Class of 2017 PG Tremont Waters (CT) to LSU

[HoustonCuse]

I think you are overstating the importance of this one recruit. Just like many overstated reaction to losing out on QG.

Hop getting to know if GMac will be his head recruiter is much more of a long term concern.

Tremont is a new unexpected possibility. I have thought all along the staff has a backup 5th year in mind for the final JB season.

I completely agree that it should be important for Hop to develop Gerry as a recruiter for the long term (or figure out if he can't do it and replace him). But these recruits are critically important. If we go a couple years without a credible PG growing in the program, Hop is likely to lose this job before the end of 3-4 years. This just isn't the spot to be developing a noobie recruiter.

 

[Toga]

This isn't football people. You are only signing 3-4 kids a year. It's kind of a shoulder season on top of it. What is this "lead recruiter" crap? It's all hands on deck and that primarily means Hop. Has he got better things to do? Let me repeat. Does he have better things to do? Is there some sort of off year Team USA responsibility or something? Whether GMac has the personality to be a good recruiter is a good topic for another thread I suppose. But assuming this GMac is assigned as lead recruiter on Waters is true - well please let there be a rationale that would make us feel good which is not apparent to any of us.

 

[Jasoncuse]

No way am I Francis, but my theory is that Hopkins knows that he is taking over and is beginning to try and implement his own system and style of recruiting. For years JB had a guy in Hopkins who he could let loose to reel in the big dogs. I think Hopkins is really trying to prep GMac to be that guy for him.

If you think about it, JB has never been our main recruiter, it's always been Hopkins, Red, etc. I would like to think that Hopkins will be more involved in recruiting than JB has been for the past decade, but he can't be the only guy on the staff able to get top talent. At some point the assistants have to have some autonomy to handle their business on the road.

I see this as a period of transition where Hop is still figuring out how involved he wants to be and who is go to assistant will be. Eventually Gerry needs to start landing these dudes, but he also needs time to learn the ins and outs. Remember, JB has always been a hands off guy. One thing people can't call JB is a micromanager. Hopkins has been groomed under this style, and we have to hope that he doesn't fall into the trap of being a figure head recruiter.

If that is what it is, then I have no faith in Hop. He should be full speed ahead trying to load up for when he takes over. He shouldn't be dabbling with who might be a good recruiter before he is even the HC. I find it hard to believe this would be the reason, but then again, I find it hard to believe Hop hasn't been burning the trails this past year.

If Hop wants to play around and recruit like he's been the HC for 40 years, he may want to polish up the old resume.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I think you are overstating the importance of this one recruit. Just like many overstated reaction to losing out on QG.

Hop getting to know if GMac will be his head recruiter is much more of a long term concern.

Tremont is a new unexpected possibility. I have thought all along the staff has a backup 5th year in mind for the final JB season.

Sorry, but this is way off, IMO. If Hop wants to succeed, he needs to have guns a blazing when he takes over. You don't follow a legend and play around trying to figure out who your lead recruiter will be. You load up as much as you can and figure that out later.

This isn't just one recruit. This is the whole process we're talking about. The longer we stay in a quagmire, the tougher it'll be to get out. Why Hop wouldn't be recruiting like a mad man is beyond me. Unless there is something else going on (JB staying 5 years, some sort of health issue, family issue, etc), Hop needs to be treating this time more as an audition and period to lock in his status as THE guy, and less as a delegator. When a top 40 kid, one that plays at a crucial position, a position we've been weak at for years, becomes available and we have a shot, we have to send the big guns.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I couldn't disagree more with this post. First, we have already seen G-mac strike out. This is a second bite of the apple. We have no pt guard for next year. This kid gives us a chance to change out recruiting for this year. We have to put our best up front.

Not only would this change our 2017 class and outlook for he '17-18 season, it could be the shot in the arm we need for recruiting. It could help set up next year's class.

 

[20Plus]

Tremont Waters in Holding Pattern Until Released From Georgetown | Zagsblog

 

[GonzoInMD]

You guys are really jumping the gun here as regards to this recruitment. He hasn't been released by GT yet. If/when that happens, then we will find out who is the lead recruiter. Until then, all these assumptions are pointless.

 

[kjb120]

Why don't we put Autry on more of these recruits, if Hopkins isn't going to be the lead recruiter for these big time recruits why are we trying so hard to have gmac be the guy? I know Autry's connections are more in the Maryland and D.C. areas but I can't see gmac being a better recruiter then a guy that's been doing this for years.

