Our zone blows

[Eric15]

Good cherry picking of a quote from JB.

Did you almost faint when you read that and realized that you may have actually disagreed with JB?

 

[DoctorBombay]

There are certainly people on this board who think Boeheim should be forced to retire...

There are certainly people who would rather have Hopkins right now, despite JB proving he is still a special, HOF coach.

I even remember someone espousing that JB doesn't coach as well or make adjustments in 9 PM games because he's an old man and it's past his bedtime!!! Are you KIDDING ME?!?

There’s a word for those kinda people...

 

[Day2]

I know JB tries to teach his clubs every year, right from the start, how to turn the zone into a pressure defense weapon, but it does seem as though something clicks at this time of year.

I don't know what it is that Jimmy and his staff tell his players at tournament time to convince them that they can't take any defensive plays off in tournament games. We've seen it two games now and we saw it on our last FF run.

I imagine the entire staff preaches the word that the only way ANY team can win a national championship is if they can play defense at this level of intensity, applying this kind of pressure on the other team (no matter what kind of defense the play).

This year he seems to have added ferociously attacking the boards to the defensive intensity focus and its given this very young team the kind of hammer they need to be able to prevail against the giants in these Effort Is Everything contests.

It’s like the concept of the game slowing down. We go through a rigorous conference schedule against teams that know exactly how to attack us and often do so with precision. Then we get to face teams that have little to no idea what they’re doing. All of a sudden, playing defense isn’t as hard as it was the previous few months, and as a result it’s more effective.

ASU didn’t have the patience to execute their offense for a full 40 minutes. TCU didn’t have a clue.

 

[Day2]

This board has been ridiculous about Boeheim this season, which is weird because just getting to the NCAAs was a major victory this year, let alone making it to round 2.

His best coaching job ever, even if we get blown out tomorrow. This team - given its limitations - had no business making the tournament, much less winning two games and shutting down two of the best offenses in the country.

 

[br801]

His best coaching job ever, even if we get blown out tomorrow. This team - given its limitations - had no business making the tournament, much less winning two games and shutting down two of the best offenses in the country.

I don't know if this is his best coaching job, but it's up there. We've actually seen his teams absolutely lock down very good offenses in the postseason on many occasions, so I can't say these last two games surprise me.

 

[Day2]

I don't know if this is his best coaching job, but it's up there. We've actually seen his teams absolutely lock down very good offenses in the postseason on many occasions, so I can't say these last two games surprise me.

Those teams had more talent and were much better on offense.

 

[Townie72]

Did you almost faint when you read that and realized that you may have actually disagreed with JB?

No. I got what he was saying.

And certainly this year he has to be wondering what could be done to get some more offense.

But whether he knows it or not, he has wandered into the realm of management wizard, W. Edwards Deming. Deming is the guy, along with a few others, who showed the Japanese how to stop producing junk and to start producing high quality products.

A major plank of Demings is the continual perfecting of processes. That's what JB has been doing, whether he has even heard of Deming or not. And by perfecting, I mean including recruiting into it.

 

[br801]

Those teams had more talent and were much better on offense.

Not always, and not always better offensively. This team actually has played well offensively for brief stretches, and certainly has a few guys who are seriously talented. Still, JB has done a superb job melding this group into a winning team which has rarely been out of any game.

 

[Arangeman]

Good cherry picking of a quote from JB.

Now go get all the reasons he plays 100% zone. You can start with his book, Bleeding Orange".

How anyone can be critical of the defensive strategy after watching SU vs ASU and TCU is a mystery to me. Arizona State scored 95 points against Kansas who played M2M.

That's from his book "Bleeding Orange"

11 insights from Jim Boeheim in his new book 'Bleeding Orange'

 

[DoctorBombay]

No. I got what he was saying.

And certainly this year he has to be wondering what could be done to get some more offense.

But whether he knows it or not, he has wandered into the realm of management wizard, W. Edwards Deming. Deming is the guy, along with a few others, who showed the Japanese how to stop producing junk and to start producing high quality products.

A major plank of Demings is the continual perfecting of processes. That's what JB has been doing, whether he has even heard of Deming or not. And by perfecting, I mean including recruiting into it.

Management principle of Kaizen:
Kaizen, also known as continuous improvement, is a long-term approach to work that systematically seeks to achieve small, incremental changes in processes in order to improve efficiency and quality.

 

[Lucid]

A major plank of Demings is the continual perfecting of processes. That's what JB has been doing, whether he has even heard of Deming or not. And by perfecting, I mean including recruiting into it.

I'll bet he's heard of Deming.

If I'm any opposing coach in this tournament, I do not want to face Syracuse right now, in spite of how ugly our offense is.

 

[Day2]

Not always, and not always better offensively. This team actually has played well offensively for brief stretches, and certainly has a few guys who are seriously talented. Still, JB has done a superb job melding this group into a winning team which has rarely been out of any game.

Name one team that was less talented and/or worse offensively.

 

[moqui]

Yeah, I think the zone is at its best at NCAA tournament time mostly because teams have not had experience playing against that type of length and aggressive rotations AND because the pressure of making open shots is intensified under the lose and you're out format. Especially when SU is playing a higher seed.

bobby hurley used a great phrase in his post game presser: syracuse drags you through long possessions. as the game goes on and the empty possessions pile up, it becomes mentally taxing. add that to the increased pressure just from being in the ncaat, and its easy to see how good teams wear down.

