Not to keep beating a dead horse but (Ticket Sales)

[Fjoinkay]

Wow. Great posts on this topic. The only thing I'll add is that I only care about the die-hard SU fans. If SU has only 42K die-hard fans I can live with that, but I really hope they go to the games.

Ironically, I think SU teams in all sports usually struggle when they are successful because when the masses jump on the bandwagon the added attention is so distinguishable that it becomes a distraction. If, and it's a big if, the football team this year gets off to a really good start, HCDM will be faced with the same problem because the general public will show up and they will expect big wins-the kind of wins this program has only rarely had. Other than lacrosse, I think SU teams do best when the expectations remain kind of low. And yes, I think that is true of basketball-especially basketball.

 

[Jaka]

wow, these have been my exact thoughts that you were able to clearly articulate

 

[Cadillac]

I'm a long time, die hard fan. I won't be going to the game this week. I can't. I went to four games last year...Pitt, Louisville, UConn, and BC. It hurts too much to watch my team do so poorly.

I'll be back. I'm 100% convinced that Coach Marrone has this team on the right track. But I need to see a couple of home wins on TV before I will venture back up to the dome.

So will fans return, when the team wins? Yes...I'm one of them, so is my wife.

Did Buzz permenantly **** off loyal SU fans? Yep...My father and Uncle had season tickets since the dome opened until Buzz told them to get a life. My Uncle hasn't been back to the dome since then.

Try getting them to meet DM. Your uncle and dad and wife will be dragging you to the games.

 

[HtownOrange]

Much of what you guys are saying is true, but Syracuse will revive its fan base with winning and maybe some marketing across the state. Here in Houston, U of Houston gets no respect unless they are winning, they have small attendence and they have far more graduates than Syracuse does. Add to that that the Houston Metro is 5-6 million and you can get a better feel for Syracuse fandom. It really is not that bad for a smaller metro (less than 1 million). Yes, most Houstonians cheer for UT or TAMU, but they take Rice and U of Houston for granted, unless they are winning, and most UT and TAMU fans have never attended either university. By the way, there is more to do around here in the fall than there is in CNY (better weather).

 

[HtownOrange]

USC agreed to the Dome and then Gross changed it on his own. Penn State just agreed to play here and we had BC and VA Tech for a home and home. We might not be able to get Florida and ND anymore but we can still get top teams. Michigan is playing at Uconn this year for christ sake.

Nobody can get Florida to leave the state for an OOC game. Their last out of state OOC game was in the Dome. People wonder why I don't think highly of Steve Spurrier: this and the fact that he quit the Miami series because he was losing. He probably would have quit playing FSU if it wasn't the other key state U in FL.

 

[Chip]

I think some of it is the perfect storm of SU declining and then bottoming around the same time the conference became much less interesting. SU has almost always been a fanbase more interested in a compelling opponent. We lost the 2 best draws of the conference, and probably the 4th best draw of the conference. Replaced them with 2 schools that most SU fans probably associated more with hoops, and 1 school who most fans probably never heard of (USF).

Assuming Marrone keeps things moving forward, I think the place will fill again, but it will be a turnover of a significant sized chunk of the fanbase.

 

[Scooch]

I don't think attendance is as big a problem as some think. Look, let's say 38K come out Thursday. Is that great? No. But my freshman year, 1991, SU opened against Vanderbilt, to 35K. We played Rutgers in 1998, the weekend after destroying Michigan at the Big House, and drew 42K.

Getting 45K+ in the Dome has been the exception, not the rule. Win some games and attendance will increase, it just will. Keep it up and we'll be back to averaging 42-46K, which is really where SU has been at its best. The Dome was probably built 5K seats too large, given our history.

I think the place should be full every game, but I love college football and can't think of better things to do. Syracuse just ain't a college football town. Wish it was, but what can you do.

 

[shantydaze]

I grew up in the Southern Tier & outskirts of Rochester and basketball is just bigger in the small towns.

This might be part of the problem. My wife grew up about an hour from Syracuse in Wayne County. Neither her high school not any high school in her conference offered football as a sport. As a result, her family does not care for football and would never even consider driving to Syracuse for a game.

The other problem is the lack of people identifying with Syracuse. People in states with large land grant universities have an easier time identifying with State U. This is why Gross' attempt to brand Syracuse sports as NY's college team is important. Unfortunately, this may be where provincialism may be a problem. If people from Rochester, Binghampton, Buffalo, etc. do not like Syracuse the city, it is not surprising they would not root for the University that shares its name.

