Red #8

[pwong]

Because that's what Red's performance merits, and it would happen at any serious program. It seems like only folks that have access and/or know Red personally are holding on to him at this point.

Imagine how ugly it's going to be when the team is still uncompetitive and Kiyan is playing in front of a mostly empty dome. It's going to tarnish Melo's legacy, and be ugly for all involved. It's a nightmare scenario that many here seem to be happily racing towards.

This is probably the correct take. Those who know Red personally and the local media won’t blame the coaching and more so the lack of NIL (they are not mutually exclusive issues).

I will say, Red seems to be a nice guy and seems to know what move to make (good with media, recruits well, coaching/GM hires, etc) but he just can’t seem to coach and have the x’s and o’s at an adequate enough level (which is the most important part of the job).

 

[kingtidge]

Because that's what Red's performance merits, and it would happen at any serious program. It seems like only folks that have access and/or know Red personally are holding on to him at this point.

Imagine how ugly it's going to be when the team is still uncompetitive and Kiyan is playing in front of a mostly empty dome. It's going to tarnish Melo's legacy, and be ugly for all involved. It's a nightmare scenario that many here seem to be happily racing towards.

It's sobering if you are being honest.

 

[RF2044]

Because that's what Red's performance merits, and it would happen at any serious program. It seems like only folks that have access and/or know Red personally are holding on to him at this point.

Imagine how ugly it's going to be when the team is still uncompetitive and Kiyan is playing in front of a mostly empty dome. It's going to tarnish Melo's legacy, and be ugly for all involved. It's a nightmare scenario that many here seem to be happily racing towards.

People who were psychologically entrenched in Red being JB's replacement, and people with personal connections to Red and / or the staff.

And I agree, hard not to envision next year being like Coach P's end at Syracuse, losing the fanbase, attendance being down, and the poor performance / blowouts becoming more common.

Lots of excuses being made at this point. High major college basketball coaching is a performance driven profession.

 

[Cusefan0307]

People who were psychologically entrenched in Red being JB's replacement, and people with personal connections to Red and / or the staff.

And I agree, hard not to envision next year being like Coach P's end at Syracuse, losing the fanbase, attendance being down, and the poor performance / blowouts becoming more common.

Lots of excuses being made at this point. High major college basketball coaching is a performance driven profession.

Aren't we here now? This feels more like Scott Shafer than Coach P. A nice guy in over his head.

 

[RF2044]

Aren't we here now? Honestly this feels more like Scott Shafer than Coach P. A nice guy in over his head.

You're probably right.

The difference [in my head] was that the fanbase was reasonably excited heading into this season, only to have that bubble pop in the first game.

If Red is given a third year [which I expect], then I expect the fanbase to be really disengaged and resigned to the losing continuing -- Kiyan Anthony or not.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I have no idea how the portal will pan out, but if Red kills it everyone will forget this season and look forward to next year. It’s what fans do. Next year has to be a blend of excellent portal additions to support the younger players.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You're probably right.

The difference [in my head] was that the fanbase was reasonably excited heading into this season, only to have that bubble pop in the first game.

If Red is given a third year [which I expect], then I expect the fanbase to be really disengaged -- Kiyan Anthony or not.

I'm 100% certain he's getting a 3rd year at this point, but if its those 3 freshmen leading the way I'll be the first one to start the "We are going to suck again" next year thread.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I have no idea how the portal will pan out, but if Red kills it everyone will forget this season and look forward to next year. It’s what fans do. Next year has to be a blend of excellent portal additions to support the younger players.

Sell me on how Red turns this around. We are completely uncompetitive against anyone with a pulse. He has one decent win in almost two years.

 

[Sbucketball]

Melo better have unlimited money because what portal player who wants to win is going to want to come to this dumpster fire unless we way overpay for kids. Every loss is just hurting our chances to attract top level portal players and costing Melo more money.

This is the main reason I think next year's talent won't be a 180 like some expect. Due to this bad season, portal recruiting will be harder and more expensive and we're not equipped to handle that. And our incoming freshmen are nice players but aren't changing anything -- they would come off the bench on this team. I just don't see it.

 

[RF2044]

I have no idea how the portal will pan out, but if Red kills it everyone will forget this season and look forward to next year. It’s what fans do. Next year has to be a blend of excellent portal additions to support the younger players.

It has to, because there is going to be mass-attrition.

We graduate 5 seniors [McLeod, Lampkin, Davis, Taylor, and Carlos].

We probably lose at least two transfers portalling out [Bell and Westry]. I would be absolutely stunned if either of these two players returns.

In addition to those two, we might also lose additional players who might opt out of this shiz show, to play in better situations or transfer down a level -- I'm not predicting that these guys will leave, but would anyone be surprised if Donnie leaves, JJ leaves, or Cuffe leaves?

We are bringing in three recruits, to offset those losses.

