Rickie Collins

[kcsu]

Probably correct. But the question is can Carney develop more on the bench, rather than being tossed behind this average offensive line.

I'd like to see Jakhari first, otherwise he's gone as soon as the portal opens in the winter.

He's already gone.

 

[Cusefan0307]

So I haven’t followed back up qb’s much….mostly because there is little reliable news out there on them…but why does everyone go straight to the undersized freshman vs the 4 star qb whose been in the system already for over a year?

He’s ahead of Williams on the depth chart or he wouldn’t have been the one to come in vs Colgate.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

My skepticism of dual threat QBs just increased which I didn't think was possible

Single threat qbs are the way

I think Collins is a zero threat QB. He may be able to run a good 40 time and throw a nice ball but he is zero threat running the football. His lack of awareness on the field is alarming and he looks really easy to tackle because of it

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If Carney is 6 foot tall, I would be shocked. Looks tiny out there, not saying he can't be really good college QB but he is small in stature and probably the reason he wasn't recruited by most of the bigger schools. Would rather he play over Collins though. Have to remember that Collins was going to be 3rd string at LSU again this year for a reason

 

[OrangeXtreme]

So I haven’t followed back up qb’s much….mostly because there is little reliable news out there on them…but why does everyone go straight to the undersized freshman vs the 4 star qb whose been in the system already for over a year?

Rumor is that he was banged up in training camp.

 

[Millhouse]

I think Collins is a zero threat QB. He may be able to run a good 40 time and throw a nice ball but he is zero threat running the football. His lack of awareness on the field is alarming and he looks really easy to tackle because of it

That's how I feel about most dual threat QBs

It's a nice way of saying he can't throw

Cecil Howard was the all-time example at any school

The worse they throw, the more over rated their running ability is

 

[sufandu]

That's how I feel about most dual threat QBs

It's a nice way of saying he can't throw

Cecil Howard was the all-time example at any school

The worse they throw, the more over rated their running ability is

It's been pointed out, Collins was never considered a dual threat QB. He was considered a pocket passer out of high school. He's just a pocket passer that's not that good at passing.

 

[capeorange]

"His tendency was really just look at one receiver and just throw the ball,” Weaver said. “And so you read on the quarterback, and you look where he going. Really just break on the ball then.”

Everyone could see that and I'm sure the coaches pointed it out to him but he never corrected it. Some habits can't or won't be changed.

https://archive.ph/ysxoP

Rickie Collins shows a troubling tendency in first start: ‘He can’t get worse, right?’

Syracuse's offense had three turnovers and a host of other mishaps en route to Saturday's 38-3 loss to Duke.

www.syracuse.com

 

[bothsocksup]

He looked pretty good on one of the early drives in the pocket - 4 or 5 nice throws - until he locked on to his first read and the safety made of the easiest INTs I’ve seen awhile. Maybe that can be coached

That’s exactly right. Re watching. He was actually sharp. His int was tipped

 

[RF2044]

I think Collins is a zero threat QB. He may be able to run a good 40 time and throw a nice ball but he is zero threat running the football. His lack of awareness on the field is alarming and he looks really easy to tackle because of it

I keep saying this over and over [and did when we brought in Rickie Collins, and posters were complaining that they wanted Jakhari to get a shot... and again made the argument when we brought in Steve Angeli, and posters were complaining that they were afraid that the move might result in Jakhari or Rickie transferring out] that the vast majority of QB recruits -- even highly rated ones -- fail to live up to the billing. That's why you have to bring in as many quality prospects as you can, and let things sort out on the practice field.

That is true even at factory programs that recruit blue chip QB prospect. Most don't pan out.

Many of them are projection rated -- because they have good physical attributes / measureables. But what can't be measured is innate feel, playmaking apptitude, and work ethic.

I think Rickie is most likely a guy who was a highly rated 4-star recruit because he has impressive physical tools. And the recruiting experts see that, and project what he might become in a few years. But based upon what we saw Saturday, he lacks a feel for the game, and lacks many of the refinements needed to excel at the position [such as using his eyes to look off defenders, being able to rapidly go through progressions, etc.].

Could some of this just be inexperience? Sure. Maybe he'll come out in start #2 and be more effective. But I'm guessing that he just isn't that good of a QB -- like the majority of QB prospects that get recruited every year. He's got the physical capabilities, but not the playmaking apptitude.

