Super Bowl LVII Thread...

[HRE Otto IV]

I'm not sure he ever got a hold of anything. His hands are already free as the receiver is pulling away. It was more of a failed attempt to hold the receiver, who ran his route basically unimpeded.

There are clear screen shots showing the jersey in his hand and being pulled off of the WRs body.

 

[SWC75]

I just watched it again, the WR doesn't seem to break stride and the ball fwiw looked uncatchable (is that still a call?).

Anyway I don't know anything, I thought the ball was a catch on the fumble TD called back, apparently you have to run a lot now for it to be a catch...

The concept is that we don't know that the ball would have been uncatchable because the receiver was prevented from running to the ball by the hold. Look at the play again and ask yourself if Smith-Schuster was prevented from getting to that ball by Bradberry. Note that SS runs straight toward the end zone only to find that the ball is thrown to his left and well beyond his reach.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I just watched it again, the WR doesn't seem to break stride and the ball fwiw looked uncatchable (is that still a call?).

Anyway I don't know anything, I thought the ball was a catch on the fumble TD called back, apparently you have to run a lot now for it to be a catch...

I thought live that the fumble was an incomplete. But after watching the replay it was a catch IMO. I don't see how they overturned the call on the field. It was a huge call.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

There are clear screen shots showing the jersey in his hand and being pulled off of the WRs body.

The replays they showed don’t show the extent of the first hold well at all and I think that was the egregious one.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The concept is that we don't know that the ball would have been uncatchable because the receiver was prevented from running to the ball by the hold. Look at the play again and ask yourself if Smith-Schuster was prevented from getting to that ball by Bradberry. Note that SS runs straight toward the end zone only to find that the ball is thrown to his left and well beyond his reach.

Only matters on pass interference, as was mentioned three times before

 

[SWC75]

Only matters on pass interference, as was mentioned three times before

I understood that and quoted the intent in the first line of my post. The fact that intent was not met could have been considered.

 

[orange79]

In my eyes the issue is that, if such plays are not flagged earlier in the game, then DBs perhaps assume that such contact will be allowed. I believe it was Schuster Smith who was held in the middle of the field (on a pass thrown to him) on an earlier 3rd down play - no flag was thrown, and to me, that hold looked far worse than this one did.

Just be consistent. Shouldn't be that hard.


https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1625137219936694272?s=20&t=u3Zp2acPo9CxbITLmdDWzg

https://twitter.com/JakeLeei/status/1624971581599653889?s=20&t=u3Zp2acPo9CxbITLmdDWzg

Also, incredible that the KC OL did not hold the opposing DL a single time in the playoffs!

That's fair. I was just responding to the people that have said you can't make that call at that point in the game.

 

[jordville]

Consistency is key. In baseball an umpire establishes their strike zone, and both the pitchers and batters then know what it is and adjust for the game/umpire. If a game is called a certain way.. and then called differently in the last two minutes... that's a problem.

I don't think this has been mentioned here, but did anyone else notice that Juju didn't even react or look for a flag because he thought he was held and/or impeded? He did not. Earlier in the game, however, he put his hands up looking for a flag when he was out for a route over the middle... on a play I thought would get called. I just think that is another interesting perspective. No reaction from Juju on that game ending 3rd down call tells me he didn't feel it was flag worthy and/or he knew it was overthrown.

 

[djcon57]

The wild thing about the hold is if he doesnt hold and the play ends up going to the endzone, JuJu scores a TD, its a much better situation for the Eagles.

 

[BuffOrange]

The wild thing about the hold is if he doesnt hold and the play ends up going to the endzone, JuJu scores a TD, its a much better situation for the Eagles.

Ya I would've sent the house on every play once they got to midfield or so.

 

[upperdeck]

imagine if the NFL had the soccer VAR and it screwed up like it did multiple times in the Premier league this weekend.. The NFL just goes silent with its reviews so we have no idea what they base decisions on. VAR actually shows you most of the time when they screw it up.

 

[Melancer46]

imagine if the NFL had the soccer VAR and it screwed up like it did multiple times in the Premier league this weekend.. The NFL just goes silent with its reviews so we have no idea what they base decisions on. VAR actually shows you most of the time when they screw it up.

More and more I lean towards getting rid of reviews altogether if this (VAR, NBA challenges, NFL challenges, etc.) is how the reviews will be handled. Soccer in general is just a way better product at this point than any of the other major sports IMO, but even with soccer, I vastly prefer the FA Cup type games where there is no VAR and we just keep the game moving vs. stopping for a review any time someone takes a dive in the penalty box to see if it was a foul or not.

 

[bpo57]

Really didn’t see the urgency at any point last night. All of the chunk plays, except one, were jump balls that could have easily been interceptions. Rushing game didn’t feel like it could pop off with a long one, and they didn’t target their very good tight end nearly enough.

But sure, you’ve proven your point, eagles would have tied the game.

Once again none of that has anything to do with your comment that Philly had no chance to tie the game or go ahead with all that time left. I'm assuming you were out of the country during last year's playoff game between Buffalo and KC and that you've never witnessed a NFL two minute drive.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Once again none of that has anything to do with your comment that Philly had no chance to tie the game or go ahead with all that time left. I'm assuming you were out of the country during last year's playoff game between Buffalo and KC and that you've never witnessed a NFL two minute drive.

I didn’t see anything from Philly yesterday that showed the urgency and ability to make that drive. Please stop comparing the previous drives when KC was playing the defense they weren’t going to use foe the two minute drill. The long pass to Smith wasn’t going to happen again. They weren’t going to lose him twice. The second pass to Brown was almost intercepted. I’d argue a third would have sealed the game with an INT.

