Richie Incognito suspended by team for bullying

[Tobias Funke]

If that's racism than every player in the NFL is racist, and every person ive ever played football and basketball with in high school or pick up games at the park is racist. I've heard the word "Cracker" and "Whiteboy" thrown around by black people nonstop, and ive also seen white people say the N-word during games. I don't personally, but the people who do, I dont consider racist...its the culture. Just like people who use gay slurs in locker rooms arent exactly homophobic.

So you don't think white people who use the N word are racist?

 

[longislandcuse]

So you don't think white people who use the N word are racist?

Clearly you haven't read anything I've said so you're asking a stupid question out of context.

Is a black person who calls a white person a cracker racist?

Is a person who uses a homophobic term automatically a homophobe?

How about when you're in a jock setting and all those terms are being thrown around by half the locker room?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Did the coaching staff order the Code Red?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...oaches-wanted-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin/

 

[longislandcuse]

Did the coaching staff order the Code Red?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...oaches-wanted-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin/

Bombshell if true.. Wow.

 

[cusefan88]

For a lot of people the reaction is to settle with fists and show him physically that it won't be tolerated. I'm guessing from Martin's upbringing he was taught to use words and walk away. Incognito is a loose cannon. And in an age of guns in a locker room (Wizards-Crittenton/Arenas) and an alleged murderer (Hernandez) I applaud Martin's decision and think he was right.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Be that as it may - do you think Incognito has demonstrated racism?

I would rather know how he treats alll of his black teammates. I also don't like to label people.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[AZOrange]

What the heck is your criteria for racist? If I left a (angry threatening) message on someones voicemail using the N word and was caught on tape using the N word while on a drunken tirade in a bar ... well quacks like a duck seems to me.

I assume LIC's honing in on the word "half" for incognito. I guess it only makes him half racist.

 

[AZOrange]

I played lacrosse in college and the tried to force me to run naked outside. Not sure how that would have helped the tam but I chose to say no. I think they respected my decision. To say no more than if I had done it.

Hell I ran naked outside every week in college. It wasn't called hazing. It was called " gettin home"

 

[CuseTroop]

Hell I ran naked outside every week in college. It wasn't called hazing. It was called " gettin home"

My man

 

[AZOrange]

My man

College.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Did the coaching staff order the Code Red?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...oaches-wanted-incognito-to-toughen-up-martin/

You can't handle the truth! You want me on that line! You NEED me on that line!

Ehh, not so much Ritchie. The management may have some tough decisions to make here shortly.

 

[longislandcuse]

I assume LIC's honing in on the word "half" for incognito. I guess it only makes him half racist.

That's not it at all. I'm pretty sure you know what my point is but want to sound self righteous by looking at everything in absolutes. You think Richie Incognito is a racist because he's used to N-word, and he may be, but I'm not going to label him a white power racist when I know nothing else about him. Is he friends with any black people? How does he act around the other black people on his team? Same with Riley Cooper who was close friends with an African-American in Jeremy Maclin.

Once again, I'll ask since noone else wants to answer, is a black person who refers to a white person as a cracker or whiteboy racist?

Is someone using homophobic slurs in that setting automatically a homophobe? Is Kobe Bryant a raging homophobe for what he called a referee a few years back or can we maybe give him the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't run around gay bashing and may have just had a bad choice of words?

I've been around people in a competitive sport situation who have used all the above and that's what I imagine an NFL locker room may be like and I'm not going to be a reactionary PC cop and declare anyone who says anything racial or homophobic is automatically a racist or homophobe. Now if Richie Incognito is using that word all the time and making racial remarks all the time then it falls into the "if it walks like a duck..." category and I'd agree that he's racist along with being a total .

 

[Tobias Funke]

That's not it at all. I'm pretty sure you know what my point is but want to sound self righteous by looking at everything in absolutes. You think Richie Incognito is a racist because he's used to N-word, and he may be, but I'm not going to label him a white power racist when I know nothing else about him. Is he friends with any black people? How does he act around the other black people on his team? Same with Riley Cooper who was close friends with an African-American in Jeremy Maclin.

Once again, I'll ask since noone else wants to answer, is a black person who refers to a white person as a cracker or whiteboy racist?

Is someone using homophobic slurs in that setting automatically a homophobe? Is Kobe Bryant a raging homophobe for what he called a referee a few years back or can we maybe give him the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't run around gay bashing and may have just had a bad choice of words?

I've been around people in a competitive sport situation who have used all the above and that's what I imagine an NFL locker room may be like and I'm not going to be a reactionary PC cop and declare anyone who says anything racial or homophobic is automatically a racist or homophobe. Now if Richie Incognito is using that word all the time and making racial remarks all the time then it falls into the "if it walks like a duck..." category and I'd agree that he's racist along with being a total .

