The Boeheim Years: So What Have We Learned? | Syracusefan.com

The Boeheim Years: So What Have We Learned?

IthacaMatt

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First and foremost, I will always remember Buddy's great finish to his junior year, when he burst on to the national scene and carried us to a Sweet 16.

I am legitimately impressed that Jimmy Junior is such a baller. His final game was his best, but he had plenty of good games, and gave us 13 and 6 every night. So many "old man" back downs in the lane, and kisses off the glass. You could always count on him for at least 1 or 2 threes a game (if not six!). Not bad for an Ivy Leaguer, huh?

Cole Swider was, without argument, a better player for Syracuse than he was for Villanova. No question, Boeheim got much more out of him than everyone's favorite head coach, the guy with the nice suits at Nova. Honestly, of all our 1 and 2 year "rental players" at forward this past 10 years or so, I think he's clearly in the Top 4 or 5. He put up way better numbers than Ryan Blackwell, who I remember as not the fastest guy, either. And who wouldn't want Ryan Blackwell back on your team next year?

Can Symir play like that all the time? Probably not, but if he can give us 6 or 7 assists, not too many turnovers, and find a midrange jumpshot, then he could probably be good enough to start on next year's team - especially if we have Swider and Girard back to space the floor.

Yes, we need to be more physical, and more athletic on the baseline, too. But if you ask me, Jimmy was a worse defender than Cole, especially down low. Jimmy got pushed around worse underneath. Not his fault, but that was the most obvious weakness in Jimmy's game. Well, and the foul shots. I did not see his collapse in mid-season from foul line coming. And from a coach's son!

Although I think that Boeheim has under-utilized his bench horribly for many seasons now, we have to acknowledge that it has cost us lots of players. Some will say, "well, none of those guys are stars at their NEW schools, so they must not have been any good anyway."

But coaching gets players to learn how to fit, how to find their places within a system. And for a player to leave for another school, then he has *other* guys to compete with, who didn't come in with him and don't necessarily know the player. He has to get to know the new coaching staff, what THEY are looking for from players.

So, just because only 1 or 2 of those recent guys are tearing it up in the NBA right now, doesn't mean that the other guys couldn't have turned into Jeremy McNeil, or Josh Pace, or Kueth Duany, or Marius Janulis, or Jason Hart, or Damone Brown, or so many other guys who may not have become "stars", but they grew into essential guys to have on at least 1 or 2 teams in their 4 years.

Could Benny grow into one of those guys? Could Symir? Could Joe Girard lead this team, or does he need a couple side-kicks who know how things are supposed to work?

I DO like that Coach Boeheim varied the zone this year, going 1-3-1 to cover the foul line during the ACC season, and then springing that Box-and-2 on Duke in the tournament. Nice coaching moves left in the guy. When he wants to coach.

What do you think? What do you take away from the end of the 'Boeheim Boys" Era?
 
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MikeSU02

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First and foremost, I will always remember Buddy's great finish to his junior year, when he burst on to the national scene and carried us to a Sweet 16.

I am legitimately impressed that Jimmy Junior is such a baller. His final game was his best, but he had plenty of good games, and gave us 13 and 6 every night. So many "old man" back downs in the lane, and kisses off the glass. You could always count on him for at least 1 or 2 threes a game (if not six!). Not bad for an Ivy Leaguer, huh?

Cole Swider was, without argument, a better player for Syracuse than he was for Villanova. No question, Boeheim got much more out of him than everyone's favorite head coach, the guy with the nice suits at Nova. Honestly, of all our 1 and 2 year "rental players" at forward this past 10 years or so, I think he's clearly in the Top 4 or 5. He put up way better numbers than Ryan Blackwell, who I remember as not the fastest guy, either. And who wouldn't want Ryan Blackwell back on your team next year?

Can Symir play like that all the time? Probably not, but if he can give us 6 or 7 assists, not too many turnovers, and find a midrange jumpshot, then he could probably be good enough to start on next year's team - especially if we have Swider and Girard back to space the floor.

