Our constant over scheduling contributes to the problem

[CIL]

It certainly isn't the only problem, trust me. However, we aren't in the old Big East anymore. The ACC is a better conference and we do not need the money.

In my opinion, there is no longer a need for Syracuse football to continue to over schedule year in and year out. Especially with the formation of the playoff. I personally believe the injuries are a direct result of of ACC's imbalanced divisions as well as our out of conference opponents. In a span of 6 games we played MD, ND, Ville, FSU, and Clemson. Playing teams bigger, stronger, and faster puts a lot of stress on the players.

Off of the top of my head we have lost Hunt, Broyld, Estime, Foy, Morgan, Crume, Miller, Robinson, and Trudo to injury for at least a game. That is essentially 9 starters. Others missing time Arciniegia, Cornelius, Paris, Enoicy, Moore, McFarlane, W. Williams, Wilson, R. Williams, Hale (forever), Krautman (forever), Knapp (forever). I'm sure I am missing a few.

This is not a program that can withstand such a long list of injuries. Especially on on offense. I do not believe in writing off seasons, and the staff has made some head scratching decisions at times, but it's pretty difficult to go into battle with two of your best offensive weapons being true freshman. The silver lining is young players such as Long, Franklin, Ishmael, Cordy, etc are getting significant playing time much earlier than anticipated.

Here's a look at our division peers OOC schedules and note what is missing (hint, extra power conference team):

BC -USC, UMass, Maine, Colorado St
Pitt - Delaware, FIU, Iowa, Akron
NC St - Ga Southern, Presby, USF, and ODU
Wake - Garner Webb, Louisiana Monroe, Utah St, Army

We are clearly in the more difficult of the two conferences, having to face FSU, Clemson, and the Ville. Throw in ND and we have 3 1/2 booked losses before the season even starts. I can deal with ND if we don't book another BCS opponent like MD. It's not needed. We are playing for bowl eligibility at this point in the program's trajectory. We shouldn't be trying to impress playoff voters. At this juncture it is so important to make a bowl in order to sell the program to fans and recruits a like. It also allows the younger kids more practices to develop.

 

[djorange1989]

Best post I have seen all week. You are correct, It is not the only issue by any means but it is hurting us a lot. Scheduling LSU just a mere 6 months ago tells me Doc Gross and Herm aren't listening. If we played an OOC like NC St or Duke we would be 5-4 at worst maybe better because we wouldn't have gotten as decimated by injuries more than likely. We would probably have a bowl streak back to 2009 if we scheduled OOC in a smart manner. I wish we could replace LSU with Kansas!

 

[Chris02M]

It certainly isn't the only problem, trust me. However, we aren't in the old Big East anymore. The ACC is a better conference and we do not need the money.

In my opinion, there is no longer a need for Syracuse football to continue to over schedule year in and year out. Especially with the formation of the playoff. I personally believe the injuries are a direct result of of ACC's imbalanced divisions as well as our out of conference opponents. In a span of 6 games we played MD, ND, Ville, FSU, and Clemson. Playing teams bigger, stronger, and faster puts a lot of stress on the players.

Off of the top of my head we have lost Hunt, Broyld, Estime, Foy, Morgan, Crume, Miller, Robinson, and Trudo to injury for at least a game. That is essentially 9 starters. Others missing time Arciniegia, Cornelius, Paris, Enoicy, Moore, McFarlane, W. Williams, Wilson, R. Williams, Hale (forever), Krautman (forever), Knapp (forever). I'm sure I am missing a few.

This is not a program that can withstand such a long list of injuries. Especially on on offense. I do not believe in writing off seasons, and the staff has made some head scratching decisions at times, but it's pretty difficult to go into battle with two of your best offensive weapons being true freshman. The silver lining is young players such as Long, Franklin, Ishmael, Cordy, etc are getting significant playing time much earlier than anticipated.

