So Babers is sold on Shrader?

[Sudano]

We won against a reputedly good team with a superior QB. We played with heart and discipline. I'm not sure why there is such negativity about the win. Dino coached better than Freeze and we needed him to. He stuck to his game plan with the OL and Tucker doing their job and Shrader having success in the red zone. I'm giddy with a win that Vegas and the prognosticators didn't expect. We got the breaks at the end and that is notable. I don't expect the game plan will be the same next week, but it worked last night with the defense the key to the win. 3-1 is a reasonable start to our season with room for hope that we'll have a postseason. Good game guys!!

It's Liberty!

 

[OrangeDW]

It's Liberty!

So IF we beat FSU, you’ll say “it’s FSU!! One of the best programs in the country!!”, right?

Sure you will.

 

[Red Holzman]

Florida State game will be fun to watch -should go a long way to clarify a lot of the debate here.
Does Schrader show that he can complete some nice passes to keep the D honest, or does he throw INT's and incompletions allowing FS to stuff a run-oriented offense?
If Schrader struggles does Tommy get the call while it's still a game, and does he save the day?
My crystal ball has no idea, and that makes the FS game so intriguing to watch.
After last season, just happy to have hope and some drama to look forward to!

 

[Shenexon]

It's Liberty!

The same Liberty that kicked us around last year, was favored by a touchdown this year, and that has one of the top QB's we'll face this year? That Liberty? I take no pleasure in playing Liberty but beating them was a good thing and largely unexpected. They were getting votes in the top 25 polls. Without the two big plays by the defense at the end, we could well be 2-2 instead of 3-1. I'm certainly going to cheer the win and the effort it took to accomplish it. Good game, guys! Kudos for a hard fought win!!

 

[zjscuse]

It's Liberty!

Lol bro that’s no fcs team they are legit, the ol church will continue dumping millions into there program and take any and all convicts till there in a power 5 conference

 

[Cusefan69]

This thread is interesting. I am not sure anyone is disputing TD is the better passer. No one is also disputing our oline in previous years has been bad. We have in essence two QBs that are polar opposites. In the aggregate the incumbent QB was not leading the team to wins. The coach is on the hot seat and needs wins. He went to the next guy who ugly or not managed and led the team to a win against a tough opponent. So I guess I am confused as to what is the concern? The fans didn't make the decision to start Shrader, Dino and I presume his OC did.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We’ve been through this. We all have PTSD and are unwilling to let Tommy be better than the Tommy we’ve all determined he is. I’ve struggled with this as well. We’re all doing the whole “we know he sucks, he’s proven it”. Whereas I think he’s incrementally Better this year. He’ll never be a stud.

if GS stays in I hope he’s amazing. Would love it. I’m just a knucklehead message board guy. I have no idea. Lol

Yes but you’re OUR knucklehead message board guy.

 

[Walshjfii]

Aww, you got triggered by that. I’m sorry.

again you have zero of value to add. keep moving kid

 

[NineOneSeven]

Tommy has 14 runs this year, for 7.6 YPC

Been much better this year at picking spots to run.

 

[Cuseregular]

Late to the thread - Schrader can absolutely throw the ball and has plus arm strength, however…

However, his mechanics during games are a C-/D+ at best. He actually reminds me a lot of Dungey throwing wise early in Dungey’s career.

He doesn’t set his feet very well in the pocket, and tends to throw off his back foot too often, or even flat footed. That being said, he made an NFL throw last week with an absolute bullet on a comeback route from the other hash.

There is definitely talent there, and I can see why he was heavily recruited. Schrader is anything from a finished product. Developmentally, he is really a redshirt freshman. I think this board forgets that at times. He played one year at Miss St, then was switched to WR under Mr Concussion Protocol.

I am looking for improvement out of Garrett throughout the course of the year. Improvement isn’t linear, and there will definitely be some bumps along the way.