 

[Fjoinkay]

The best thing about SU fans is that those who show up tend to be very loud when they have a reason to be. I think that's always been the case. I wasn't around for basketball at Manley, but the noise in that place is legendary.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I have to disagree with the statement that SU isn't doing anything with advertising. I've been hearing season ticket commercials all spring and summer on the radio. They haven't promoted the first game until this past week, but they have pushed season ticket sales.

 

[lincolncuse]

Syracuse just ain't a college football town. Wish it was, but what can you do.

I work in Syracuse and today one of our vendors gave the department 4 free tickets to the game Thursday; real good seats too.

We were going to have a drawing since there are 20 people but no one put their name in. Unreal.

 

[TDTOrange]

I would say that Syracuse for the most part is an "event" town. For there to be a big crowd, it has to be a big event. Whether that's Strasburg pitching for the Chiefs, the Crunch's outdoor game, or a big-time opponent for basketball. The only way a big crowd shows up is if it's an event. I mean, it's not like every basketball crowd is a big crowd. For the most part the December games are lucky to get over 15,000 to show up (although that's still a good crowd). But the BIG TIME crowds don't show up unless it's a prime-time ESPN or CBS game against a top 5 team. It's also related to the fact that the basketball team has been in the top 10 routinely over the last 10 years, that helps make the "event".

We haven't had that team in football in a long, long time. I don't think any amount of deals, advertising, etc. will generate a massive crowd given where this program has been for the last few years and where it is now. It stinks that this town can't or won't support this program to the levels we die-hards want it to be, but I'm not sure what anyone can do to fix that other than for SU to turn out a winning program for a number of years. It's just been proven that mediocre won't cut it.

 

[pattycuse]

I would say that Syracuse for the most part is an "event" town. For there to be a big crowd, it has to be a big event. Whether that's Strasburg pitching for the Chiefs, the Crunch's outdoor game, or a big-time opponent for basketball. The only way a big crowd shows up is if it's an event. I mean, it's not like every basketball crowd is a big crowd. For the most part the December games are lucky to get over 15,000 to show up (although that's still a good crowd). But the BIG TIME crowds don't show up unless it's a prime-time ESPN or CBS game against a top 5 team. It's also related to the fact that the basketball team has been in the top 10 routinely over the last 10 years, that helps make the "event".

I agree with this. Bluntly, football games at the Dome haven't been much fun for the casual fan over the last five years- and I say that as a guy who hardly ever misses one. Until the product on the field improves and the games are viewed as (cliche alert) a place to see and be seen, we're going to struggle to draw 45K. Just my opinion.

Frankly, I wish the 40K people in the building would make more noise- but that's a different thread altogether. A loud 40K can make that building tremble...

 

[GoCuse44]

I lived in Columbia, South Carolina for three years during the 1980's and college football games were an event. People had RV's painted with the team colors, they loved the Gamecocks, and despite the fact the team had not been a bowl game in years they drew 50,000+ every game.

When I returned to Syracuse in 1990 I bought football season tickets and have missed two games in the last 20 years. I found it amazing how much anti-SU sentiment there is in this town when compared to Columbia, SC. I have never seen a college town where so many people have a hatred for their hometown college team and would not go to a game if they were given free tickets.

What's sad is these people don't seem to have a clue what a positive impact SU has on this area. When I was on a cruise last winter I got off the ship in St. Thomas with an SU shirt on and the taxi cab driver yelled "Go Orange" and then started talking to me about SU. Here I am in the Caribbean and the taxi cab driver was more excited about SU sports then some people in this town.

On a positive note it is great that there has been a 10% increase in football season ticket sales this year.

 

[rrlbees]

No offense, but this type of response is the reason that I have absolutely no problem with Gross moving games to the Meadowlands. Unfortunately this hurts the JeremyCuse's of the world who don't deserve to have games shipped to the swamp, but there are too many CNYers who feel the same as you. Instead of trying to create a majorly difficult home field advantage, our "fans" need to see the wins first. Completely assbackwards to me.

By the way, Buzz hasn't been Chancellor for almost 10 years. Its safe for your uncle to come back now. That is the most ridiculous reason to not come to a football game that I have ever heard.