Unfortunately you are trying to compare words that fall under the same category of being demeaning , but carry much heavier weight. To argue that the N word is on the same level as cracker is a tough one. Not that it is right but the word has the ability to level someone. I have heard it used before as many have here and it makes my stomach turn. If a black guy is calling people crackers I would argue that they are racist, but we all know the word carries much less weight based on the history between the races.

The whole he has black friends argument does not mean is isn't racist, but that he was in a situation to get to know these people and saw beyond their skin color. Either way he still harbors some sort of hatred or fear to continue to use such a hurtful and offensive word.

As for people using the word fag. I would say this. Unfortunately that word took on a different connotation in the 90,s where it was unabashedly used by men to poke fun at each other. This desensitized some to it, and it flies out of their mouths like nothing. I would say this about Kobe, he isn't necessarily a homophobe for saying it then, but if he still says it now he is an intolerant jerk, who very well may be.



Point being all of these worlds have different origins, but you may notice there is one word none of us have actually written out, instead referred to as the N word. It carries too heavy of a weight for a white person to bandy about without that person carrying some form of hatred.

 

[longislandcuse]

Unfortunately you are trying to compare words that fall under the same category of being demeaning , but carry much heavier weight. To argue that the N word is on the same level as cracker is a tough one. Not that it is right but the word has the ability to level someone. I have heard it used before as many have here and it makes my stomach turn. If a black guy is calling people crackers I would argue that they are racist, but we all know the word carries much less weight based on the history between the races.

The whole he has black friends argument does not mean is isn't racist, but that he was in a situation to get to know these people and saw beyond their skin color. Either way he still harbors some sort of hatred or fear to continue to use such a hurtful and offensive word.

As for people using the word fag. I would say this. Unfortunately that word took on a different connotation in the 90,s where it was unabashedly used by men to poke fun at each other. This desensitized some to it, and it flies out of their mouths like nothing. I would say this about Kobe, he isn't necessarily a homophobe for saying it then, but if he still says it now he is an intolerant jerk, who very well may be.



Point being all of these worlds have different origins, but you may notice there is one word none of us have actually written out, instead referred to as the N word. It carries too heavy of a weight for a white person to bandy about without that person carrying some form of hatred.

I agree with everything you said. I just can't label someone a racist for a mistake. Now with everything coming out about Incognito and "a pattern" of racial intolerance emerging, I would consider him to be a racist. If it was an isolated incident where he's in a locker room where anything goes, then it's not acceptable but I don't think you're a racist. When you're doing it all the time and say the word with as much force he's said it with then yea, Incognito is now in my mind not only a , but also a racist.

 

[longislandcuse]

Question for you guys:

This Incognito incident seems far more racially hostile given the Martin incident, videos coming out and texts etc. than the isolated Riley Cooper incident yet you have players feeling bad for Incognito. Garçon, Rolle amongst others have almost defended his actions by their passive remarks yet Riley Cooper was almost run out of the league?

This is why I lean towards "the locker room" element given Incognitos garbage happened to a teammate within the guise of the locker room/team while Riley Coopers was at a random concert to a random guy caught on camera.

Thoughts?

 

[Tobias Funke]

Question for you guys:

This Incognito incident seems far more racially hostile given the Martin incident, videos coming out and texts etc. than the isolated Riley Cooper incident yet you have players feeling bad for Incognito. Garçon, Rolle amongst others have almost defended his actions by their passive remarks yet Riley Cooper was almost run out of the league?

This is why I lean towards "the locker room" element given Incognitos garbage happened to a teammate within the guise of the locker room/team while Riley Coopers was at a random concert to a random guy caught on camera.

Thoughts?

I think Riley Cooper almost being run out of the league is a bit of an exageration. But this article may shed some light on your thoughts. It appears some care less about what Incognito did or said and more about the fact that Martin didnt "handle it like a man". http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--c...attitudes-about-manhood-in-nfl-230453028.html

I have two young kids and my view on things like this has turned drastically from when i was younger. The NFL and its players do need to consider the impact that their actions and statements will have in the wake of this. Poeple (kids) are watching and listening to everything these days. Martin did what most of us would teach our kids to do in a similar situation.

 

[AZOrange]

That's not it at all. I'm pretty sure you know what my point is but want to sound self righteous by looking at everything in absolutes. You think Richie Incognito is a racist because he's used to N-word, and he may be, but I'm not going to label him a white power racist when I know nothing else about him. Is he friends with any black people? How does he act around the other black people on his team? Same with Riley Cooper who was close friends with an African-American in Jeremy Maclin.

Once again, I'll ask since noone else wants to answer, is a black person who refers to a white person as a cracker or whiteboy racist?

Is someone using homophobic slurs in that setting automatically a homophobe? Is Kobe Bryant a raging homophobe for what he called a referee a few years back or can we maybe give him the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't run around gay bashing and may have just had a bad choice of words?