 

[bpo57]

I'm not sure he ever got a hold of anything. His hands are already free as the receiver is pulling away. It was more of a failed attempt to hold the receiver, who ran his route basically unimpeded.

yeah this minor tug has morphed into a clothesline tackle.

 

[bpo57]

I thought live that the fumble was an incomplete. But after watching the replay it was a catch IMO. I don't see how they overturned the call on the field. It was a huge call.

You have to make a football move after the catch. He never did. We may or may not like the rule but that's clearly been the rule for some time now. They overturned that call in about 10 seconds. You could tell an overturn was coming cuz KC's celebration was very muted. They knew it wasn't going to count.

 

[bpo57]

The wild thing about the hold is if he doesnt hold and the play ends up going to the endzone, JuJu scores a TD, its a much better situation for the Eagles.

Situational football. That was the worst case scenario but unfortunately these guys are so geeked up in the moment that they never even think about it. I sat there in my barcalounger b4 the play and thought please don't commit a penalty. Damn.

 

[upperdeck]

You have to make a football move after the catch. He never did. We may or may not like the rule but that's clearly been the rule for some time now. They overturned that call in about 10 seconds. You could tell an overturn was coming cuz KC's celebration was very muted. They knew it wasn't going to count.

it was easy to see it they would change it to a no catch and most of the time they do.. but they always say he needs to take a 3rd step and a move and thats not true either.

what if he just catches it and stands there for 5 secs and never does anything else..

he had time to catch, handle the ball and turn to get hit.. he didnt bobble it at all before the contact. 30 yrs ago before replay its a fumble all day.

 

[upperdeck]

Situational football. That was the worst case scenario but unfortunately these guys are so geeked up in the moment that they never even think about it. I sat there in my barcalounger b4 the play and thought please don't commit a penalty. Damn.

dbs have gotten used to grabbing to turn around almost all the time. they get away with it alot because they do it alot.. but it also gets called alot. if they call it 1 for 10 thats 9 times it helped you and they take that gamble.

much like WRs push off a ton, and rarely get called for it.

 

[bpo57]

I didn’t see anything from Philly yesterday that showed the urgency and ability to make that drive. Please stop comparing the previous drives when KC was playing the defense they weren’t going to use foe the two minute drill. The long pass to Smith wasn’t going to happen again. They weren’t going to lose him twice. The second pass to Brown was almost intercepted. I’d argue a third would have sealed the game with an INT.

1:45 is plenty of time. You don't need to go deep. So Philly wouldn't have played with urgency with 1:45 left? If anything KC would try to stop the deep ball cuz they likely lose if they give up a TD, making them vulnerable underneath. But Nostradamus thinks a drive to move 35-40 yards is absolutely out of the question. smh

 

[bpo57]

it was easy to see it they would change it to a no catch and most of the time they do.. but they always say he needs to take a 3rd step and a move and thats not true either.

what if he just catches it and stands there for 5 secs and never does anything else..

he had time to catch, handle the ball and turn to get hit.. he didnt bobble it at all before the contact. 30 yrs ago before replay its a fumble all day.

yeah it was a fumble before they changed the rule. Now it's not a fumble. Very simple.

 

[upperdeck]

yup. easy call they way they enforce the rule now.. And one reason they do it that way is to make the bang bang play less of a deal..

 

[MikeSU02]

My take as a Giants fan / and lessening NFL fan:

1) Refs being THE storyline. I hate it. The call at the end of the game that was maybe correct by the letter of the law, but the game hadn't been officiated that way and now that's the story. (IMO, you can't make that call after officiating it differently the whole game; and it looks really bad that they didn't throw the flag until Mahomes started complaining from what I saw). Also, the "what is a catch" question just keeps hanging over football games like a rain cloud.

2) The field was a mess. You have all world athletes slipping all over the place. How can this happen in 2023? NFL teams having to swap cleats during the SB in 2023 without a change in weather? Come on.

3) Why is Bradshaw still handling the mic after the game? Why is he making fat jokes? Embarrassing.

4) I really enjoy KB and Olsen as an announcing team. I hate the thought of having to listen to Tom Brady as Fox's #1 team instead of Olsen.

Ya, talking heads about Mahomes place in history and where he'll end up is fine. But unlike the NBA, NFL focuses on team success and validity. And while I don't think games are fixed, it's sure easy to see how games can be viewed as influenced by refs that appear to be unable to handle the evolving game crossed with the rules changes crossed with instant replay.

I dunno, those two teams were awesome. And now the remnants of the game are the call, the field, Mahomes place in history if you care about it and Rihanna doing the greatest pregnancy announcement in the history of the world.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Watched what I could of the game. Hard to do when at a party and with a couple small kids.

Didn't see exactly every detail of how the Chiefs took this from the Eagles, but just wanted to comment how absolutely boring it is to watch a team consume 2 whole minutes off the clock in an otherwise exciting game. Andy Reid staring the official down for 20 seconds was the play of the game apparently.

Bradshaw needs to go. He's just creepy at this point.

Andy! Big fella! Waddle over here. Yuck, yuck. So, are you retiring, or what? Yuck, yuck.

Remember when Fox had that weather girl (Jillian?) and Bradshaw would always yell, “How’s the weather in the mountains?” Referring to her chest.

Reid should have clocked him.

 

[SWC75]

dbs have gotten used to grabbing to turn around almost all the time. they get away with it alot because they do it alot.. but it also gets called alot. if they call it 1 for 10 thats 9 times it helped you and they take that gamble.

much like WRs push off a ton, and rarely get called for it.

And you could call holding on every play and clipping on most kick returns. But do you really want to do that?