There are two sides to the coin however. While I am sure they did their due diligence and decided that moving 15 of the biggest OOC games to the Meadowlands is better for the bottom line, you can't then turn around having the staff say privately and in some cases publicly, that a big part of the success of the program depends on the fans coming to the Dome. Your actions can't be one thing and your words something else.

 

[Tornado91]

The football culture in NYS is different than in most states. For starters, it is the only one of 50 states without a clearly identifiable flagship athletic campus. Plus, it's a state that still has hundreds and hundreds of tiny one-town high schools, many of which graduate fewer than 100 kids/class. Those schools, unlike the larger, regional schools down here in Pennsylvania, have a harder time creating excitement around football games. Kids don't have to work as hard to excell in sports at that level, and recruiters don't waste their time scouring them to watch prospects line up across from kids 75 lbs lighter. And it's cold. As a result, most of the kids - in upstate, at least - don't even know kids headed to DI programs, let alone Syracuse. That has a huge impact on the excitement level, or lack of, around college FB.

It's a tough task, but I think Gross & Marrone are smart to try to develop the state's HS football culture. If it's ever going to improve, it needs a beacon. Most states have one by design. NYS needs to find one. I think they recognize that and are going after it. It's not just about finding a few extra recruits, it really is about generating excitement in NYS about more than the NFL teams.

 

[IHeartSUFball]

totally agree, all of us on here LOVE syracuse football and best tiem of year is when they are playing. Most of us live in syracuse or jsut outside that come to the DOME...there isnt a lot to do in this town so it should always be booming on a saturday or therefore thursday night. It sickens me when I hear a couple crackers call in that make no sense saying its the schedule when outside of wvu/s fla. we play a decent non conference every year. WE WON 8 DAMN games and a bowl game last year. We are a top 40 program again.. and hopefully climbing... what the hell else more do people want. I know WHEN we are 5-1 heading into WVU we may get 46000 there, but I say and keep thsoe fringe losers home. Either way I am beyond amped for Thursday and will carry the dome chanting by myself if I have to...LEGOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I lived in Columbia, South Carolina for three years during the 1980's and college football games were an event. People had RV's painted with the team colors, they loved the Game****s, and despite the fact the team had not been a bowl game in years they drew 50,000+ every game.

Whoa, whoa. I am not liking the look of this. If GoCuse44 wants to say that the good people of South Carolina loves themselves some Gamecocks, well then by all means, GoCuse44 should be able to say that the good people of South Carolina loves themselves some Gamecocks without any fear of censorship. And on that note, who doesn't love themselves some Gamecocks on a fall Saturday afternoon?

Communists, that's who. A communist wouldn't know a Gamecock if a Gamecock came up and bit them on the nose.

Is this board not hosted in America?

 

[Cuseman78]

There are two sides to the coin however. While I am sure they did their due diligence and decided that moving 15 of the biggest OOC games to the Meadowlands is better for the bottom line, you can't then turn around having the staff say privately and in some cases publicly, that a big part of the success of the program depends on the fans coming to the Dome. Your actions can't be one thing and your words something else.

Disagree. The administartion should be able to do both. They should be able to ask fans to show up for whatever games are scheduled in the Dome. Any games that are shipped out to Jersey or Yankee Stadium are done so to help the bottom line and/or to continue their New Yorks Team marketing push. Again, if we were having sell-out after sell-out, and the and the football program was making money hand over fist, there wouldn't be any games moving anywhere. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Are you telling me that there will be people who now boycott the other games because the "premier" games are held in the NYC area. I hope that wouldn't be true.

 

[rrlbees]

Disagree. The administartion should be able to do both. They should be able to ask fans to show up for whatever games are scheduled in the Dome. Any games that are shipped out to Jersey or Yankee Stadium are done so to help the bottom line and/or to continue their New Yorks Team marketing push. Again, if we were having sell-out after sell-out, and the and the football program was making money hand over fist, there wouldn't be any games moving anywhere. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Are you telling me that there will be people who now boycott the other games because the "premier" games are held in the NYC area. I hope that wouldn't be true.

It's one thing to ask people to come to the Dome or to promote games to get the fans there. They should be doing that. It is quit another to put any of the onus of the programs success on that happening then using actions that say something else to the people they want to come to the Dome.