I believe he gives us our best chance to win and obviously the staff does as well. He allows this offense to attack the defense is more ways than Tommy. The beard brings the ability for more read option concepts, horizontal RPO game, and you have to account for him running in the passing game (remember all those Dungey designed QB draws that went for 5-6 yards on 3rd downs)?

I expect the vertical passing game to develop more over the course of the season. We do have some issues with both QB play and WR play too. I am not a fan of excessive option routes at this level, and for some reason we run them all the time.

You see the pains with a new QB and young receivers not named Taj Harris out there - guys end up in the wrong spots all the time. That’s one reason why Sharrod Johnson plays more than he should - he knows where to go despite being our least talented receiver.

That’s what I said! Errr, tried to say! Great post bro.

BTW as I’m sure you know Hamilton looks at least to be competitive this year, 1-1.

 

[Walshjfii]

Touchdown Tommy got 3 starts, 2 against non P5 schools, 75%+ of the snaps and had 1 TD pass. In 3 games. Its time for a QB that can do other things besides pass.
You act.as.if.TD has thrown for 3 TD per game. If he had we would not even be talking about GS.

actually I dont, I just dont believe Tommy is the biggest issue that we have had. Blaming him is often misplaced. He has had no OLine. See OU's stud all american QB without and oline. Sterling is terrible at calling plays. See our Stud RB not touching the ball after scoring a TD against rutgers. Rediculous penalties taking away touchdowns and killing drives. and WR's that cant catch a ball. Id add TD as the next problem after that. QB play is a symptom of the real issues. They all need fixed before we really progress.

I hope GS goes out and throws 5 TD's next game and throws catchable passes beyond the line of scrimmage. Do anything, as a QB because he only has two memorable passes all season, both under 10 yards. So no, Im not ready to anoint him as the next Brady like so many Devito haters here. Do you really think GS can lead a comeback if we fall behind?

 

[qdawgg]

again you have zero of value to add. keep moving kid

Kid, lol. It’s possible you can’t keep up with my posts and that’s why you miss all the value?

 

[Walshjfii]

Kid, lol. It’s possible you can’t keep up with my posts and that’s why you miss all the value?

maybe you just have no value

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Looking at Shrader’s stats at MSU in 2019. He threw for 1200 yards total (58% completion rate) and ran for another 600. He appeared in 10 games and started 4 of them, subbing for QB1 Tommy Stevens, a Penn State transfer.

Stats for games started: vs Kentucky 180 yards passing and 125 rushing; vs Auburn 209 yards passing and 89 rushing; vs LSU 238 yards passing and 66 rushing; vs Texas A&M 238 yards passing (negligible rushing).

Shrader’s only other start was this past Friday and was the only time he has failed to pass for at least 180 yards. Of course, those SEC pass defenses are like swiss cheese compared to Liberty’s.

I am not suggesting that GS is exceptionally gifted as a passing QB, indeed his arm strength and accuracy is mediocre by FBS standards. But to say he can’t complete passes is not borne out by his experience as a true freshman at MSU. I would suggest that Gilbert’s play calling had as much or more to do with Friday’s lack of an air attack as Shrader’s shortcomings in the arm department.

 

[SWC75]

Again, the bottom line is that the defense won this game - not the offense, which ceased to work after Liberty realized we had no passing game. Either GS has to get a lot better, (as he realized, per the post game presser), or here comes TD.

 

[IthacaMatt]

actually I dont, I just dont believe Tommy is the biggest issue that we have had. Blaming him is often misplaced. He has had no OLine. See OU's stud all american QB without and oline. Sterling is terrible at calling plays. See our Stud RB not touching the ball after scoring a TD against rutgers. Rediculous penalties taking away touchdowns and killing drives. and WR's that cant catch a ball. Id add TD as the next problem after that. QB play is a symptom of the real issues. They all need fixed before we really progress.