 

[tep624]

So I haven’t followed back up qb’s much….mostly because there is little reliable news out there on them…but why does everyone go straight to the undersized freshman vs the 4 star qb whose been in the system already for over a year?

Him being recruited over 2 times and arguably a 3rd while being the longest in the program doesn’t make me bullish. He throws a nice ball in warmups but yeah…

 

[Millhouse]

It's been pointed out, Collins was never considered a dual threat QB. He was considered a pocket passer out of high school. He's just a pocket passer that's not that good at passing.

Just Google it, that's not true

 

[JeremyCuse]

Him being recruited over 2 times and arguably a 3rd while being the longest in the program doesn’t make me bullish. He throws a nice ball in warmups but yeah…

Your assumption is correct, he's unlikely to ever see the field here.

 

[FrancoPizza]

At the very least when we fall down three scores in the 2nd half vs SMU let him finish the game. The other team will be more conservative on D so he won’t be “ruined” or overwhelmed.

Same for Pitt who can easily overwhelm a QB. Same for GA Tech since it is a road game against a ranked team.

Then start him as a surprise vs UNC so we can actually get a win.

This is the recipe. Ease him in. Then hopefully he can be "good enough" to make this season salvageable.

 

[RedtheGOB]

We’re not winning with Rickie. I’d rather lose with Carney getting game reps for his QB2 role next year.

I'm giving him until half time of the Pitt game. At the dome after a bye week if we go out and are dropping an egg and the dome crowd is walking out the door at the half then it's time.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I'm giving him until half time of the Pitt game. At the dome after a bye week if we go out and are dropping an egg and the dome crowd is walking out the door at the half then it's time.

Hopefully the coaches are already mentally prepping Carney behind the scenes.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I keep saying this over and over [and did when we brought in Rickie Collins, and posters were complaining that they wanted Jakhari to get a shot... and when we brought in Steve Angeli, and posters were complaining that they were afraid that the move might result in Jakhari or Rickie transferring out] that the vast majority of QB recruits -- even highly rated ones -- fail to live up to the billing. That's why you have to bring in as many quality prospects as you can, and let things sort out on the practice field.

That is true even at factory programs that recruit blue chip QB prospect. Most don't pan out.

Many of them are projection rated -- because they have good physical attributes / measureables. But what can't be measured is innate feel, playmaking apptitude, and work ethic.

I think Rickie is most likely a guy who was a highly rated 4-star recruit because he has impressive physical tools. And the recruiting experts see that, and project what he might become in a few years. But based upon what we saw Saturday, he lacks a feel for the game, and lacks many of the refinements needed to excel at the position [such as using his eyes to look off defenders, being able to rapidly go through progressions, etc.].

Could some of this just be inexperience? Sure. Maybe he'll come out in start #2 and be more effective. But I'm guessing that he just isn't that good of a QB -- like the majority of QB prospects that get recruited every year. He's got the physical capabilities, but not the playmaking apptitude.

It does happen quite often and if Collins can't get to at least being slightly below average, they have to probably move on in another game or 2. I don't really think Angeli will be back until summer camp and it would be nice if we know who the real #2 is by the end of the year.

 

[tep624]

I'm giving him until half time of the Pitt game. At the dome after a bye week if we go out and are dropping an egg and the dome crowd is walking out the door at the half then it's time.

The problem is that we don’t have a shut down defense. If you’re not able to counter punch, then you’re constantly playing from behind which just makes things worse for a QB with challenges.

If we had a shut down defense then you could white knuckle to wins with Rickie but we need to come up with someone who can lead the offense to put points on the board.

If we have any hope of making a bowl this year I don’t think we can afford to dig a hole against Pitt. If we’re coming out of SMU 3-3 then Pitt is a must win.

 

[PhatOrange]

Your assumption is correct, he's unlikely to ever see the field here.

What's the knock on him?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It does happen quite often and if Collins can't get to at least being slightly below average, they have to probably move on in another game or 2. I don't really think Angeli will be back until summer camp and it would be nice if we know who the real #2 is by the end of the year.