Here's a look at our division peers OOC schedules and note what is missing (hint, extra power conference team):

BC -USC, UMass, Maine, Colorado St
Pitt - Delaware, FIU, Iowa, Akron
NC St - Ga Southern, Presby, USF, and ODU
Wake - Garner Webb, Louisiana Monroe, Utah St, Army

We are clearly in the more difficult of the two conferences, having to face FSU, Clemson, and the Ville. Throw in ND and we have 3 1/2 booked losses before the season even starts. I can deal with ND if we don't book another BCS opponent like MD. It's not needed. We are playing for bowl eligibility at this point in the program's trajectory. We shouldn't be trying to impress playoff voters. At this juncture it is so important to make a bowl in order to sell the program to fans and recruits a like. It also allows the younger kids more practices to develop.

this year was poorly executed but part of blame goes to acc office for scheduling fsu,Clemson and Louisville within a 4 week period. Maryland was also scheduled late in the game when there weren't a ton of choices for a game because we are constantly behind in scheduling out of conference games. Most teams are done thru 2017 or 18 but we still have work to do in 16-18

 

[GoSU96]

Been saying this for years.

 

[007]

Been saying this for years.

x two

 

[Chip]

Yeah, I mean I love the idea of playing the haves in college football because I like visiting those places, like the energy they can bring to the Dome (LSU at least).

But it's not smart. We're going to be lucky to win 4 in the league, so we need to win 3-4 outside it. One mid level P5, and three in the MAC-Sun Belt-1AA family. Even if you go AAC, you have to be careful.

Next year would appear to be 3 OOC wins. I don't even follow USF anymore, but I doubt anyone shows up to their games. I assume we can win that next year.

 

[longislandcuse]

We have 6 losses.

2 losses to National Championship Contenders.
2 losses to Top 25 teams.
2 losses to peer level team that we outplayed.

We're also injured, broken and have zero confidence.

Middle of the pack ACC team playing an SEC West type schedule. Ridiculous.

 

[007]

this year was poorly executed but part of blame goes to acc office for scheduling fsu,Clemson and Louisville within a 4 week period. Maryland was also scheduled late in the game when there weren't a ton of choices for a game because we are constantly behind in scheduling out of conference games. Most teams are done thru 2017 or 18 but we still have work to do in 16-18

I'm not sure how much control we have over how the ACC schedules its teams. But, here's a thought for the OOC schedule that we do control....stay freakin away from the SEC and perennial top 20 programs. It's not brain surgery.

 

[Chris02M]

I'm not sure how much control we have over how the ACC schedules its teams. But, here's a thought for the OOC schedule that we do control...stay freakin away from the SEC and perennial top 20 programs. It's not brain surgery.

catch 22 though people complain about the lack of quality non conference teams in the dome as it is

 

[007]

catch 22 though people complain about the lack of quality non conference teams in the dome as it is

It's really not. People aren't coming to games because of all the losing, because the O can't score, and because the product on the field inspires apathy.

 

[RF2044]

It certainly isn't the only problem, trust me. However, we aren't in the old Big East anymore. The ACC is a better conference and we do not need the money.

In my opinion, there is no longer a need for Syracuse football to continue to over schedule year in and year out. Especially with the formation of the playoff. I personally believe the injuries are a direct result of of ACC's imbalanced divisions as well as our out of conference opponents. In a span of 6 games we played MD, ND, Ville, FSU, and Clemson. Playing teams bigger, stronger, and faster puts a lot of stress on the players.

Off of the top of my head we have lost Hunt, Broyld, Estime, Foy, Morgan, Crume, Miller, Robinson, and Trudo to injury for at least a game. That is essentially 9 starters. Others missing time Arciniegia, Cornelius, Paris, Enoicy, Moore, McFarlane, W. Williams, Wilson, R. Williams, Hale (forever), Krautman (forever), Knapp (forever). I'm sure I am missing a few.

This is not a program that can withstand such a long list of injuries. Especially on on offense. I do not believe in writing off seasons, and the staff has made some head scratching decisions at times, but it's pretty difficult to go into battle with two of your best offensive weapons being true freshman. The silver lining is young players such as Long, Franklin, Ishmael, Cordy, etc are getting significant playing time much earlier than anticipated.