Yes, we need to be more physical, and more athletic on the baseline, too. But if you ask me, Jimmy was a worse defender than Cole, especially down low. Jimmy got pushed around worse underneath. Not his fault, but that was the most obvious weakness in Jimmy's game. Well, and the foul shots. I did not see his collapse in mid-season from foul line coming. And from a coach's son!

Although I think that Boeheim has under-utilized his bench horribly for many seasons now, we have to acknowledge that it has cost us lots of players. Some will say, "well, none of those guys are stars at their NEW schools, so they must not have been any good anyway."

But coaching gets players to learn how to fit, how to find their places within a system. And for a player to leave for another school, then he has *other* guys to compete with, who didn't come in with him and don't necessarily know the player. He has to get to know the new coaching staff, what THEY are looking for from players.

So, just because only 1 or 2 of those recent guys are tearing it up in the NBA right now, doesn't mean that the other guys couldn't have turned into Jeremy McNeil, or Josh Pace, or Kueth Duany, or Marius Janulis, or Jason Hart, or Damone Brown, or so many other guys who may not have become "stars", but they grew into essential guys to have on at least 1 or 2 teams in their 4 years.

Could Benny grow into one of those guys? Could Symir? Could Joe Girard lead this team, or does he need a couple side-kicks who know how things are supposed to work?

I DO like that Coach Boeheim varied the zone this year, going 1-3-1 to cover the foul line during the ACC season, and then springing that Box-and-2 on Duke in the tournament. Nice coaching moves left in the guy. When he wants to coach.

What do you think? What do you take away from the end of the 'Boeheim Boys" Era?

The run last year and Buddy ascending to insane heights. Dude was like out of a comic book.

Jimmy, honestly, this may seem odd - but that last game against Duke. He toed the line against a beast of an opponent. And he kept coming back over and over. And the whole team, for that matter.

Overall, varying degrees of abilities on those teams that, at times, could get hot and be really entertaining. A lot of good dudes to root for like Marek, Bras, etc.

The emergence of Jesse.

I think Cole can have a heckuva year next year. Never know if Joe gets off ball. Benny still may break out.

I’ll table the complaints for another time.
 

djcon57

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What do you think? What do you take away from the end of the 'Boeheim Boys" Era?
Buddy - one of the better shooters in Syracuse history
the era in General - missed opportunities

what Joe does next year will really drive home the level of how good the opportunity was or wasn’t
 

IthacaMatt

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The run last year and Buddy ascending to insane heights. Dude was like out of a comic book.

Jimmy, honestly, this may seem odd - but that last game against Duke. He toed the line against a beast of an opponent. And he kept coming back over and over. And the whole team, for that matter.

Overall, varying degrees of abilities on those teams that, at times, could get hot and be really entertaining. A lot of good dudes to root for like Marek, Bras, etc.

The emergence of Jesse.

I think Cole can have a heckuva year next year. Never know if Joe gets off ball. Benny still may break out.

I’ll table the complaints for another time.


That was my feeling, too. This could have been a very special year. So it was important to remember there were some very high points, too, where it really seemed like we could beat anybody.
 

IthacaMatt

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My lasting memories of this season will be awkward courtside interviews and cringeworthy post-game press conferences.

Certainly a fair reponse. I feel like it has been a problem that started with some of the local media, and then recently, if felt like we entered the era of:
 

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ottodaorange

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First and foremost, I will always remember Buddy's great finish to his junior year, when he burst on to the national scene and carried us to a Sweet 16.

I am legitimately impressed that Jimmy Junior is such a baller. His final game was his best, but he had plenty of good games, and gave us 13 and 6 every night. So many "old man" back downs in the lane, and kisses off the glass. You could always count on him for at least 1 or 2 threes a game (if not six!). Not bad for an Ivy Leaguer, huh?

Cole Swider was, without argument, a better player for Syracuse than he was for Villanova. No question, Boeheim got much more out of him than everyone's favorite head coach, the guy with the nice suits at Nova. Honestly, of all our 1 and 2 year "rental players" at forward this past 10 years or so, I think he's clearly in the Top 4 or 5. He put up way better numbers than Ryan Blackwell, who I remember as not the fastest guy, either. And who wouldn't want Ryan Blackwell back on your team next year?