 

[dasher]

You guys are really jumping the gun here as regards to this recruitment. He hasn't been released by GT yet. If/when that happens, then we will find out who is the lead recruiter. Until then, all these assumptions are pointless.

Are you saying Francis isn't right? He has a pretty good track record. I would be reluctant to doubt him.

 

[Trueblue25]

You guys are really jumping the gun here as regards to this recruitment. He hasn't been released by GT yet. If/when that happens, then we will find out who is the lead recruiter. Until then, all these assumptions are pointless.

 

[Francis03]

Francis, can you shed some more light on things for us? You are clearly plugged in to the highest degree and I completely trust your takes on everything. You know I'm your #1 fan. But I also want to be devils advocate here to a small degree because I don't understand.

The primary conclusion people are drawing from you've said in the thread here is that Hopkins has less knowledge of the situation than you do and has less desire to succeed than us Joe Blow fans do. Either that or something completely different is happening that nobody is talking about or nobody knows about. I hope that what I said is no way insulting to you because it is 100% not intended to be that. I'm crossing my fingers that you don't think I'm calling you out as you are my #1 ranked poster here at the Fan!!

Let me explain my reasoning. These are things that I take as absolute fact - correct me if any of this is incorrect:
1. Hopkins has at least as much knowledge and awareness of the recruiting situation with respect to Waters and his family as any fan or recruiting analyst would have. That would include knowing how difficult it will be for us to land him, who our competition is, and the relative sense of sending GMac (or any other assistant) to be the guy.
2. Hopkins has a higher motivation to succeed as Head Coach at Syracuse than any of us fans have to see the team win. This isn't just a fan situation for him. It is the culmination of his life's work, the continuation of his mentor's legacy, and the promise of being able to put food on the table going forward.
3. Hopkins has never given indications of being lazy.

So given all that, there must be something we don't know, right? I suppose a possibility is that Hopkins sees the need to build recruiting experience within his staff, but this particluar recruit at this particular time certainly appears to be a poor chance to do that. There will be plenty of other lower level lower importance recruits to cut your teeth on if you are GMac. But again - Hopkins certainly knows that.

Another, darker, possibility is that there is substantial strife and chaos within the program between JB and Hop over if/when/how Hop will take over. That seems far fetched, but in order to explain this, I'm struggling to come up with causes for the seemingly bizarre behavior.

All I'm doing is passing off info that I've received from reliable sources. However way that you want to take it is on you. I would hope that I wouldn't know more than Hop or be more plugged in than him in these situations. I don't believe that is the case though and I'm not trying to imply that the staff is mailing it in or simply don't care anymore. We can only go by the present and the actions pretty much speak for themselves. The staff isn't presently bringing their A game in most of these recruitments. Wish I had the answers as to why that is the case but I don't. Like I said, all I can do is pass off what I can share. Some of the other stuff that you and others may want to know are things that only the coaches themselves can explain why such and such is going on. I personally do think things would run much smoother and things wouldn't be so chaotic if Hop was handed the keys at this point. I know it's been reported that next season is suppose to be JB's last year, but he has not come out and definitely say that is the case. You have a majority of media members who think JB is going to coach for as long as he wants and I'm sure other schools competing against us for players are saying the same thing. Once stability in the program is set and people finally get to see what the Hop era/playing style will look like and the staff that he puts together is when I think we'll see things get back on track in recruiting.

 

[HoustonCuse]

All I'm doing is passing off info that I've received from reliable sources. However way that you want to take it is on you. I would hope that I wouldn't know more than Hop or be more plugged in than him in these situations. I don't believe that is the case though and I'm not trying to imply that the staff is mailing it in or simply don't care anymore. We can only go by the present and the actions pretty much speak for themselves. The staff isn't presently bringing their A game in most of these recruitments. Wish I had the answers as to why that is the case but I don't. Like I said, all I can do is pass off what I can share. Some of the other stuff that you and others may want to know are things that only the coaches themselves can explain why such and such is going on. I personally do think things would run much smoother and things wouldn't be so chaotic if Hop was handed the keys at this point. I know it's been reported that next season is suppose to be JB's last year, but he has not come out and definitely say that is the case. You have a majority of media members who think JB is going to coach for as long as he wants and I'm sure other schools competing against us for players are saying the same thing. Once stability in the program is set and people finally get to see what the Hop era/playing style will look like and the staff that he puts together is when I think we'll see things get back on track in recruiting.