I hope GS goes out and throws 5 TD's next game and throws catchable passes beyond the line of scrimmage. Do anything, as a QB because he only has two memorable passes all season, both under 10 yards. So no, Im not ready to anoint him as the next Brady like so many Devito haters here. Do you really think GS can lead a comeback if we fall behind?

Sounds like some sour grapes from you, Walsh.
Nobody said Shrader looks like Brady, and few "hate" DeVito here.

Honest assessment is that DeVito is poor in the pocket, and throws the occasional pretty pass, but mostly does not win games as the starter.

His career record as a starter is 7 wins and 12 losses - including the 2019 season, when we were coming off 10 wins and had a pretty talented roster.

Shrader had some terrible throws, but I felt like we were less predictable with him back there. I felt like if the other team wanted to blitz, it wasn't an automatic sack. I felt like if Shrader ran the ball, it wasn't a coin toss whether or not he'd get hurt by the tackle.

Shrader is not a guy who is going to help you come back from 20 points down, no. But is Tommy?

If a team KNOWS you have to throw, and we bring Tommy in as our "designated passer", isn't the other team just going to blitz the hell out of us, and we'll see the usual Tommy performances against pressure?

 

[RandomGuy]

Shrader was hitting some perfect 10-20 yard passes to Gadsden and Cooper (maybe others?) in the Albany game. He can hit those passes.
Longer than that seems to be a crapshoot.

He's going to need to. He scored a failing grade vs. Albany, and 20 points lower vs. Liberty. Good runner, though.

Good that he earned his 2cnd win as a starter.

 

[storange]

It’s really the intangibles with Shrader He/
seems to have that warrior mentality that Dungy had. ( nope , not saying he’s ED) . For three years we have watched TD mostly lose and of course as QB TD naturally took more then his fair share of the blame. I’m kind of in the let’s see what happens next mode. If Garrett bludgeons us to another ugly victory Saturday I would stay with him.

 

[SUDadx2]

I don't think Babers is sold on either QB. I expect Babers to go with whomever he thinks gives the team the best chance to win each week, thus I expect to see both QB's at various times as we move through the season.

None of us sees practices or attends the meeting each week, so none of us knows why Babers makes the decisions he does. And he's not going to tell us either. Nor should he.

 

[Walshjfii]

Sounds like some sour grapes from you, Walsh.
Nobody said Shrader looks like Brady, and few "hate" DeVito here.

Honest assessment is that DeVito is poor in the pocket, and throws the occasional pretty pass, but mostly does not win games as the starter.

His career record as a starter is 7 wins and 12 losses - including the 2019 season, when we were coming off 10 wins and had a pretty talented roster.

Shrader had some terrible throws, but I felt like we were less predictable with him back there. I felt like if the other team wanted to blitz, it wasn't an automatic sack. I felt like if Shrader ran the ball, it wasn't a coin toss whether or not he'd get hurt by the tackle.

Shrader is not a guy who is going to help you come back from 20 points down, no. But is Tommy?

If a team KNOWS you have to throw, and we bring Tommy in as our "designated passer", isn't the other team just going to blitz the hell out of us, and we'll see the usual Tommy performances against pressure?

No sour grapes. I do find it amusing that most the people that have replied to my post, and others, have tried to attack me instead of the topic at hand. That probably why I feel there are so many TD haters.

I want whoever gives us the best chance to win to play. Personally Id rather a guy that can throw the ball be the QB. Devito does have major flaws, but so does Shrader. We will have to see a few more full games from Shrader to see if he can really be the QB. Against Albany and Liberty he didnt show any ability to pass effectively.
Can Devito lead us back from 20 down? Probably not, we have way to many issues on offense for that, but I do believe he is the best chance for us to come back from being down when running is no longer an option.

We are 4 games in and so far all we know is Devito can run the RPO effectively and pass accurately, Shrader can improvise much better and is more rugged, but is unable to come close on a pass more than 10 yards down field.. Devito is flight. Shrader is Fight. Against a team that will allow us to run all over them Shrader is a fine QB, but if forced to pass Devito will be needed.