I've been around people in a competitive sport situation who have used all the above and that's what I imagine an NFL locker room may be like and I'm not going to be a reactionary PC cop and declare anyone who says anything racial or homophobic is automatically a racist or homophobe. Now if Richie Incognito is using that word all the time and making racial remarks all the time then it falls into the "if it walks like a duck..." category and I'd agree that he's racist along with being a total .

Self righteous? Good lord, it was a joke based on what incognito said...

But to answer your question, if you allow bigoted comments to leave your mouth I think you're a bigot. Do I think there are diff levels of bigotry? Yes. Do I think incognito is a racist? Yes. Do I think he wants to start lynching? Prob not.

 

[NKR1978]

Question for you guys:

This Incognito incident seems far more racially hostile given the Martin incident, videos coming out and texts etc. than the isolated Riley Cooper incident yet you have players feeling bad for Incognito. Garçon, Rolle amongst others have almost defended his actions by their passive remarks yet Riley Cooper was almost run out of the league?

This is why I lean towards "the locker room" element given Incognitos garbage happened to a teammate within the guise of the locker room/team while Riley Coopers was at a random concert to a random guy caught on camera.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Cooper was almost run out of the league. He missed a couple days of preseason and came back and no one has really talked about him since this summer.

Incognito is actually suspended with reports that he will never play for the Dolphins again. It seems unlikely that any team will pick him up this year if they can and you have to wonder what his future prospects are. It seems Incognito is getting it far worse than Cooper did.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Millhouse]

Smart Football ‏@smartfootball 12h
RT @mikefreemanNFL: One thing I continue to hear from players and coaches, and it saddens me: academically smart players are considered soft

football is ruined by meatheads

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I know people bust on Millhouse sometimes for how he talks about all of the meatheads in football, but I think this whole situation supports that idea.

I mean, think about it - supposedly Incognito was a well liked player, on the team leadership council, tasked to "toughen up" Martin.

So, in meathead fashion, his strategy for making Martin tougher is to abuse, humiliate, harass and denigrate him, in such a manner that Incognito himself benefits, because... why exactly? What reaction are those things supposed to produce? Martin gets fed up and takes it to Incognito, and in the process realizes "You know what? I'M A BIG STRONG MAN! GRR!" Because, yeah, that's how this stuff works. That's how you change someone's mentality and behavior.

Time to take out my broad brush and paint - this is what can happen when you let big, dumb animals find solutions to big, dumb animal problems. Meatheads gonna meathead. Where is hazing popular? Locker rooms and frats. Where do you find high concentrations of meatheads, and even find that meatheadedness is encouraged? Locker rooms and frats.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Smart Football ‏@smartfootball 12h
RT @mikefreemanNFL: One thing I continue to hear from players and coaches, and it saddens me: academically smart players are considered soft

football is ruined by meatheads

I swear I just posted my rant before seeing this from you.

Also, wasn't there a guy from Florida State that delayed going to the NFL to go to Oxford for a bit or something, and that really bothered the NFL types and was considered a red flag, because the player demonstrated with his intelligence he didn't necessarily need the NFL to be successful in life and in the eyes of the league that made him a less appealing prospect.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Smart Football ‏@smartfootball 12h
RT @mikefreemanNFL: One thing I continue to hear from players and coaches, and it saddens me: academically smart players are considered soft

football is ruined by meatheads

i consider them soft too.

theyve got an out, an aftergame to look forward too, meatheads dont.


anyway, for those of us calling this a code red from the start, looks like we are about to be vindicated.

the miami staff is going to need ARods lawyers to somehow give them a stay of execution here.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I swear I just posted my rant before seeing this from you.

Also, wasn't there a guy from Florida State that delayed going to the NFL to go to Oxford for a bit or something, and that really bothered the NFL types and was considered a red flag, because the player demonstrated with his intelligence he didn't necessarily need the NFL to be successful in life and in the eyes of the league that made him a less appealing prospect.

myron rolle. jersey guy too.

opposite ends of the spectrum here....

 

[rosconey]

you draft a soft player its on management - no toughen him up crapp -

plenty of smart guys with a nasty attitude once the play starts

 

[OttoinGrotto]

the miami staff is going to need ARods lawyers to somehow give them a stay of execution here.

Seems like this could get in to some really interesting employment law kind of stuff. The NFL operates in kind of an unusual fashion and is granted all kinds of exceptions not afforded to other businesses (tax breaks, able to blackout games, etc.) but I don't think where those lines are drawn would permit a hostile work place and harassment. My company just had a big training with a law firm for all of its managers about how management represents the company and how the company is legally responsible for our actions, so we needed everything to be clear as to what would be out of bounds in regards to treating employees and stuff.