Can Symir play like that all the time? Probably not, but if he can give us 6 or 7 assists, not too many turnovers, and find a midrange jumpshot, then he could probably be good enough to start on next year's team - especially if we have Swider and Girard back to space the floor.

Yes, we need to be more physical, and more athletic on the baseline, too. But if you ask me, Jimmy was a worse defender than Cole, especially down low. Jimmy got pushed around worse underneath. Not his fault, but that was the most obvious weakness in Jimmy's game. Well, and the foul shots. I did not see his collapse in mid-season from foul line coming. And from a coach's son!

Although I think that Boeheim has under-utilized his bench horribly for many seasons now, we have to acknowledge that it has cost us lots of players. Some will say, "well, none of those guys are stars at their NEW schools, so they must not have been any good anyway."

But coaching gets players to learn how to fit, how to find their places within a system. And for a player to leave for another school, then he has *other* guys to compete with, who didn't come in with him and don't necessarily know the player. He has to get to know the new coaching staff, what THEY are looking for from players.

So, just because only 1 or 2 of those recent guys are tearing it up in the NBA right now, doesn't mean that the other guys couldn't have turned into Jeremy McNeil, or Josh Pace, or Kueth Duany, or Marius Janulis, or Jason Hart, or Damone Brown, or so many other guys who may not have become "stars", but they grew into essential guys to have on at least 1 or 2 teams in their 4 years.

Could Benny grow into one of those guys? Could Symir? Could Joe Girard lead this team, or does he need a couple side-kicks who know how things are supposed to work?

I DO like that Coach Boeheim varied the zone this year, going 1-3-1 to cover the foul line during the ACC season, and then springing that Box-and-2 on Duke in the tournament. Nice coaching moves left in the guy. When he wants to coach.

What do you think? What do you take away from the end of the 'Boeheim Boys" Era?
Hear, Hear!
 

IthacaMatt

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Season just ended poorly. I think we can afford to have one thread that tries to treat them kindly. It didn't have to end this way. Just remember, it's not Buddy's or Jimmy's fault their dad played them 36-38 minutes a game.
 

miamicuse

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Marek has this grit, taking that charge and playing with a broken tooth.

Last year's S16 run was fun, unexpected and buddy got insanely hot for a few games.

Defense has been a low priority this year. Not sure if it's by design, a lack of effort or accepting the lack of personnel that's will and able to play it. I didn't even see any diving for loose balls, or may be it was just the by product of having to preserve as much energy as possible at the end of games because starters have to play 35+ minutes. I hope we can make an attempt back to playing defense next year when JB can coach a "normal" team without bias.

Joe plays MUCH BETTER at the 2. Even JB acknowledged it in his presser. Also from JB "...cause we are slow and we can't handle pressure".

and finally, I hope JB will watch this interview of his not too long ago.

Jim Boeheim: My practice is not fun

Note how many times he said be fair, to be consistent and even handed to the players. I hope he can go back to being that JB for next year.
 

Trueblue25

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That anything less than 50 straight winning seasons is unacceptable.

Am I doing this right
 

tbonezone

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well bilas and shulman certainly got in their shots of Jimmy's YMCA league moves .
 

tbonezone

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Certainly a fair reponse. I feel like it has been a problem that started with some of the local media, and then recently, if felt like we entered the era of:
JB's continued antipathy towards the local press has not served him well. god help him if they every get truly nasty and instead of lobbing softballs throw it inside high and tight.
 

IthacaMatt

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That anything less than 50 straight winning seasons is unacceptable.

Am I doing this right

A remarkable achievement. Best of all time. He is beyond a legend.

Time to go. The timing is perfect. Both of his boys had their "Shining Moments" to feed their family relationships and community relationships for a lifetime.

I guess one more year makes sense as a redemption tour, but he has to play more players, and he has to use the starters normal minutes, not iron man minutes, or else half of them will leave AGAIN, and then, "what's the point"?

If you are going to recruit a team, you have to let them all try to find their role in at least a few games.
 