 

[moqui]

Other than like Igor, is there any single poster on this board who doesn't think Boeheim is one of the greatest coaches in NCAA history?

it's the hubris, eric. jb is not a perfect person, far from it, especially on the administrative side. but he is a basketball savant. he eats, drinks, sleeps, breathes, lives basketball; syracuse basketball especially. the idea that he hasn't weighed the costs and benefits of his all zone approach vs the "flexibility" our gaggle of amateurs demands of him is ludicrous. he certainly knows what the various options are and he absolutely knows what he's doing.

 

[Eric15]

it's the hubris, eric. jb is not a perfect person, far from it, especially on the administrative side. but he is a basketball savant. he eats, drinks, sleeps, breathes, lives basketball; syracuse basketball especially. the idea that he hasn't weighed the costs and benefits of his all zone approach vs the "flexibility" our gaggle of amateurs demands of him is ludicrous. he certainly knows what the various options are and he absolutely knows what he's doing.

Unless that syracuse.com article above misquoted him, JB himself admitted that due to his age, he's no longer as flexible as he once was. I'm just saying, in a perfect world, I wish he had the ability to sprinkle in some alternate defensive looks when the situation warranted it. Obviously last night that was not applicable, but sometimes it is.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’m fine with the questions about the offense, but we are 6th overall in defensive efficiency according to KenPom. We are just 3 points behind our 2013 team. in overall defense. This is our second best defensive team ever.

 

[Townie72]

it's the hubris, eric. jb is not a perfect person, far from it, especially on the administrative side. but he is a basketball savant. he eats, drinks, sleeps, breathes, lives basketball; syracuse basketball especially. the idea that he hasn't weighed the costs and benefits of his all zone approach vs the "flexibility" our gaggle of amateurs demands of him is ludicrous. he certainly knows what the various options are and he absolutely knows what he's doing.

Perfectly said.

That JB would go off pretty much alone in this all zone approach demonstrates how willing he is to try something radically different. What he gets from the "gaggle of amateurs" is derision for being stubborn and inflexible.

As others have pointed out, he is a devoted user of statistics (Analytics).

He is intellectually and theoretically way ahead of most of the pack of coaches who are pretty much doing what they learned from their coaches.

 

[moqui]

Unless that syracuse.com article above misquoted him, JB himself admitted that due to his age, he's no longer as flexible as he once was. I'm just saying, in a perfect world, I wish he had the ability to sprinkle in some alternate defensive looks when the situation warranted it. Obviously last night that was not applicable, but sometimes it is.

jb sez shjt. watch what he do not what he say

 

[Townie72]

Unless that syracuse.com article above misquoted him, JB himself admitted that due to his age, he's no longer as flexible as he once was. I'm just saying, in a perfect world, I wish he had the ability to sprinkle in some alternate defensive looks when the situation warranted it. Obviously last night that was not applicable, but sometimes it is.

There is no perfect world.

And maybe what he is doing is trying to throw them off the track. Part of the effectiveness of the zone is how rare it is, especially the way SU plays it, recruits for it, etc.

Why give the competition the recipe for Classic Coke?

 

[djcon57]

it's the hubris, eric. jb is not a perfect person, far from it, especially on the administrative side. but he is a basketball savant. he eats, drinks, sleeps, breathes, lives basketball; syracuse basketball especially. the idea that he hasn't weighed the costs and benefits of his all zone approach vs the "flexibility" our gaggle of amateurs demands of him is ludicrous. he certainly knows what the various options are and he absolutely knows what he's doing.

Using this same formula. Coach K doesn't know what he's doing

 

[djcon57]

That's from his book "Bleeding Orange"

11 insights from Jim Boeheim in his new book 'Bleeding Orange'

Lolololol

 

[moqui]

Unless that syracuse.com article above misquoted him, JB himself admitted that due to his age, he's no longer as flexible as he once was. I'm just saying, in a perfect world, I wish he had the ability to sprinkle in some alternate defensive looks when the situation warranted it. Obviously last night that was not applicable, but sometimes it is.

another way to read that quote is "if i was 40 years old, with about a third of the knowledge & experience that i've actually accumulated, i might think that was the way to go, too."

old & wise jim throwing shade at young & inexperienced jim

 

[Arangeman]

another way to read that quote is "if i was 40 years old, with about a third of the knowledge & experience that i've actually accumulated, i might think that was the way to go, too."

old & wise jim throwing shade at young & inexperienced jim

That's kind of a stretch. Why not just take the quote at face value?

Again, it's JB's response that is in his book, that he co-authored. Hard to believe it's just him saying stuff.

However you feel about exclusive zone, running, etc. it behooves everyone to listen to JB himself for the reasons why.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

What was the last defense that didn't "hold us" to under 40%?

...and our three best players under their averages? I dunno. Was it a zone?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We held those two teams to, what, a combined 60 points below their average?

I thought Dixon had the zone " figured out" and "knows how to beat it"

Their first play of the game was perfect, then almost zero classic zone plays