional alums (and non-alums) back for games. Not sure how many, but definitely more than are coming now. Maybe a south campus stadium would change that...maybe it wouldn't.

Anyway, that probably came across harsher than I intended. I still think that when they start winning, attendance and enthusiasm will improve. It's going to take more than a couple of 8-5 seasons, though, for a lot of the naysayers to acknowledge the team as anything more than a third-rate program. I feel like it could get there with Marrone, but unless there's a better culture around the games, attendance will always struggle.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The football team's relationship with the community is more like a professional team's than most of the college teams we compare it to. There are proportionately fewer alumni in the area, and a majority of local fans (probably even board members) have no direct tie to the university. Beside Notre Dame, USC, and maybe a few others that don't come to mind at the moment, private school fanbases are limited to scattered alums and families and smaller groups of non-affiliated folks. That makes it tough enough, and a horribly embarrassing football decade that (unfortunately) exacerbates the poor regional self esteem (bad weather, bad economy, ugly girls...oops) seals the deal for a lot of people.

As a former CNYer living out of the area - but close enough to make a trip up from SE PA for a game - there are a couple of problems for me. First off, this year's schedule is absurd. A THURSDAY NIGHT GAME ON MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND. I was set to bring my wife, brother-in-law (Wake Forest alum) and his wife (also Wake Forest alum) and make a weekend out of it. Obviously not happening. Not for the Friday games, either. Work problem. And while I can't wait to make it to the Fine Lot and meet some of the board members, the overall tailgating scene at Syracuse is weak compared to most other schools it wants to compete with. Northern schools are handicapped enough by the weather, but if PARKING (not even talking about tailgating here) is even a discussion point, it's a problem. I'm twice as likely to go to a game if the trip includes a good tailgate - twice the value for my trip. And having been to many college games at many venues across the country, tailgating makes college games what they are. The Dome tends to be a little sterile, but as a season ticket holder in the late '90s, I still thought it was pretty good. The hill is a fun spot to roll to after games, but it doesn't replace a great tailgate scene within a reasonable proximity to the stadium. A stadium can be on the periphery of a campus (i.e. PSU), not so much across town (i.e. Pitt), but if there isn't anywhere to tailgate or congregate or have a good time without travel hassles, then a big draw is missing. I guarantee that with a strong tailgating scene, Syracuse would be more likely to draw local and regional alums (and non-alums) back for games. Not sure how many, but definitely more than are coming now. Maybe a south campus stadium would change that...maybe it wouldn't.

Anyway, that probably came across harsher than I intended. I still think that when they start winning, attendance and enthusiasm will improve. It's going to take more than a couple of 8-5 seasons, though, for a lot of the naysayers to acknowledge the team as anything more than a third-rate program. I feel like it could get there with Marrone, but unless there's a better culture around the games, attendance will always struggle.

Good post, sorry to hear about the weekday games affecting your ability to attend. Hopefully you will make it up for a game and join us in the Lot for a tailgate, you would have a good time.

 

[tipphill]

No one should be suprised about the lack of predicted turnout or tickets sold to date for Thursdays home opener. At this point I think its been well documented by several posters and admins from this board on why attendance continues to be an issue. I know some contribute it to ticket prices and such but I think thats really not a large issue. I think a few of the issues below are some of the biggest hurdles SU is facing.

1. A small % of the fan base is simply never coming back, period. These fans right or wrong got burnt out under the Old regime with Buzz, Jake, and Coach P and thew in the towel that he was not let go before he was terminated. Some of these fans made there way back for Robinson and even more under Marrone but I know there hundreds if not thousands in this area who still have not come back since the whole "get a life" statement or whatever Buzz said, Its sad but some of these fans are lost forever.

2. Anti-hometown sentiment. This to me is the biggest problem and the most dumbfounding. Syacuse has by far the biggest number of local anti hometown fans I have ever seen. It is mindblowing. I know a lot of football fans on or around my age range that simply have zero interest in going to a Syracuse game and actually openly root for SU to fail. This area is the opposite of what I imagine Penn State, Ohio State, Florida..etc have regarding football support. What is even odder is that a lot of these fans actually like the basketball program but for some reason are fans of FSU, Miami, Penn State, ND anyteam besides SU. There are literally thousands of local college football fans that just hate Syracuse for being Syracuse and arent comign to a game no matter what promotion, price, or opponent the Syracuse administration tries. I know this sounds overblown but its really a problem and under Robinson was an epidemic.

3. Promotion - I know the administration is trying but they really do a horrible job with PR and advertising. I think I have seen maybe a handful of commericals for the opening SU game this year and it looks like Cali directed them. There not only hard to watch but they dont appeal to anyoen other then us diehards who had tickets months ago. With the money this school generates gettign a couple primetime ads on the major sports networks and local affiliates should be a no brainer. We have local ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and other affiliates that should be bombarded with ads and notifications of ticket deals and specials. Instead we have a commercial with Mike Hopkins, Desko, and Floyd Little that the casual local fan has zero idea who 2 out of 3 are. I cant tell you how many times someone has asked me about how season tickets and parkign passes and single game tickets and other things work at the Dome because they have no idea.

4. Parking - I know OrangeExtreme wont like this paragraph but the parking situation at the Dome is a nightmare. For us diehards we could care less but again im talking about the local "casual" fan the Admin is trying to attract not the regulars on this board. I wont re-hash this to death has the issues are well known. There is little to no room to tailgate around the dome and for that matter with the new construction of the law school there is less and less to park. I know some will say Skytop and the shuttle service are the answer but I disagree. Most casual fans who havent been attending games or go to maybe 1-2 a year have no clue about the parking at Manley and shuttle service or simply dont want to/refuse to park there for whatever reason. With the weather and other issues most fans want to be somewhere in the vacinity of the stadium. With the pay lots SU has now and the two parking garages VA/Public SU is meeting some of that demand. But with the current construction makign the roads a mess and lots dissapearing for new building construction the amount of spaces are slowly shrinking and is making it harder to park somewhere in the vacinity of the dome. I hope Dr. Gross really takes a look at perserving some of the pay lots especially the Fine Lot and the surrounding lots as they offer a great tailgating experience and helps the Athletic Dept raise a good chunk of money. As TexanMark noted the finelot is allready sold out this year.

5. Diehard fan base is at its max. - I find it funny when posters come on here to complain about the lack of attendance or Axeman or Marrone will metion it in a radio interview or on TW sports inside syracuse sidelines. Who do you think watches, listens, and comes to these sites = the diehard fan, were not the ones who aren't showing up or opting to watch it on TW sports or ESPN. Your not going to increase attendance by bitching on a post here at Syracusefan.com or having Bud P write some article in the Post Standard as again 95% of that audience is the diehard fan who is allready going to the game and pushing everyone they know to go to. I dont claim to have the answers to solve the attendance problem but please stop posting messages here telling everyone to get to the game. All the local diehards are at the game trust me.

If anyone else has other issues they feel are a factor I would love to hear it.

 

[tipphill]

This is so freaking spot on!!

I'll also throw in the "Basketball only's" They make me sick.

i agree with much of the above but "anti-hometown sentiment" is not limited to football. these folks are chronic malcontents that have nothing good to say about ANYTHING. the glass is always half empty. from jobs to grocery stores to weather to neighbors to family etc ...it never ends.its a chronic condition. they are not even pessimists. they remain chronically miserable and self loathing, to which there is no cure. somehow we need to reach the pessimistic ones, they are the wait and see group.