With decent QB play we really should beat Pitt, UNC, BC. I don't think Collins will improve enough to be decent this year, if ever. And I doubt he stays to be QB2 for next year. So I don't see the upside in playing him past SMU, assuming we see more of the same.

With 2 weeks to prep for Pitt it is a great chance to get Carney or Williams up to speed. And it keeps the possibility of winning in play. I think if you play Collins vs Pitt, you can throw away any outside chance at a Bowl (again assuming SMU is the same Collins we have seen thus far). Also by moving on from Collins you can get your QB2 the next two seasons up to speed.

If Carney and Williams aren't any good, then what the heck was Fran thinking originally going into this season with a QB room of Collins, Carney, Williams?

That said I don't think Fran will make a change before UNC, and maybe not even then. There is a real possibility he can go from 13-4 to 13-12.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

With decent QB play we really should beat Pitt, UNC, BC. I don't think Collins will improve enough to be decent this year, if ever. And I doubt he stays to be QB2 for next year. So I don't see the upside in playing him past SMU, assuming we see more of the same.

With 2 weeks to prep for Pitt it is a great chance to get Carney or Williams up to speed. And it keeps the possibility of winning in play. I think if you play Collins vs Pitt, you can throw away any outside chance at a Bowl (again assuming SMU is the same Collins we have seen thus far). Also by moving on from Collins you can get your QB2 the next two seasons up to speed.

If Carney and Williams aren't any good, then what the heck was Fran thinking originally going into this season with a QB room of Collins, Carney, Williams?

That said I don't think Fran will make a change before UNC, and maybe not even then. There is a real possibility he can go from 13-4 to 13-12.

Qb recruiting is a real gamble, obviously they knew they had a problem after spring ball. I think it's safe to say Williams and most likely Collins ain't it. Carney way too early to tell, maybe he will get some snaps if Collins continues to struggle. Carney had been here since the spring.

People will raise a stink that Williams has never played etc but clearly the staff has had no issue recruiting over him a couple times. Just the way it goes some times. Writing is on the wall there but maybe they give him and Carney both some run

 

[RedtheGOB]

The problem is that we don’t have a shut down defense. If you’re not able to counter punch, then you’re constantly playing from behind which just makes things worse for a QB with challenges.

If we had a shut down defense then you could white knuckle to wins with Rickie but we need to come up with someone who can lead the offense to put points on the board.

If we have any hope of making a bowl this year I don’t think we can afford to dig a hole against Pitt. If we’re coming out of SMU 3-3 then Pitt is a must win.

The defense does not need to be shutdown in my opinion, really it never has been yet we've stacked alot of wins. From day 1 of the Fran Brown era the defense has been reliant on the offense to spark them or wake them up. They're fine usually playing from behind or with a lead but not if the offense is bad.

They are brutally terrible when the offense sputters, turns the ball over or has messy possessions. When the offense is even reasonable the defense comes up with stops and makes plays.

Guess we're both saying the defense is a mess but I'm trying to say the defense will step up and make plays if the offense at least is not so terrible.

 

[JeremyCuse]

What's the knock on him?

From what I have heard he just hasn't progressed to the point he could play at this level. Has not looked good in practice and I am not surprised Carney is ahead of him.

 

[OHIORANGES]

Don’t forget Eileen Collins.

I’ve met Bootsy. Obviously a very cool dude

 

[kingtidge]

Qb recruiting is a real gamble, obviously they knew they had a problem after spring ball. I think it's safe to say Williams and most likely Collins ain't it. Carney way too early to tell, maybe he will get some snaps if Collins continues to struggle. Carney had been here since the spring.

People will raise a stink that Williams has never played etc but clearly the staff has had no issue recruiting over him a couple times. Just the way it goes some times. Writing is on the wall there but maybe they give him and Carney both some run

Yeah, not sure if they realized they had a problem or not, as I'm not sure Fran would officially announce Collins as the # 1 in the Spring if he wasn't happy with his skill development and his plan was to immediately recruit over him in the Spring portal if possible??... Or maybe he just figured he's here and the best we got at the moment, so we'll announce it after Spring ball??

Obviously HCFB did what HCFB does and went after Angeli when he went into the portal, as you always upgrade where an if you can at skill positions (and especially QB) - if you can do it with the portal and have the NIL to do so nowadays...