Thank you for the response. Strange situation all the way round. Lets hope it gets stabilized soon like you said.

 

[hoopsupstate]

If GMAC is the lead recruiter for Waters, I would think it's because he recruited Moyer so he has some kind of relationship with Waters. I'm sure they know more about what's going on than we do.

 

[Toga]

If GMAC is the lead recruiter for Waters, I would think it's because he recruited Moyer so he has some kind of relationship with Waters. I'm sure they know more about what's going on than we do.

Well at least that makes some sense. Maybe I don't understand, especially during the low season recruiting wise, why we couldn't have both Hop and GMac on the case. maybe they are, IDK

 

[FrancoPizza]

All I'm doing is passing off info that I've received from reliable sources. However way that you want to take it is on you. I would hope that I wouldn't know more than Hop or be more plugged in than him in these situations. I don't believe that is the case though and I'm not trying to imply that the staff is mailing it in or simply don't care anymore. We can only go by the present and the actions pretty much speak for themselves. The staff isn't presently bringing their A game in most of these recruitments. Wish I had the answers as to why that is the case but I don't. Like I said, all I can do is pass off what I can share. Some of the other stuff that you and others may want to know are things that only the coaches themselves can explain why such and such is going on. I personally do think things would run much smoother and things wouldn't be so chaotic if Hop was handed the keys at this point. I know it's been reported that next season is suppose to be JB's last year, but he has not come out and definitely say that is the case. You have a majority of media members who think JB is going to coach for as long as he wants and I'm sure other schools competing against us for players are saying the same thing. Once stability in the program is set and people finally get to see what the Hop era/playing style will look like and the staff that he puts together is when I think we'll see things get back on track in recruiting.

That's a damming assessment of JB. He's not oblivious to the instability and mixed messages.

 

[Francis03]

If GMAC is the lead recruiter for Waters, I would think it's because he recruited Moyer so he has some kind of relationship with Waters. I'm sure they know more about what's going on than we do.

The Moyer connection and the fact that he coaches the guards as he would be the one mainly dealing with Waters is why I think they would send him as the lead on this. Main thing is just getting the kid and his family on campus for a visit. Sell him on PT, HOF coach last season, being the first PG to jump start the Hop era, being closer to home compared to Kansas, Duke etc etc. Issue will be that with so many programs needing guards this spring, I could see this recruitment milking out for a bit and becoming a circus. That's something we aren't strangers of tho, especially after last year with the recruitments of TT and AW3.

 

[KevMonstah]

uh oh, trying to follow Francis03 ...

whoever tries to recruit this kid for SU, he has to overcome the fact that SU didn't give him
the time of day the first time around, and unlike Duval, he remained a car ride away. that's
a big overcome, I'd think.

one question/comment on guys who do the recruiting. i mean, does it really matter who SU
sends as the lead guy? you know what SU offers as a program, right? everyone does. you
know what UK offers, you know what Kansas, Duke, and other top programs offer. a guy is
not going to choose a program or not because assistantA camps out at his door / contacts him
every day, cuz there's a strong chance assistantA leaves. there's only a few assistants that have
been mentioned on the boards as mattering much, the guy at AZ richardson, the guy at Oregon
from Canada, maybe a couple of others. you could send me, i'd beg / plead / overpromise on a
daily basis, list all great about SU, why it's better, but if the head coach isn't going to put in the
effort, it's not going to matter. quade's coach said GMac did everything he could've, but it seems
it came down to Calipari present, JB not, and that was that. get hop AND JB after this guy,
use Moyer, say they messed up related to a lot of players recently, lost their focus, etc, and
talk what he could do. and while at it, i'd suggest losing the public doghousing of a player,
but that's a different topic.

kev

 

[dasher]

uh oh, trying to follow Francis03 ...

whoever tries to recruit this kid for SU, he has to overcome the fact that SU didn't give him
the time of day the first time around, and unlike Duval, he remained a car ride away. that's
a big overcome, I'd think.

one question/comment on guys who do the recruiting. i mean, does it really matter who SU
sends as the lead guy? you know what SU offers as a program, right? everyone does. you
know what UK offers, you know what Kansas, Duke, and other top programs offer. a guy is
not going to choose a program or not because assistantA camps out at his door / contacts him
every day, cuz there's a strong chance assistantA leaves. there's only a few assistants that have
been mentioned on the boards as mattering much, the guy at AZ richardson, the guy at Oregon
from Canada, maybe a couple of others. you could send me, i'd beg / plead / overpromise on a
daily basis, list all great about SU, why it's better, but if the head coach isn't going to put in the
effort, it's not going to matter. quade's coach said GMac did everything he could've, but it seems
it came down to Calipari present, JB not, and that was that. get hop AND JB after this guy,
use Moyer, say they messed up related to a lot of players recently, lost their focus, etc, and
talk what he could do. and while at it, i'd suggest losing the public doghousing of a player,
but that's a different topic.

