Class of 2018 SF Cole Swider (RI) Transferring from Villanova to Syracuse

[Toga]

Why did we not offer at the Elite camp? Which 2018 recruits did we offer then?

If he goes to the Xavier it means we need to stretch our nets and keep in contact with more kids earlier. Instead we have the feeling we can come in later because we are Syracuse. That needs to go away. We should be offering kids early and offering lots of elite talent saying we want you and will recruit you hard but we aren't going to just offer a few kids.

This kid is exactly what we need a wing shooter who is a multi year player in college basketball. As Cusefan0307 said since he is a skilled wing shooter of course we aren't getting him.

The narrative can't change from we lost to Duke and Kentucky to we lost because the other team was on him longer. This big boy business GMac needs to win these bigger recruits. When he does he will get praise till he does it's frustrating.

Hopefully that will occur. I think we are just starting to climb out of a recruiting year of dysfunction and laziness.

 

[AZOrange]

That's fine, but at some point we need to sign guys who can consistently knock down shots. We didn't in 2017 and Swider is the only guy that fits that mold in 18. We've seen what happens when you construct teams that do most of their damage in the paint. (See 2013-2015).

As opposed to last year? I'll take 2013-2015 over that

 

[orangecuse]

I agree with this completely and its why I am a bit fearful. Losing at the last moment to K is one thing. Losing to Xavier after we have built a solid relationship with the recruit, albeit for a shorter period of time, is scary. Puts us on a much lower level than the teams we are directly trying to compete with. Xavier doesn't have to play an ACC schedule, we do. We need to win against them and get better players than they do.

Indeed. And the point is even further weighted when considering just what our place as been in the ACC the past three years. Basically, a mediocre .500 team that has yet to win an ACC tournament game. Yes, we had that miraculous FF run in '16, and, it was incredible, but that six game stretch was really an outlier in relation to our past 3 seasons of being nothing but ordinary. Recruits know this, and likely just don't see us in the same light as us fans. I'm not saying we're those 2 a.m. beer goggle chicks, but recently we are far from that babe that walks in.

 

[iommi]

Without quoting any specific posts, I'll just say I agree with Cusefan0307 and, his posts above. I'm not sure why we are not targeting more guys like Swider who can shoot AND are athletic. I love Bazley but he's not a proven shooter. The other thing I like about Swider is he's not rail-thin, like most of the guys we target. Don't get wrong, I'd love to add a beast like Bazley but in terms of need, Swider check the boxes. He'd have really given us what Tucker would've provided, plus even more size. Maybe he still will but given what's happened lately, not counting on feeling great tomorrow.

 

[Ward]

That's fine, but at some point we need to sign guys who can consistently knock down shots. We didn't in 2017 and Swider is the only guy that fits that mold in 18. We've seen what happens when you construct teams that do most of their damage in the paint. (See 2013-2015).

Agree completely. Teams that have very few ways to score are incredibly easy to defend. 2018-19 roster as of now looks like it needs floor spacers and of our 2018 targets Swider looks like the only one teams will have to consistently account for behind the 3 point line.

 

[Cusefan0307]

As opposed to last year? I'll take 2013-2015 over that

You'd take Raks senior year over last year? I wouldn't. That was the worst offensive team in Syracuse history.

 

[iommi]

Agree completely. Teams that have very few ways to score are incredibly easy to defend. 2018-19 roster as of now looks like it needs floor spacers and of our 2018 targets Swider looks like the only one teams will have to consistently account for behind the 3 point line.

That's one reason why Buddy is actually very important.

 

[AZOrange]

You'd take Raks senior year over last year? I wouldn't. That was the worst offensive team in Syracuse history.

Well you have the Final Four year in there too. I'd rather make the tourney and FFs than watch that dumpster fire from last year

 

[AZOrange]

That's one reason why Buddy is actually very important.

Yeah and not sure it doesn't factor in here

 

[AZOrange]

Agree completely. Teams that have very few ways to score are incredibly easy to defend. 2018-19 roster as of now looks like it needs floor spacers and of our 2018 targets Swider looks like the only one teams will have to consistently account for behind the 3 point line.

Right. The issue is ways to score. We've lived at both extremes for awhile.

 

[SacKingCuse]

Does the Bazely unofficial have anything to do with Swider's decision? Or are they completely unrelated?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well you have the Final Four year in there too. I'd rather make the tourney and FFs than watch that dumpster fire from last year

I wasn't talking about the MCW/Triche year, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[iommi]

Yeah and not sure it doesn't factor in here

Not from our side. From Swider's side, I doubt it's a big factor. Buddy is closer to a 2 than a 3 size-wise. Cole is a 3/4 and is a pretty big kid.

I think if we don't get him, playing time could be pointed to as a factor but much more important is the relationship with the Xavier staff over a long period of time. I thought it was down to Duke-Syracuse but he had been mentioning Xavier a lot in interviews throughout the process. They shouldn't have been underestimated.

Damn, the reports were so good on his visit here. I was pretty confident against Duke. This would be another one that stings, even this early on.

 

[Ward]

That's one reason why Buddy is actually very important.

How good is Buddy though? It sounds like he's a great shooter but how good of a basketball player is he? I haven't seen him play so am legitimately asking. Would we discuss him half as much as we do if his last name was Smith? I've seen he has an offer from UMass but don't see him ranked anywhere on any of the sites. Maybe I'm wrong so someone can post a link. I wouldn't be excited or feel great if we were recruiting Buddy Smith who has our "hypothetical offer" and only one other D1 offer from a middle of the road A-10 team as a kid who "is actually very important".