And yes, like I said in another post, I do know people that aren't going to bother with seasons knowing all the premier games are in NYC. Not because they are there in paricular but because the home schedule will be significantly weaker than past years. Fans already got burned by the USC game as TGD did say the USC game would be in the Dome. Now that game and 14 other unnamed games (certainly not Rhode Island) will not be here.

And BTW, before you go there, unless my kids have a conflict due to their athletic or academic events, I've gone to every home game possible for decades and still plan too. So I'm not arguing this from my own perspective. It's the casula fan and the casual season ticket holder (yes, they exist), not the diehards.

 

[Cuseman78]

It's one thing to ask people to come to the Dome or to promote games to get the fans there. They should be doing that. It is quit another to put any of the onus of the programs success on that happening then using actions that say something else to the people they want to come to the Dome.

And yes, like I said in another post, I do know people that aren't going to bother with seasons knowing all the premier games are in NYC. Not because they are there in paricular but because the home schedule will be significantly weaker than past years. Fans already got burned by the USC game as TGD did say the USC game would be in the Dome. Now that game and 14 other unnamed games (certainly not Rhode Island) will not be here.

And BTW, before you go there, unless my kids have a conflict due to their athletic or academic events, I've gone to every home game possible for decades and still plan too. So I'm not arguing this from my own perspective. It's the casula fan and the casual season ticket holder (yes, they exist), not the diehards.

That's the problem right there then. Too many casuals and not enough die-hards.

 

[Chip]

There are two sides to the coin however. While I am sure they did their due diligence and decided that moving 15 of the biggest OOC games to the Meadowlands is better for the bottom line, you can't then turn around having the staff say privately and in some cases publicly, that a big part of the success of the program depends on the fans coming to the Dome. Your actions can't be one thing and your words something else.

But the problem is that the fans shouldn't have to be told this. It's college football 101, kids are recruited to schools, they like to play in front of crowds. There are probably thousands of people in the Syracuse area who bash Marrone for not being able to land higher profile kids and therefore won't bother going to games. So to me it's not so much that the AD is telling the fans this, even though Marrone is certainly making his pleas. The AD is doing what he thinks is necessary to make the program more interesting to both the nation and to potential recruits. It's not just dollars, it's exposure. I'll be curious what those future games (outside the current deals) end up being. If he can negotiate 1-1-1s like Penn State, then hopefully no one will complain, that's the best of everything.

 

[rrlbees]

That's the problem right there then. Too many casuals and not enough die-hards.

That will probably never change. This town only has probably 20,000 die hard fans.

 

[JeremyCuse]

It's one thing to ask people to come to the Dome or to promote games to get the fans there. They should be doing that. It is quit another to put any of the onus of the programs success on that happening then using actions that say something else to the people they want to come to the Dome.

And yes, like I said in another post, I do know people that aren't going to bother with seasons knowing all the premier games are in NYC. Not because they are there in paricular but because the home schedule will be significantly weaker than past years. Fans already got burned by the USC game as TGD did say the USC game would be in the Dome. Now that game and 14 other unnamed games (certainly not Rhode Island) will not be here.

And BTW, before you go there, unless my kids have a conflict due to their athletic or academic events, I've gone to every home game possible for decades and still plan too. So I'm not arguing this from my own perspective. It's the casula fan and the casual season ticket holder (yes, they exist), not the diehards.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. If Marrone can get this program fully turned around and able to challenge for BE titles this is going to become a bigger and bigger issue as more fans start questioning this move.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I would say that Syracuse for the most part is an "event" town. For there to be a big crowd, it has to be a big event. Whether that's Strasburg pitching for the Chiefs, the Crunch's outdoor game, or a big-time opponent for basketball. The only way a big crowd shows up is if it's an event. I mean, it's not like every basketball crowd is a big crowd. For the most part the December games are lucky to get over 15,000 to show up (although that's still a good crowd). But the BIG TIME crowds don't show up unless it's a prime-time ESPN or CBS game against a top 5 team. It's also related to the fact that the basketball team has been in the top 10 routinely over the last 10 years, that helps make the "event".

We haven't had that team in football in a long, long time. I don't think any amount of deals, advertising, etc. will generate a massive crowd given where this program has been for the last few years and where it is now. It stinks that this town can't or won't support this program to the levels we die-hards want it to be, but I'm not sure what anyone can do to fix that other than for SU to turn out a winning program for a number of years. It's just been proven that mediocre won't cut it.

Really good post.