The Coyle decision

[RoatanCuse]

young players ...young player.young players competing with the best in the league far better than even last year and being right there with our peers. If we lose to BC i will probably change my tune

To me at least, the young player excuse is getting lame. At some poin depth should have been recruited. This debacle is on the staff. Own it.

 

[orangenirvana]

What exactly did he inherit? Was it the outstanding staff that was left behind for him...was it the 3 year starting QB, or the roster chock full of 4 and 5 star recruits? He inherited a program that was pretty mediocre at best with a full staff that left and a roster of mostly 2 and 3 star recruits.

A Top 35 team the previous season, coming off two bowl wins over the last three seasons. A rising program with a solid foundation and momentum. That's extremely important.

Hmmm... so TCU and Baylor, both in recruiting hotbeds with great coaches that get paid millions more that SU is willing to spend on a HC are comparable programs to SU, they also have ridiculous booster support, both in TX for GOd's sakes.

You couldn't have picked 2 worse schools to compare to SU, they have every advantage that SU doesn't.

Briles turned around Baylor with the same level of recruit that Shafer is currently Gerging with.

 

[Townie72]

A Top 35 team the previous season, coming off two bowl wins over the last three seasons. A rising program with a solid foundation and momentum. That's extremely important.

Briles turned around Baylor with the same level of recruit that Shafer is currently Gerging with.

You aren't depending on the highly flawed star system as the basis of your analysis, are you?

It's a more-than-highly subjective system based on totla guesswork. And even so, I'd guess the average 3 star in Texas is better than the average 3 star in NY.

 

[CuseOnly]

A Top 35 team the previous season, coming off two bowl wins over the last three seasons. A rising program with a solid foundation and momentum. That's extremely important.

Briles turned around Baylor with the same level of recruit that Shafer is currently Gerging with.

You mean a top 35 team that lost it's 3 year starting QB, the majority of it's offensive playmakers including a record setting WR and a great TE. It's best 2 offensive linemen and the entire coaching staff that orchestrated the top 35 team. Yep, he inherited tons...of uncertainty.

I also agree with townie...with regard to 3 stars from the NE compared to 3 stars from TX...night and day difference.

 

[TheCusian]

A Top 35 team the previous season, coming off two bowl wins over the last three seasons. A rising program with a solid foundation and momentum. That's extremely important. Briles turned around Baylor with the same level of recruit that Shafer is currently Gerging with.

Or a bowl year vs a 100+ SOS, a horrible 5 losses to close out 2011, and a very good year with seniors on O but no good skilled offensive players behind them.

I'm not defending Shafer at all - he should be gone. But the supposed uptick in the program left when Nassib graduated and Marrone took Hackett. It was one great year and a whole lot of Shafer carrying Marrone on his back.

 

[orangenirvana]

You aren't depending on the highly flawed star system as the basis of your analysis, are you?

It's a more-than-highly subjective system based on totla guesswork. And even so, I'd guess the average 3 star in Texas is better than the average 3 star in NY.

Then it's a good thing we don't recruit many 3 stars from NY.

You mean a top 35 team that lost it's 3 year starting QB, the majority of it's offensive playmakers including a record setting WR and a great TE. It's best 2 offensive linemen and the entire coaching staff that orchestrated the top 35 team. Yep, he inherited tons...of uncertainty.

I also agree with townie...with regard to 3 stars from the NE compared to 3 stars from TX...night and day difference.

This is college football. Players graduate. It's not very common to return 22 starters. Was that your expectation?

I just love the "cupboard was bare" folks. This argument would apply in Year 1. Or if Shafer was winning 5 or 6 games. But his is year 3. Enough of the freakin excuses.

 

[TheCusian]

Then it's a good thing we don't recruit many 3 stars from NY. This is college football. Players graduate. It's not very common to return 22 starters. Was that your expectation? I just love the "cupboard was bare" folks. This argument would apply in Year 1. Or if Shafer was winning 5 or 6 games. But his is year 3. Enough of the freakin excuses.

Lack of good Jr/Sr = odd problem to have for a great recruiter like Marrone

I agree that it shouldn't be used as an excuse - other coaches take young players and look far more competitive, but you really can't deny that bare cupboard has at least some truth to it.

 

[orangenirvana]

Lack of good Jr/Sr = odd problem to have for a great recruiter like Marrone

I agree that it shouldn't be used as an excuse - other coaches take young players and look far more competitive, but you really can't deny that bare cupboard has at least some truth to it.

No one is saying Marrone was a great recruiter and he left Shafer with elite NFL talent capable of beating the likes of Clemson and Florida State.

But he did leave enough to win more than an average of 4 games in a three year span.

Besides - like I've said it's not even about the number of wins and losses for me. It's about the dumb decisions, horrible offensive statistics and lack of progress and development we're seeing in the young players.

 

[TheCusian]

No one is saying Marrone was a great recruiter and he left Shafer with elite NFL talent capable of beating the likes of Clemson and Florida State. But he did leave enough to win more than an average of 4 games in a three year span. Besides - like I've said it's not even about the number of wins and losses for me. It's about the dumb decisions, horrible offensive statistics and lack of progress and development we're seeing in the young players.

Agree with all that.

No question Marrone could get more out of less talent. Which was good since he couldn't recruit well.

 

[GoSU96]

Agree with all that.

No question Marrone could get more out of less talent. Which was good since he couldn't recruit well.

The talent on the roster improved greatly when he was here. They didn't do well with one position group, WR. That's it.

For the shitsandwich they walked into, they did about as well as could be expected.