Again, not a knock at Buddy at all because I haven't seen him play so I can't give an opinion. I'm just trying to look at it objectively and separate the actual ability of the player from the emotional draw of being excited by the unique situation. Because ultimately we need a team of players who can produce and win games and we aren't going to get any extra points on the scoreboard just because it's fun that our head coach's son is playing for us.

 

[iommi]

Does the Bazely unofficial have anything to do with Swider's decision? Or are they completely unrelated?

Good question but I don't think we set up the Bazley visit because we knew we were striking out with Swider (if we are striking out).

 

[iommi]

How good is Buddy though? It sounds like he's a great shooter but how good of a basketball player is he? I haven't seen him play so am legitimately asking. Would we discuss him half as much as we do if his last name was Smith? I've seen he has an offer from UMass but don't see him ranked anywhere on any of the sites. Maybe I'm wrong so someone can post a link. I wouldn't be excited or feel great if we were recruiting Buddy Smith who has our "hypothetical offer" and only one other D1 offer from a middle of the road A-10 team as a kid who "is actually very important".

Again, not a knock at Buddy at all because I haven't seen him play so I can't give an opinion. I'm just trying to look at it objectively and separate the actual ability of the player from the emotional draw of being excited by the unique situation. Because ultimately we need a team of players who can produce and win games and we aren't going to get any extra points on the scoreboard just because it's fun that our head coach's son is playing for us.

Let's not shift this thread to Buddy but he's a great shooter, who is getting better in all aspects. Only reason he's not garnering more offers is schools are assuming we will land him.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I will say small forward power forward isn't our most critical need anyways. That said Swider is a great player... but Bazley is a level beyond. If I could pick only one, it would be Bazley.

Bazley looks like an insane athlete. But we have suffered for lack of shooters in several recent seasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

FWIW, while Swider has another year and can move further up, Moyer was rated just as high.

And we have expanded recruiting and have a lot of offers out to '18 kids.

Wildly different skill sets, don't you think? One is not a substitute for the other.

 

[Ward]

Let's not shift this thread to Buddy but he's a great shooter, who is getting better in all aspects. Only reason he's not garnering more offers is schools are assuming we will land him.

Agreed, Buddy has his own thread was just responding to your post in this thread about him.

That theory doesn't explain why he isn't ranked anywhere. You can be a great shooter and improving player and not be an ACC caliber recruit. And I don't really buy that schools won't offer him because they assume we'll land him. Recruit him heavily, yes. Offer, no it takes 0 effort.

 

[IthacaMatt]

How good is Buddy though? It sounds like he's a great shooter but how good of a basketball player is he? I haven't seen him play so am legitimately asking. Would we discuss him half as much as we do if his last name was Smith? I've seen he has an offer from UMass but don't see him ranked anywhere on any of the sites. Maybe I'm wrong so someone can post a link. I wouldn't be excited or feel great if we were recruiting Buddy Smith who has our "hypothetical offer" and only one other D1 offer from a middle of the road A-10 team as a kid who "is actually very important".

Again, not a knock at Buddy at all because I haven't seen him play so I can't give an opinion. I'm just trying to look at it objectively and separate the actual ability of the player from the emotional draw of being excited by the unique situation. Because ultimately we need a team of players who can produce and win games and we aren't going to get any extra points on the scoreboard just because it's fun that our head coach's son is playing for us.

I haven't seen Buddy in person, but in the film I've seen he looks like the typical Notre Dame kid. He doesn't have the passing skills or the quick release of an Andy Rautins, who many see as his comparable for us. Buddy's a terrific shooter, but he takes a while to let it go.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed, Buddy has his own thread was just responding to your post in this thread about him.

That theory doesn't explain why he isn't ranked anywhere. You can be a great shooter and improving player and not be an ACC caliber recruit. And I don't really buy that schools won't offer him because they assume we'll land him. Recruit him heavily, yes. Offer, no it takes 0 effort.

I think it is safe to assume that Buddy probably wouldn't be on our radar if not for the family connection. That said, he's a great shooter with a versatile game. He'll probably be a solid reserve, maybe emerge as something more a la a zero star like Andy Rautins [different styles of play, only comparing their high school ratings].

Sorry for continuing this divergence -- back to Swider.

 

[Ward]

I haven't seen Buddy in person, but in the film I've seen he looks like the typical Notre Dame kid. He doesn't have the passing skills or the quick release of an Andy Rautins, who many see as his comparable for us. Buddy's a terrific shooter, but he takes a while to let it go.

Yea, if he's basically a walk on viewed as a lottery ticket who might be able to help us out in 3-4 years that's great. The growing sentiment that he's going to be an important contributor as a freshman and sophomore, or that we would even be in a position where we need him to be, doesn't give me comfort in us turning things around anytime soon.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Buddy ain't chopped liver. He put up better numbers in EYBL than some of our other former targets like Robby Carmody and Hameir Wright. Not sure why he isn't ranked higher, but he did shoot like 50% from 3.

 

[rrlbees]

Wildly different skill sets, don't you think? One is not a substitute for the other.

Completely different skill sets. But that wasn't the point of my post. Just pointing out their rankings in response to a comment.

 

[jgeorge322]

Bazley looks like an insane athlete. But we have suffered for lack of shooters in several recent seasons.

We had shooters last year (aw, lydon, thompson, battle) and sucked