Here's a look at our division peers OOC schedules and note what is missing (hint, extra power conference team):

BC -USC, UMass, Maine, Colorado St
Pitt - Delaware, FIU, Iowa, Akron
NC St - Ga Southern, Presby, USF, and ODU
Wake - Garner Webb, Louisiana Monroe, Utah St, Army

We are clearly in the more difficult of the two conferences, having to face FSU, Clemson, and the Ville. Throw in ND and we have 3 1/2 booked losses before the season even starts. I can deal with ND if we don't book another BCS opponent like MD. It's not needed. We are playing for bowl eligibility at this point in the program's trajectory. We shouldn't be trying to impress playoff voters. At this juncture it is so important to make a bowl in order to sell the program to fans and recruits a like. It also allows the younger kids more practices to develop.

Couldn't agree more. Look, I think it was admirable for Gross to pound his chest and say from the beginning that he wanted to schedule tough OOC. But over the years, it has cost us a lot of easy wins. And I'm not sure that we're anywhere close to playing a top 10 caliber SOS schedule.

It really is a bad strategy all around for a "rebuilding" team that is struggling to reach bowl eligibility even in the years we make it [which has been true of our last three bowl appearances].

 

[GoSU96]

this year was poorly executed but part of blame goes to acc office for scheduling fsu,Clemson and Louisville within a 4 week period. Maryland was also scheduled late in the game when there weren't a ton of choices for a game because we are constantly behind in scheduling out of conference games. Most teams are done thru 2017 or 18 but we still have work to do in 16-18

You didn't think it was that big a deal the day the schedule came out.

 

[Chris02M]

You didn't think it was that big a deal the day the schedule came out.

didn't love it but also though Louisville would be a little worse than they are

 

[longislandcuse]

If we won the games were supposed to (Maryland/NC State) we'd be fine. Unfortunately, with his schedule, we can't afford to lose any other games.

 

[Bornorange]

Couldn't agree more. Look, I think it was admirable for Gross to pound his chest and say from the beginning that he wanted to schedule tough OOC. But over the years, it has cost us a lot of easy wins. And I'm not sure that we're anywhere close to playing a top 10 caliber SOS schedule.

It really is a bad strategy all around for a "rebuilding" team that is struggling to reach bowl eligibility even in the years we make it [which has been true of our last three bowl appearances].

But this is not just on Gross. We have been scheduling like this for twenty years. Rutgers, BC and Pitt were scheduling cupcakes and we played great teams but you get no credit for SOS in football.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Meh. I dont see the calibre of opponent as an issue. OC = one big time opponent, one peer opponent, one weaker 1-A opponent and a 1-AA opponent. That seems about right to me.

Maybe i have different expectations then others, but SU has been a middling program for the better part of 25 years. Even with generational talents like McNabb and Freeney, the ceiling was roughly bottom half of the top 25. And that was before the facilities arms race, national TV, the northern drain in talent, etc.

Personally, i'd rather schedule Notre Dame, LSU, USC, etc. every year and end up somewhere between 8-4 and 6-6 (optimally). What's BC's, PITT'S, Rutgers', etc. reward for scheduling like dog anyway? Nobody views those programs as successful, up and comers, or even challengers. I'll take a game against a perennial power every year. Better than any crap bowl game we'll make. Ask Marrone about the biggest win of his career. All he ever talked about was Nebraska in 1984. He didnt give a about the Cherry Bowl the following season. He also said that win was what springboarded the program into success in the later part of the 80s and 90s.

Your point about injuries is obviously correct though, but i think that is a bigger function of the 8 straight games with no bye. It's ridiculous and imo, seriously endangers the players.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Maryland and NCS are better than us and for that matter so was Villanova. They were not wins. People have to wake up. We already have at least 3 losses for next year at Louisville and FSU and LSU at home. We are looking at another year of trying to scrape out 6 wins. I'm not even sure who our cross over games are with. It has to come from Miami, NC, or VT and we aren't beating any of them especially if they are on the road. They are all still out recruiting us and have better talent. Who in the ACC sees SU on their schedule and doesn't put it down as a win. We already lost two homes games to teams we beat on the road last year.