So we are going to HAVE to dip into the portal just to field a roster, and have sufficient depth. Red "killing it" via the portal is going to be questionable -- given that many thought that he "killed it" LAST offseason, only to have the transfers generally underwhelm [Davis and Taylor seem like decent players, and Lampkin is intermittently good].

I have to believe that the fanbase is going to be skeptical, no matter who is brought in. In a pivotal year, when roster continuity would be a good thing, we'll have anything but.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Red kills it, so what????

He still has to coach, develop, and put the players in a position to succeed.

Zero of which are happening. The portal and NIL are not as important as Kenny Payne 2.0 being at the helm.

You forgot getting them to play hard. There's a reason we are losing at the start of every game. Zero intensity.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Not for nothing, and just looking at 247, but Indiana had the 2nd ranked team in portal transfers prior to this season. Syracuse was 53rd. Louisville with their gobs of NIL was 27th. Rutgers was the 4th ranked team in HS recruiting.

Woodson is probably the most likely D1 coach to be canned at the end of the season, and Pikiell probably isn't far behind him. Talent matters but so does coaching.

 

[littlereg]

I watched professional video games over our game last night even with it being practically the only thing 9’ that late sports wise I care about. I haven’t watched more than a minute or two since Brooklyn.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It has to, because there is going to be mass-attrition.

We graduate 5 seniors [McLeod, Lampkin, Davis, Taylor, and Carlos].

We probably lose at least two transfers portalling out [Bell and Westry]. I would be absolutely stunned if either of these two players returns.

In addition to those two, we might also lose additional players who might opt out of this shiz show, to play in better situations or transfer down a level -- I'm not predicting that these guys will leave, but would anyone be surprised if Donnie leaves, JJ leaves, or Cuffe leaves?

We are bringing in three recruits, to offset those losses.

So we are going to HAVE to dip into the portal just to field a roster, and have sufficient depth. Red "killing it" via the portal is going to be questionable -- given that many thought that he "killed it" LAST offseason, only to have the transfers generally underwhelm [Davis and Taylor seem like decent players, and Lampkin is intermittently good].

I have to believe that the fanbase is going to be skeptical, no matter who is brought in. In a pivotal year, when roster continuity would be a good thing, we'll have anything but.

We are bringing in four recruits.

 

[RF2044]

Not for nothing, and just looking at 247, but Indiana had the 2nd ranked team in portal transfers prior to this season. Syracuse was 53rd. Louisville with their gobs of NIL was 27th. Rutgers was the 4th ranked team in HS recruiting.

Woodson is probably the most likely D1 coach to be canned at the end of the season, and Pikiell probably isn't far behind him. Talent matters but so does coaching.

Spot on.

I think what a segment of the fanbase might be clinging to is that Red will be fine if we can just add better players. But is that true? To your point, is there any tangible evidence that he can coach well, teach the game well, help players improve, etc.?

 

[RF2044]

We are bringing in four recruits.

My bad -- forgot about Womack, who is a prospect I like a lot, but who is realistically a year away.

Point being, we might have somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-7 players, pending portal transfers, with four of those being incoming frosh.

Not exactly a formula for success.

The portal guys better be studs, or we could be even worse next year.

 

[MikeSU02]

Not for nothing, and just looking at 247, but Indiana had the 2nd ranked team in portal transfers prior to this season. Syracuse was 53rd. Louisville with their gobs of NIL was 27th. Rutgers was the 4th ranked team in HS recruiting.

Woodson is probably the most likely D1 coach to be canned at the end of the season, and Pikiell probably isn't far behind him. Talent matters but so does coaching.

This is the biggest thing. I don't know how anyone can say that believe Red is the guy just on coaching.

We cannot defend the high pick and roll. Our offense, when it does work, is from a time decades ago. We are only top 100 in these reg categories: 2PT FGA, 2PT FGs Made (not 2PT %), DREB, Total Rebounds. This is great if we had Patrick Ewing.

We are behind most games at the first TV TOs.

We won last year, it is looking very clearly like, because Maliq and Judah were better than who we have this year.

I don't know what else to say. Our talent is a whole other discussion (or even just the way guys are casted), but the actions on the floor tell me that coaching is very poor.

Our best win is ND at #89 in NET. That is awful. We haven't beaten any decent team. None. And the ACC is having one of its worst years ever.

 

[JustPherU]

Who said that? I know I didn’t. But you have 2 top 30 kids who are coming to play here next year who are getting national exposure. It helps the program and it helps with fundraising. And they are coming to play for Autry. Man some of you will literally find anything bad to say

I don’t buy that they are coming just because of Red being the coach.If anything they are probably hoping for his dismissal.

 

[FrancoPizza]

This feels like Syracuse football with Dino in November of 2022. We have to run out the clock for another 13 months.

This is different. Dino received an extension that we had to buyout. What kind of buyout could red possibly have?