 

[Cusefan69]

A couple things. Others have stated that perhaps we continue to see alternating QBs and that could be the case and if so that's the staffs decision. I want the team to win and I really don't care who is quarterback as we do it.
Second there are lots of folks really pushing the TD stats and form and he mechanics wise I am told is excellent. Dino knows that, our OC knows that, our oline coach knows that, our receivers coach knows that and yet Shrader gets the start. So my comment is we all get TDs passing and form is great including the entire coaching staff as well. If the staff has decided Shrader will be starting again then what does that tell you? Perhaps the game is more than just throwing a good ball? That is where I am getting confused in this thread...the coaches know exactly how much better of a passer TD is and they still went with the other guy. No matter the data , advanced metrics, etc... which the staff knows about, they still went with Shrader.

 

[JKinPhilly]

Both QBs are very flawed and limited...and so is our offense.

 

[GoSU96]

That doesn’t take into effect sacks…so anytime he has run out of bounds for a loss it goes in as a sack

but I wasn’t debating Tommy’s ability to run, he can run but if we’re talking running GS easily wins in that category

And when did that happen this year?

 

[BillSU]

He was amazing, in fact brilliant at putting the ball in tuckers belly

And that aspect of our game this year is the most important. You don't get hand offs to Tucker you don't win games. We have the luxury of having a young RB who has got to be running a 4.4 and leads the nation in rushing. I think we have found our running back who is as fast or almost as fast as Jordan with a sturdy body which we didn't have with 5'9" 170lb. Hamilton, AZ grad, who if he got hit was going to limp off. He is a great back with great vision but our opinions of him may change or stay the same in that after our ACC schedule begins. If the O Line keeps opening areas for him to get through he will get through them and he's gone.

I was a QB All State private school in N.J. and played a year for SU. A lot of our running plays featured at times double fakes and then me going around end or throwing providing I had the blocking which most of the time I had. But I had to make sure the fakes to the belly were as real as I could make them and take them out without losing the ball. Shrader has that ability and it can really affect a defense especially with a back as good as Tucker.

I watched Shrader and he has very good control of the ball, is a good game manager, the team looks up to him and his passing isn't that bad. we keep on winning he stays put.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

So my comment is we all get TDs passing and form is great including the entire coaching staff as well.

The thing is, they may be seeing different metrics than we do. Yeah, we know that Tommy has a stronger arm and Shrader (thanks Chip for reminding me not to insert a "c") is stronger and the more powerful runner, but for the season their passing stats are surprisingly close.

Devito has 388 yards vs Shrader's 317. He is completing 61.5% of his passes vs. Shrader's very close 59.5%. Shrader averages 1 yard more per pass, and their longest passes are 73 and 72 yards respectively. Each has (sadly) only thrown for 1 TD, Devito has 2 ints vs 1 for Shrader. Tommy has taken 6 sacks vs only 1 for Shrader. In terms of QB rating, Shrader is 134.9 vs Devito's 122.9.

Overall, not much separation in an area where conventional wisdom says Devito would be significantly better. The flip side holds for rushing; they are likewise very close in a category where you would expect Shrader to be much better. The one thing that pops out is Shrader has more rushing TD's.

One final thing to add is that we have played two stronger teams and two tomato cans. Tommy achieved 50% of his passing stats against the tomato cans while Shrader achieved 57% of his against the harder competition. Probably a little statistically significant but not by much.

Statistically, there isn't much daylight between the two. At that point, it comes down to whatever else the coaches are looking at PLUS what they see every day in practice (that we aren't privy to).

Some fans have their favorite. I truly do not care who is behind center as long as we win. Otto? The statue of Ernie from the quad? The kid behind the cash register at The Varsity? A dead fish floating in Onondaga Lake? If any of the above can guide us to a win, it all works for me. Especially the fish, because it would be kind of unique in the ACC.