 

[Chris02M]

Maryland and NCS are better than us and for that matter so was Villanova. They were not wins. People have to wake up. We already have at least 3 losses for next year at Louisville and FSU and LSU at home. We are looking at another year of trying to scrape out 6 wins. I'm not even sure who our cross over games are with. It has to come from Miami, NC, or VT and we aren't beating any of them especially if they are on the road. They are all still out recruiting us and have better talent. Who in the ACC sees SU on their schedule and doesn't put it down as a win. We already lost two homes games to teams we beat on the road last year.

cross over games are @ Virginia and the yearly pitt game next year at home

 

[djorange1989]

Maryland and NCS are better than us and for that matter so was Villanova. They were not wins. People have to wake up. We already have at least 3 losses for next year at Louisville and FSU and LSU at home. We are looking at another year of trying to scrape out 6 wins. I'm not even sure who our cross over games are with. It has to come from Miami, NC, or VT and we aren't beating any of them especially if they are on the road. They are all still out recruiting us and have better talent. Who in the ACC sees SU on their schedule and doesn't put it down as a win. We already lost two homes games to teams we beat on the road last year.

We actually have 4 automatic losses already next year. Clemson comes to the Dome and unless Watson is out again we are dead meat in that game too. So now we need six wins out of eight for a bowl. Pretty slim margin considering Pitt, BC, UVA and NC State are all as good or better than us. Outside of Wake nothing is a semi-lock in conference

 

[Bayside44]

Meh. I dont see the calibre of opponent as an issue. OC = one big time opponent, one peer opponent, one weaker 1-A opponent and a 1-AA opponent. That seems about right to me.

Maybe i have different expectations then others, but SU has been a middling program for the better part of 25 years. Even with generational talents like McNabb and Freeney, the ceiling was roughly bottom half of the top 25. And that was before the facilities arms race, national TV, the northern drain in talent, etc.

Personally, i'd rather schedule Notre Dame, LSU, USC, etc. every year and end up somewhere between 8-4 and 6-6 (optimally). What's BC's, PITT'S, Rutgers', etc. reward for scheduling like dog anyway? Nobody views those programs as successful, up and comers, or even challengers. I'll take a game against a perennial power every year. Better than any crap bowl game we'll make. Ask Marrone about the biggest win of his career. All he ever talked about was Nebraska in 1984. He didnt give a about the Cherry Bowl the following season. He also said that win was what springboarded the program into success in the later part of the 80s and 90s.

Your point about injuries is obviously correct though, but i think that is a bigger function of the 8 straight games with no bye. It's ridiculous and imo, seriously endangers the players.

So a probable loss and a push then FSU, Clemson, UL and the rest.

Tough table to play.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Great post. And yet, people in charge don't get it.

And even YET, people rip on Rutgers scheduling every year.

The irony is top notch.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

So a probable loss and a push then FSU, Clemson, UL and the rest.

Tough table to play.

Of course it's a tough table. Villanova proved to be a tough game this year.

The conference games are what they are, no changing them. We could schedule Wagner, MAC, Sun Belt, mid-low table P5, but i can't imagine many folks signing on for that. Win all those games and you're still looking at a mid to low tier bowl game. Plus there is zero entertainment value. I know i wouldnt buy seasons to see that slate.

Like i said, maybe i have a different expectation.

 

[Quazzum69]

Of course it's a tough table. Villanova proved to be a tough game this year.

The conference games are what they are, no changing them. We could schedule Wagner, MAC, Sun Belt, mid-low table P5, but i can't imagine many folks signing on for that. Win all those games and you're still looking at a mid to low tier bowl game. Plus there is zero entertainment value. I know i wouldnt buy seasons to see that slate.

Like i said, maybe i have a different expectation.

A win against Eastern Michigan or UMass is better than a blowout loss against USC or LSU.

Which season will produce more season tickets sold the next year:

Season 1: 4-8 (#8 strength of schedule)
Season 2: 9-3 (#98 strength of schedule) and a bowl game

 

[rrlbees]