 

[RF2044]

This is the biggest thing. I don't know how anyone can say that believe Red is the guy just on coaching.

We cannot defend the high pick and roll. Our offense, when it does work, is from a time decades ago. We are only top 100 in these reg categories: 2PT FGA, 2PT FGs Made (not 2PT %), DREB, Total Rebounds. This is great if we had Patrick Ewing.

We are behind most games at the first TV TOs.

We won last year, it is looking very clearly like, because Maliq and Judah were better than who we have this year.

I don't know what else to say. Our talent is a whole other discussion (or even just the way guys are casted), but the actions on the floor tell me that coaching is very poor.

Our best win is ND at #89 in NET. That is awful. We haven't beaten any decent team. None. And the ACC is having one of its worst years ever.

Couldn't agree more, across the board.

I think the rationalized fallacy is that somehow, Kiyan / White are going to come in and suddenly we're going to be good. I like both of them, I think that they are great prospects, very solid.

But program changers? Probably not.

ESPECIALLY if we lose a Freeman, a JJ, etc. and go into next year with a depleted roster.

When those guys committed to Syracuse, back in November, the outlook was different. We were coming off of a moderately successful season, and the hope was that with a roster of "his guys" that the results would improve -- given that several of the guys were overtly disruptive and / or resisted Red's coaching.

But we've slipped a notch. And Red's capabilities [or lack thereof] have been exposed. And I have to wonder if players like Anthony / White and their respective camps are more nervous today than they were in November, when the expectation was that the program / head coach were on the way up.

 

[Scooch]

You're probably right.

The difference [in my head] was that the fanbase was reasonably excited heading into this season, only to have that bubble pop in the first game.

If Red is given a third year [which I expect], then I expect the fanbase to be really disengaged and resigned to the losing continuing -- Kiyan Anthony or not.

Yup. No one’s buying season tickets because Melo’s kid is coming here. He and White will be a curiosity for the first few games and that’ll be that. Especially if we’re a .500 (or worse) team again.

We all know Autry is coming back. We’re just left to hope somehow they add $5 million to the NIL fund and buy themselves a new starting 5. Hopefully this offseason we buy guys from Power 5 programs and not the CAA.

 

[djcon57]

This is the biggest thing. I don't know how anyone can say that believe Red is the guy just on coaching.

We cannot defend the high pick and roll. Our offense, when it does work, is from a time decades ago. We are only top 100 in these reg categories: 2PT FGA, 2PT FGs Made (not 2PT %), DREB, Total Rebounds. This is great if we had Patrick Ewing.

We are behind most games at the first TV TOs.

We won last year, it is looking very clearly like, because Maliq and Judah were better than who we have this year.

I don't know what else to say. Our talent is a whole other discussion (or even just the way guys are casted), but the actions on the floor tell me that coaching is very poor.

Our best win is ND at #89 in NET. That is awful. We haven't beaten any decent team. None. And the ACC is having one of its worst years ever.

I'd add on...because our defense is so hideous, when we are allegedly "close", like last night we got within 6...we're basically down 12. We can't get stops.

 

[jdubs30]

Not for nothing, and just looking at 247, but Indiana had the 2nd ranked team in portal transfers prior to this season. Syracuse was 53rd. Louisville with their gobs of NIL was 27th. Rutgers was the 4th ranked team in HS recruiting.

Woodson is probably the most likely D1 coach to be canned at the end of the season, and Pikiell probably isn't far behind him. Talent matters but so does coaching.

Spot on.

I think what a segment of the fanbase might be clinging to is that Red will be fine if we can just add better players. But is that true? To your point, is there any tangible evidence that he can coach well, teach the game well, help players improve, etc.?

The right collection of players could conceivably overcome bad coaching to win a decent amount of games. If we had Dukes roster with our coaches, we would no doubt be a tournament team. The problem is when the talent isn’t good, the coaching is even more important, and that’s where we are falling incredibly short.

 

[hoopsupstate]

My bad -- forgot about Womack, who is a prospect I like a lot, but who is realistically a year away.

Point being, we might have somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-7 players, pending portal transfers, with four of those being incoming frosh.

Not exactly a formula for success.

The portal guys better be studs, or we could be even worse next year.

That’s why I said Red needs to kill it in the portal or we will be very questionable next year. The problem with the portal is that everyone is going to go after the studs. I’m not sure we are attractive enough to players or do we have the funds to compete with other schools.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The right collection of players could conceivably overcome bad coaching to win a decent amount of games. If we had Dukes roster with our coaches, we would no doubt be a tournament team. The problem is when the talent isn’t good, the coaching is even more important, and that’s where we are falling incredibly short.

Duke may be the only school that can overcome bad coaching. Even so, if Scheyer doesn’t win a natty soon with his salary cap the Dukies are going to get restless. Pikiell and Woodson are terrible coaches with talent.