Our zone blows

[Lucid]

Here's hoping we continue to make good offensive teams look bad.

I only wish just once we wouldn't make a bad defensive team look good.

 

[Cowtown]

Because adjustments were made and they didn't get another look like they did.

This thread is to bash people but what's funny is the people who questioned our defense were asking for exactly what was done tonight. It's comical that people think we played up top tonight like we have all year.

I'm not entirely opposed to "situational motivation."

 

[007]

Yes, indeed. And they broke down and closed out as well. Very few flying leaps trying to block shots from 28 feet. They really came to meet the ball quite well. I enjoyed watching them play D tonight.

Great point, Cowtown. I was thinking the same thing watching the game. The close outs, which are extremely difficult to do given how much ground they have to cover on rotations, were the best they've been all year.

The other 2 things that stood out - they did not overreact to shot fakes or ball fakes, and they consistently stayed in front of attempts at dribble penetration which gave the help time to collapse and/or trap.

We have been very good to great on defense most of the year. Last night was a step up. That was a clinic.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Because adjustments were made and they didn't get another look like they did.

This thread is to bash people but what's funny is the people who questioned our defense were asking for exactly what was done tonight. It's comical that people think we played up top tonight like we have all year.

But that’s what’s been happening all year. This isn’t the first game where JB adjusted the zone on the fly, he talks about it all the time. Those clamoring for him to adjust don’t seem to wanna acknowledge that the real issue is whether or not the players execute the adjustments, not whether he calls for them at all, because of course he calls for them!
It’s not his first rodeo- he tells them where to adjust, and sometimes they carry it out to perfection, sometimes they don’t...& depending on how successful they are in doing so, is where he earns the big bucks. The implication that he just sits back and watches teams shred the Zone, while stubbornly refusing to try and stop them, is just silly. JMHO

 

[Cowtown]

Great point, Cowtown. I was thinking the same thing watching the game. The close outs, which are extremely difficult to do given how much ground they have to cover on rotations, were the best they've been all year.

The other 2 things that stood out - they did not overreact to shot fakes or ball fakes, and they consistently stayed in front of attempts at dribble penetration which gave the help time to collapse and/or trap.

We have been very good to great on defense most of the year. Last night was a step up. That was a clinic.

TCU was 3-17 at the arc, 0-8 in the 2nd half - so, under 18%. Slight edge in rebounding, but only seven T/O's - Frank had only two, which I didn't realize during the game, but that was big. I haven't seen a point off t/o's but it had to be low. So I'm guessing we didn't waste a lot of energy chasing guys we won't catch, scoring layups.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They hit 3 threes in the first 5 minutes and then didn't hit another one.

I remember thinking it was almost good they hit some so early because it was going to suck them into our trap. I think three of their first four baskets were threes.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

TCU was 3-17 at the arc, 0-8 in the 2nd half - so, under 18%. Slight edge in rebounding, but only seven T/O's - Frank had only two, which I didn't realize during the game, but that was big. I haven't seen a point off t/o's but it had to be low. So I'm guessing we didn't waste a lot of energy chasing guys we won't catch, scoring layups.

Wasn't one of those turnovers our first possession?

 

[Cowtown]

I remember thinking it was almost good they hit some so early because it was going to suck them into our trap. I think three of their first four baskets were threes.

In his video on how he plays a 2-3 defense, he says, "If you think you have to change after giving up a few threes, don't play zone. Because you're not a zone coach." This game was a good example of why it's important to understand that.

 

[JazzNC]

I'm ecstatic Syracuse won last night. But this thread is a perfect example of black and white thinking. I can't recall ANYONE ever writing that our zone blows.

I've seen people suggest that we rely on it too heavily. I've seen people say we should mix it up from time to time. I've also seen people post that the exclusive zone effects recruiting. But I have NEVER seen anyone post that our zone blows. EVER!

One can desire to mix it up, or voice concerns about it hurting recruiting without being critical of the zone itself. IMO our zone is special, and hard to duplicate. It is absolutely a weapon against unprepared teams.

The dichotomous thinking on this board never seems to amaze me. We won! Be happy! Be unified! Go Orange!

 

[dan7800]

Anyone else get the feeling that JB has some special "boost" button for the zone in the tournament. Our guys are playing with more energy and being smarter than they have all year. It seems to happen every tournament.

 

[two3zone]

I'm ecstatic Syracuse won last night. But this thread is a perfect example of black and white thinking. I can't recall ANYONE ever writing that our zone blows.

I've seen people suggest that we rely on it too heavily. I've seen people say we should mix it up from time to time. I've also seen people post that the exclusive zone effects recruiting. But I have NEVER seen anyone post that our zone is blows. EVER!

One can desire to mix it up, or voice concerns about it hurting recruiting without being critical of the zone itself. IMO our zone is special, and hard to duplicate. It is absolutely a weapon against unprepared teams.

The dichotomous thinking on this board never seems to amaze me. We won! Be happy! Be unified! Go Orange!

I will second this, have never seen anybody say this or anything close.

 

[721Comstock]

Anyone else get the feeling that JB has some special "boost" button for the zone in the tournament. Our guys are playing with more energy and being smarter than they have all year. It seems to happen every tournament.

I think it's the combo of:
players have been doing it all season now, so they get good at it
teams we're playing now, haven't seen it 2-3x a year like conference mates do, so that makes it even harder on them, especially on short notice.
players extra motivated to play harder - and it shows.