It certainly isn't the only problem, trust me. However, we aren't in the old Big East anymore. The ACC is a better conference and we do not need the money. In my opinion, there is no longer a need for Syracuse football to continue to over schedule year in and year out. Especially with the formation of the playoff. I personally believe the injuries are a direct result of of ACC's imbalanced divisions as well as our out of conference opponents. In a span of 6 games we played MD, ND, Ville, FSU, and Clemson. Playing teams bigger, stronger, and faster puts a lot of stress on the players. Off of the top of my head we have lost Hunt, Broyld, Estime, Foy, Morgan, Crume, Miller, Robinson, and Trudo to injury for at least a game. That is essentially 9 starters. Others missing time Arciniegia, Cornelius, Paris, Enoicy, Moore, McFarlane, W. Williams, Wilson, R. Williams, Hale (forever), Krautman (forever), Knapp (forever). I'm sure I am missing a few. This is not a program that can withstand such a long list of injuries. Especially on on offense. I do not believe in writing off seasons, and the staff has made some head scratching decisions at times, but it's pretty difficult to go into battle with two of your best offensive weapons being true freshman. The silver lining is young players such as Long, Franklin, Ishmael, Cordy, etc are getting significant playing time much earlier than anticipated. Here's a look at our division peers OOC schedules and note what is missing (hint, extra power conference team): BC -USC, UMass, Maine, Colorado St Pitt - Delaware, FIU, Iowa, Akron NC St - Ga Southern, Presby, USF, and ODU Wake - Garner Webb, Louisiana Monroe, Utah St, Army We are clearly in the more difficult of the two conferences, having to face FSU, Clemson, and the Ville. Throw in ND and we have 3 1/2 booked losses before the season even starts. I can deal with ND if we don't book another BCS opponent like MD. It's not needed. We are playing for bowl eligibility at this point in the program's trajectory. We shouldn't be trying to impress playoff voters. At this juncture it is so important to make a bowl in order to sell the program to fans and recruits a like. It also allows the younger kids more practices to develop.

It's a balancing act. In a small way, part of the problem has been the Metlife games. We know we're only playing big name OOC opponents at Metlife. But at the same time you have to schedule somewhat attractive OOC teams in the Dome.

 

[Eric15]

It certainly isn't the only problem, trust me. However, we aren't in the old Big East anymore. The ACC is a better conference and we do not need the money.

In my opinion, there is no longer a need for Syracuse football to continue to over schedule year in and year out. Especially with the formation of the playoff. I personally believe the injuries are a direct result of of ACC's imbalanced divisions as well as our out of conference opponents. In a span of 6 games we played MD, ND, Ville, FSU, and Clemson. Playing teams bigger, stronger, and faster puts a lot of stress on the players.

Off of the top of my head we have lost Hunt, Broyld, Estime, Foy, Morgan, Crume, Miller, Robinson, and Trudo to injury for at least a game. That is essentially 9 starters. Others missing time Arciniegia, Cornelius, Paris, Enoicy, Moore, McFarlane, W. Williams, Wilson, R. Williams, Hale (forever), Krautman (forever), Knapp (forever). I'm sure I am missing a few.

This is not a program that can withstand such a long list of injuries. Especially on on offense. I do not believe in writing off seasons, and the staff has made some head scratching decisions at times, but it's pretty difficult to go into battle with two of your best offensive weapons being true freshman. The silver lining is young players such as Long, Franklin, Ishmael, Cordy, etc are getting significant playing time much earlier than anticipated.

Here's a look at our division peers OOC schedules and note what is missing (hint, extra power conference team):

BC -USC, UMass, Maine, Colorado St
Pitt - Delaware, FIU, Iowa, Akron
NC St - Ga Southern, Presby, USF, and ODU
Wake - Garner Webb, Louisiana Monroe, Utah St, Army

We are clearly in the more difficult of the two conferences, having to face FSU, Clemson, and the Ville. Throw in ND and we have 3 1/2 booked losses before the season even starts. I can deal with ND if we don't book another BCS opponent like MD. It's not needed. We are playing for bowl eligibility at this point in the program's trajectory. We shouldn't be trying to impress playoff voters. At this juncture it is so important to make a bowl in order to sell the program to fans and recruits a like. It also allows the younger kids more practices to develop.

I understand where you're coming from, but not backing down from difficult non-conference opponents is one of the things I respect most about Syracuse football. I think this year's non-conference schedule was perfect… one 1-AA game, one mid-major, one solid BCS opponent and one showcase game. That's the formula that I would like us to follow every year. At the end of the day, the ACC isn't very good - we don't have to deal with anything like SEC, Big 12 or Pac-12 schools have to face week in and week out.