721Comstock

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First and foremost, I will always remember Buddy's great finish to his junior year, when he burst on to the national scene and carried us to a Sweet 16.

I am legitimately impressed that Jimmy Junior is such a baller. His final game was his best, but he had plenty of good games, and gave us 13 and 6 every night. So many "old man" back downs in the lane, and kisses off the glass. You could always count on him for at least 1 or 2 threes a game (if not six!). Not bad for an Ivy Leaguer, huh?

Cole Swider was, without argument, a better player for Syracuse than he was for Villanova. No question, Boeheim got much more out of him than everyone's favorite head coach, the guy with the nice suits at Nova. Honestly, of all our 1 and 2 year "rental players" at forward this past 10 years or so, I think he's clearly in the Top 4 or 5. He put up way better numbers than Ryan Blackwell, who I remember as not the fastest guy, either. And who wouldn't want Ryan Blackwell back on your team next year?

Can Symir play like that all the time? Probably not, but if he can give us 6 or 7 assists, not too many turnovers, and find a midrange jumpshot, then he could probably be good enough to start on next year's team - especially if we have Swider and Girard back to space the floor.

Yes, we need to be more physical, and more athletic on the baseline, too. But if you ask me, Jimmy was a worse defender than Cole, especially down low. Jimmy got pushed around worse underneath. Not his fault, but that was the most obvious weakness in Jimmy's game. Well, and the foul shots. I did not see his collapse in mid-season from foul line coming. And from a coach's son!

Although I think that Boeheim has under-utilized his bench horribly for many seasons now, we have to acknowledge that it has cost us lots of players. Some will say, "well, none of those guys are stars at their NEW schools, so they must not have been any good anyway."

But coaching gets players to learn how to fit, how to find their places within a system. And for a player to leave for another school, then he has *other* guys to compete with, who didn't come in with him and don't necessarily know the player. He has to get to know the new coaching staff, what THEY are looking for from players.

So, just because only 1 or 2 of those recent guys are tearing it up in the NBA right now, doesn't mean that the other guys couldn't have turned into Jeremy McNeil, or Josh Pace, or Kueth Duany, or Marius Janulis, or Jason Hart, or Damone Brown, or so many other guys who may not have become "stars", but they grew into essential guys to have on at least 1 or 2 teams in their 4 years.

Could Benny grow into one of those guys? Could Symir? Could Joe Girard lead this team, or does he need a couple side-kicks who know how things are supposed to work?

I DO like that Coach Boeheim varied the zone this year, going 1-3-1 to cover the foul line during the ACC season, and then springing that Box-and-2 on Duke in the tournament. Nice coaching moves left in the guy. When he wants to coach.

What do you think? What do you take away from the end of the 'Boeheim Boys" Era?

6-7 assists?

So, you want him to be MCW?
Or Jonny?

Not too too much to ask. :rolleyes:


Scoop’s best season avg was 5.9.

And then you hafta go to GMAC ‘06 to find another 5.9.

Last guy over 6 past that was Griff in ‘01.

People throw out these ridiculous #’s in such an offhand way, not realizing how incredibly rare it is for players to achieve them.

That’s like with blocks - so and so (let’s say Jesse) could just get 3-4 blocks per game, that’d be pretty solid.

NO. That would be historically AWESOME.

Only a small handful of SU players have ever averaged 3 blocks for a season, and Etan is the only one who ever did 4.
 

pfister1

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6-7 assists?

So, you want him to be MCW?
Or Jonny?

Not too too much to ask. :rolleyes:


Scoop’s best season avg was 5.9.

And then you hafta go to GMAC ‘06 to find another 5.9.

Last guy over 6 past that was Griff in ‘01.

People throw out these ridiculous #’s in such an offhand way, not realizing how incredibly rare it is for players to achieve them.

That’s like with blocks - so and so (let’s say Jesse) could just get 3-4 blocks per game, that’d be pretty solid.

NO. That would be historically AWESOME.

Only a small handful of SU players have ever averaged 3 blocks for a season, and Etan is the only one who ever did 4.