 

[jekelish]

The talent on the roster improved greatly when he was here. They didn't do well with one position group, WR. That's it.

For the shitsandwich they walked into, they did about as well as could be expected.

Well, I'm not sure how you could say that he left the QB situation better than he found it. Nassib wasn't his guy, and he left us with Hunt and Wilson. That's not exactly an improvement.

 

[orangenirvana]

Well, I'm not sure how you could say that he left the QB situation better than he found it. Nassib wasn't his guy, and he left us with Hunt and Wilson. That's not exactly an improvement.

Maybe Hunt and Wilson would have been fine under the previous staff. Who knows. Plus there was Zach Allen or anyone else they would have recruited between then and now.

 

[Alsacs]

Well, I'm not sure how you could say that he left the QB situation better than he found it. Nassib wasn't his guy, and he left us with Hunt and Wilson. That's not exactly an improvement.

Who was the QB in 2013 when we beat NC State, Maryland, Wake Forest, Boston College, Minnesota?

He was left a QB to manage games with Nassib in 2010. It isn't DM fault Hunt got hurt his Junior and Senior years. It isn't DM fault that the OC hired was a clownshow. SS was left a QB to work with in Terrel Hunt.

 

[GoSU96]

Well, I'm not sure how you could say that he left the QB situation better than he found it. Nassib wasn't his guy, and he left us with Hunt and Wilson. That's not exactly an improvement.

The overall roster improved, significantly, you want to contest that? That's the statement I made.

As for QB Hunt was 9-7 in the games he started and in the last three games of last year was over two hundred yards passing in each. I'm sure that record would have been a couple of games better with an actually qualified OC instead of the dumbass who had the job. And Wilson was developmental player, he was a back who needed coaching, not playing right away.

The only position there was a consistent problem was WR, and Jerrod West had two seasons with more catches and more yards than Ishmael this year. Hell Broyld had 52 catches in 2013 and Ishmael is going to be lucky to get to 40 this year.

 

[jekelish]

Who was the QB in 2013 when we beat NC State, Maryland, Wake Forest, Boston College, Minnesota?

He was left a QB to manage games with Nassib in 2010. It isn't DM fault Hunt got hurt his Junior and Senior years. It isn't DM fault that the OC hired was a clownshow. SS was left a QB to work with in Terrel Hunt.

He was left with a QB to work with but he wasn't left with more talent at the position than what came before, which is my point. That was the original assertion, that WR is the only position where the talent wasn't upgraded under Marrone.

 

[Alsacs]

He was left with a QB to work with but he wasn't left with more talent at the position than what came before, which is my point. That was the original assertion, that WR is the only position where the talent wasn't upgraded under Marrone.

Allen/Hunt 2013 weren't that much different from Paulus/Nassib 2009.

People take Nassib's development for granted. That was coaching. The talent of Hunt should have been sufficient to be competitive. SS wasn't left with anything worse than DM inherited. If the talent is equal I would say that would suffice. SS inherited a decent roster 6-7 win roster.

 

[TheCusian]

The talent on the roster improved greatly when he was here. They didn't do well with one position group, WR. That's it. For the shitsandwich they walked into, they did about as well as could be expected.

QB?

 

[TheCusian]

Who was the QB in 2013 when we beat NC State, Maryland, Wake Forest, Boston College, Minnesota? He was left a QB to manage games with Nassib in 2010. It isn't DM fault Hunt got hurt his Junior and Senior years. It isn't DM fault that the OC hired was a clownshow. SS was left a QB to work with in Terrel Hunt.

Hunt in 2016 then ?

 

[rrlbees]

Allen/Hunt 2013 weren't that much different from Paulus/Nassib 2009. People take Nassib's development for granted. That was coaching. The talent of Hunt should have been sufficient to be competitive. SS wasn't left with anything worse than DM inherited. If the talent is equal I would say that would suffice. SS inherited a decent roster 6-7 win roster.

The potential for Nassib to be developed into a very good QB was infinitely better than Hunt.

 

[GoSU96]

QB?

Here's what I know, Marrone and Hackett were confident enough with they had recruited at the position that the horrible QB that went 9-7 with McF't as OC would have been playing safety in 2013.

A bad recruiter doesn't improve the talent in the program as much as Marrone did.

 

[kcsu]

I dont think there is any question that Doug was a good coach but a lousy recruiter. Scott is a good D coach a good recruiter but to date a poor head coach. HCSS downfall will be the fact that he hired McDonald. I think that if he had started with Lester we would be ok today. That and the injuries are what killed this program way more so than his lack of good coaching which in my opinion is way over blown. Because of McDonald and the injuries he lost a development year one that was critical given the youth of the team. I actually think that if provided time this staff could get it right but going back to back with 3-4 wins is going to be too much for Coyle to deal with. In short 3 more wins over two years and HCSS gets extended. It is truly a game of inches.

 

[Whitey23]

I put this in the coaching search thread too.

Syracuse: Following yesterday’s loss at NC State, Syracuse has now lost 8 straight games and for the second season in a row Syracuse only has one ACC win. In three years as head coach, Shafer has seen his team’s win totals drop from 7 to 3 to 3 (with one game remaining vs Boston College). Sources tell FootballScoop that members of Shafer’s staff believe they, as a group, will not return next season.

 

[elimunelson]

I fully expect a news drop to one of the national college writers that shafer is not coming back next year. Allows us to be open for business for incoming that we may be surprised about.

 

[CuseLegacy]

That is a little strange wording..."they as a group".

 

[OrangeXtreme]

That is a little strange wording..."they as a group".

A new broom sweeps clean.

New coach = entirely new staff.