 

[NKR1978]

Our defense was good tonight. Odd that it got so much talk when their defense held us to 36% and shut down Battle, Brissett, and Howard and was never mentioned.

What was the last defense that didn't "hold us" to under 40%?

 

[br801]

I'm ecstatic Syracuse won last night. But this thread is a perfect example of black and white thinking. I can't recall ANYONE ever writing that our zone blows.

I've seen people suggest that we rely on it too heavily. I've seen people say we should mix it up from time to time. I've also seen people post that the exclusive zone effects recruiting. But I have NEVER seen anyone post that our zone blows. EVER!

One can desire to mix it up, or voice concerns about it hurting recruiting without being critical of the zone itself. IMO our zone is special, and hard to duplicate. It is absolutely a weapon against unprepared teams.

The dichotomous thinking on this board never seems to amaze me. We won! Be happy! Be unified! Go Orange!

I will second this, have never seen anybody say this or anything close.

Pretty sure the OP was going for irony.

 

[Ceerqqq]

This isn’t the first game where JB adjusted the zone on the fly, he talks about it all the time. Those clamoring for him to adjust don’t seem to wanna acknowledge that the real issue is whether or not the players execute the adjustments, not whether he calls for them at all, because of course he calls for them!

I know JB tries to teach his clubs every year, right from the start, how to turn the zone into a pressure defense weapon, but it does seem as though something clicks at this time of year.

I don't know what it is that Jimmy and his staff tell his players at tournament time to convince them that they can't take any defensive plays off in tournament games. We've seen it two games now and we saw it on our last FF run.

I imagine the entire staff preaches the word that the only way ANY team can win a national championship is if they can play defense at this level of intensity, applying this kind of pressure on the other team (no matter what kind of defense the play).

This year he seems to have added ferociously attacking the boards to the defensive intensity focus and its given this very young team the kind of hammer they need to be able to prevail against the giants in these Effort Is Everything contests.

 

[007]

Anyone else get the feeling that JB has some special "boost" button for the zone in the tournament. Our guys are playing with more energy and being smarter than they have all year. It seems to happen every tournament.

Yeah, I think the zone is at its best at NCAA tournament time mostly because teams have not had experience playing against that type of length and aggressive rotations AND because the pressure of making open shots is intensified under the lose and you're out format. Especially when SU is playing a higher seed.

 

[Eric15]

There are times when the zone is working phenomenally (e.g. last night) in which case we should stick with it.

But there are also times when the zone perhaps isn’t working as good as we would hope, in which case sprinkling in some man to man occasionally shouldn’t be forbidden.

Seems straightforward to me.

 

[Townie72]

There are times when the zone is working phenomenally (e.g. last night) in which case we should stick with it.

But there are also times when the zone perhaps isn’t working as good as we would hope, in which case sprinkling in some man to man occasionally shouldn’t be forbidden.

Seems straightforward to me.

The idea is straight forward alright

It's just that the thinking is muddled.

Switching into a defense that the opponent sees almost exclusively during the season and that they play themselves is a fundamentally bad idea. It's reminds me of Brer Rabbit and the Briar Patch. Opposing forces would love it.)

It's almost always suggested after SU losses by frustrated fans who mistakenly believe that M2M is always better against outside shooting. (An idea that has been disproven over and over again)

 

[Townie72]

His logic, assuming he has any, seems to be that our offense is poor because we practice against zone and don't know how to attack a man defense. I've always thought that we practice our offense against man because that is what most of our opponents play.

You are right. Charles is wrong.

Those ads with Charles are right. He really is dumb . Entertaining, but dumb.

 

[orangecuse]

Or so I have been told

I'm curious if you're still counting down the number of games we have left to play this season before it's "finally" over.

 

[Eric15]

It's almost always suggested after SU losses by frustrated fans who mistakenly believe that M2M is always better against outside shooting.

M2M isn't always better against outside shooting (I'm aware of our strong defensive metrics most seasons), but sometimes under certain circumstances against certain opponents it is. Hence why maintaining the ability to be flexible (in basketball and in life in general) is always a positive thing.

 

[jsshap]

Or so I have been told

I really was not that impressed with the zone against Az. State just because I thought Az. State was so scary bad (and I must admit I would not mind the 10 minutes of my life back that were spent reading the zone is great vs zone sucks exchange following that game) but I think I was wrong. This game largely validated your position. They've now made 2 good offensive teams look just awful offensively. And this was against a coach who knows the zone well and had time to prepare for it.

 

[PhatOrange]

Our coach blows to or so I’ve been told

 

[Eric15]

Our coach blows to or so I’ve been told

Other than like Igor, is there any single poster on this board who doesn't think Boeheim is one of the greatest coaches in NCAA history?

 

[DoctorBombay]

M2M isn't always better against outside shooting (I'm aware of our strong defensive metrics most seasons), but sometimes under certain circumstances against certain opponents it is. Hence why maintaining the ability to be flexible (in basketball and in life in general) is always a positive thing.

Games like last night where 5 minutes in you just knew TCU was gonna have issues w/ the zone, it’s a no-brainer, you stick w/ it till they force you out.
But generally, I would agree that there are times it’s better to mix it up a bit.
But as we all know, for better or worse JB is wedded to this defense, come hell or high-water. And frankly, that hasn’t been a bad deal at all.