Not to mention it’s more reasonable to have higher per game numbers when your team is playing at an 80+ ppg scoring pace like in the late 70s or 80s as opposed to if you played in the more recent era where we played a slower offensive pace.
 

IthacaMatt

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6-7 assists?

So, you want him to be MCW?
Or Jonny?

Not too too much to ask. :rolleyes:


Scoop’s best season avg was 5.9.

And then you hafta go to GMAC ‘06 to find another 5.9.

Last guy over 6 past that was Griff in ‘01.

People throw out these ridiculous #’s in such an offhand way, not realizing how incredibly rare it is for players to achieve them.

That’s like with blocks - so and so (let’s say Jesse) could just get 3-4 blocks per game, that’d be pretty solid.

NO. That would be historically AWESOME.

Only a small handful of SU players have ever averaged 3 blocks for a season, and Etan is the only one who ever did 4.


And if you look back at the number of minutes Scoop played to get his 6 assists (5.9 might as well be 6), he only played 32 minutes, and his next best year (4.9, which might as well be 5) he only played 24 minutes.

So, if Boeheim now plays his PGs 36-38 minutes, you don't think they could get 1 or 2 more assists?

Etan's last 3 seasons, he averaged only 30 minutes a game to put up those numbers. Boeheim doesn't seem to coach like that anymore.
 

721Comstock

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And if you look back at the number of minutes Scoop played to get his 6 assists (5.9 might as well be 6), he only played 32 minutes, and his next best year (4.9, which might as well be 5) he only played 24 minutes.

So, if Boeheim now plays his PGs 36-38 minutes, you don't think they could get 1 or 2 more assists?

Etan's last 3 seasons, he averaged only 30 minutes a game to put up those numbers. Boeheim doesn't seem to coach like that anymore.

Tyler Ennis was the best pure PG we’ve had in the past decade.

He narrowly missed out being McD AA in HS.
(kinda got robbed).

He played 36 mpg.
And averaged 5.5 assists.

With a MUCH better and more talented surrounding cast - team was ranked in Top 25 all year.

All of which led to him being a 1st round draft pick in the NBA.


But sure - we’re gonna have some kid barely in the Top 100 come in (with 5 other freshmen) and do better than that. :rolleyes:
 

Sherman20

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Tyler Ennis was the best pure PG we’ve had in the past decade.

He narrowly missed out being McD AA in HS.
(kinda got robbed).

He played 36 mpg.
And averaged 5.5 assists.

With a MUCH better and more talented surrounding cast - team was ranked in Top 25 all year.

All of which led to him being a 1st round draft pick in the NBA.


But sure - we’re gonna have some kid barely in the Top 100 come in (with 5 other freshmen) and do better than that. :rolleyes:
Judah Mintz is “barely in the top 100”? I thought he was a top 30 or 40 kid.
 

kcsu

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Jim liked this years team. Granted losing Jesse for 9 games was a blow but we lacked balance and ended up having the worst season in 50 years.
Jim has proclaimed this years class his best ever. Hopefully that equates to a good record.
 

721Comstock

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Judah Mintz is “barely in the top 100”? I thought he was a top 30 or 40 kid.

This convo started before we landed Judah Mintz.

It was about Quadir.
Who is barely Top 100.
Along with his classmates.

But - unless Mintz is the Second Coming of Ennis, my original point still stands:
We’re not getting 6-8 assists / game from a Frosh PG.
 

IthacaMatt

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This convo started before we landed Judah Mintz.

It was about Quadir.
Who is barely Top 100.
Along with his classmates.

But - unless Mintz is the Second Coming of Ennis, my original point still stands:
We’re not getting 6-8 assists / game from a Frosh PG.

Just for the record, since you seem a bit stuck on the number of assists someone might expect per season, we have had 30 seasons since 1980 (roughly 3/4 of them all) where our leading assist guy had at least 4.9 assists per game, so roughly 5 per game.

Fifteen times we have had guys average roughly 6 or more per game (cut-off of 5.9). The last one was MCW, who average 7.3 assists his sophomore year. Ennis averaged 5.5, and. John Gillon 5.4.

So asking a guy to get 5 to 7 assists is a good target. We hit it more often than not.
 

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