kev

Like everything else in life, there is a talent to recruiting. I would rather have Weaver recruiting this kid than G-mac. Just the way it is.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Like everything else in life, there is a talent to recruiting. I would rather have Weaver recruiting this kid than G-mac. Just the way it is.

We hired Murphy to replace Weaver and he delivered. We hired Red to replace Murphy because of his Mid Atlantic recruiting ties and i kind of think it's been a mixed bag. He did well with Thompson and White, but there's some other guys he never engaged for whatever reason.

 

[Ward]

We hired Murphy to replace Weaver and he delivered. We hired Red to replace Murphy because of his Mid Atlantic recruiting ties and i kind of think it's been a mixed bag. He did well with Thompson and White, but there's some other guys he never engaged for whatever reason.

I think Red has maybe flown under the radar for some but done a really good job for us. I could be mistaken but I think he's "credited" with the below list:

• Jerami
• Gbinije
• Ennis
• Roberson?
• McCullough
• Frank Howard
• Diagne?
• Thompson
• White
• Brissett
• I know he took us from not even being in the picture to getting a visit from Matt Coleman before we uninvited him to campus...

I wish he was lead on more of our 2017 targets and we're probably in a different boat right now.

 

[EastCoast2]

I think Red has maybe flown under the radar for some but done a really good job for us. I could be mistaken but I think he's "credited" with the below list:

• Jerami
• Gbinije
• Ennis
• Roberson?
• McCullough
• Frank Howard
• Diagne?
• Thompson
• White
• Brissett
• I know he took us from not even being in the picture to getting a visit from Matt Coleman before we uninvited him to campus...

I wish he was lead on more of our 2017 targets and we're probably in a different boat right now.

GMac needs his recruiting responsibilities revoked.

 

[Francis03]

I think Red has maybe flown under the radar for some but done a really good job for us. I could be mistaken but I think he's "credited" with the below list:

• Jerami
• Gbinije
• Ennis
• Roberson?
• McCullough
• Frank Howard
• Diagne?
• Thompson
• White
• Brissett
• I know he took us from not even being in the picture to getting a visit from Matt Coleman before we uninvited him to campus...

I wish he was lead on more of our 2017 targets and we're probably in a different boat right now.

He would've gotten us Jelly Dimes too and we wouldn't be in this current mess desperate for a PG.

 

[Ward]

He would've gotten us Jelly Dimes too and we wouldn't be in this current mess desperate for a PG.

Crazy, the more I think about it the more I'm in disbelief and just have to laugh at how badly we botched this 2017 guard recruiting class. We really defied the odds in missing on all of those NE perimeter prospects. Now we have an absolute gift fall to us by Waters becoming available and early signs are we're taking the same approach.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Crazy, the more I think about it the more I'm in disbelief and just have to laugh at how badly we botched this 2017 guard recruiting class. We really defied the odds in missing on all of those NE perimeter prospects. Now we have an absolute gift fall to us by Waters becoming available and early signs are we're taking the same approach.

Hey, maybe this plan will work some day!!

I still can't believe that the class we have right now is about the complete opposite of whatever everybody thought we'd get at this time last year. We all thought we'd get a big, talented class coming off the Final Four and with so many spots open.

 

[stone567]

I think Red has maybe flown under the radar for some but done a really good job for us. I could be mistaken but I think he's "credited" with the below list:

• Jerami
• Gbinije
• Ennis
• Roberson?
• McCullough
• Frank Howard
• Diagne?
• Thompson
• White
• Brissett
• I know he took us from not even being in the picture to getting a visit from Matt Coleman before we uninvited him to campus...

I wish he was lead on more of our 2017 targets and we're probably in a different boat right now.

Thank you for stating this. Autry maybe our best recruiter, and if he stays, he would be Hopkin's lead recruiter. In the short time he has been back, look at how many recruits he has brought in. The big question will be if Hopkins can afford to keep GMac unless he shows himself to be a recruiter. Personally, I would love to see what Allan Griffin could do. Dayton has become a mid-major power.