"The Dome roof"

[Cusester]

The chance for the state government to fund a stadium came and went.

Never say never. If AC needs the upstate vote to be re-elected, he'll do whatever it takes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

South campus is still campus.

But it isn’t the inner harbor...

 

[BillSU]

But it isn’t the inner harbor...

“A new build isn't happening. It is going to be a renovation of the Dome. Things are already in motion.”

I would take Legacy's comment as gospel.

A new roof will be built over the top of the current one.

Whether the name will be the same remains to be seen - but I think it will be a new one.

The building is the iconic, athletic signature at Syracuse known worldwide as the athletic venue for S.U. Sports., and the only one of its kind anywhere.

Since its opening on September 20, 1980. For many of its 38 year old life the name “Carrier Dome” was the name used by national and local advertising. The continued constant use of the name especially by the media, newspapers, television, and eventually the internet - due to the success of Syracuse's basketball, and football teams have contributed in the name being shortened and morphing to “The Dome.”

For Carrier to have received naming rights if the university athletic department and the chancellor were smarter then, they would have placed a price tag, say $1 million per year and it would have accrued by this date in today's dollars $36,250,000 instead of $2,750,000. That was in the days of - don't know that we should have "given away" the right to put the sponsors name on our building.

The new M.O. Goes this way at least for the NFL:

New Vikings stadium will be named for U.S. Bank “To help defray their costs, team owners Mark and Zygi Wilf are selling stadium-builder licenses that season ticket-holders must buy for the right to purchase game tickets. Those sales are expected to raise $125 million.

In the decades since the Metrodome opened in 1982, naming rights have become a tidy revenue source for owners of professional sports teams. In contrast, the Metrodome was posthumously named after former Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey at no cost to his estate.

Even with lots of room for error, the Wilfs’ deal is the richest in the Twin Cities.
The published cost to U.S. Bank of $220 million would amount to about $10 million annually for the Vikings.”//

I am one of those die hard, bleed orange fans that doesn't give a damn where the money comes from as long as the roof and renovation gets done. It's been too long. I don't want to wait any more. I am also one of those who believe that whatever happens to the Dome my faith in those that are working ”very hard” to see that it is the best option we have once it's done will benefit Dino's program, the team, recruits, the wonderful feeling the alumni have in their chests who come back to every game to visit their beloved SU, the campus and hopefully a greatly improved Dome even though it might be named differently - say The JP Morgan Chase Bank Orange Stadium on the campus of Syracuse University, and most of all the citizens of Syracuse and its surrounding counties.

I do not agree with a previous poster that alumni do not care about their football program. I believe most of us agree that our football program should be the best in the ACC along with basketball.

You want better football records for S.U. - it's coming this year and the next and the next from Baber's system. You want a better recruiting system and better players, let the newly roofed and reno'd building speak to recruits. We have the coaching staff in place. If you want to play in the ACC, to a certain extent you have to spend to keep up with them.

Wildhack didn't get where he did from SU to ESPN because he's a dummy. He knows all about the new ACC TV rights and revenue because he developed the system for ESPN for all of college football and knows how to work the system. He'll make sure were all about TV exposure and it's income in the new upcoming ACC Network.

Your watching history. Don't close your eyes or mind off from what you are about to witness. We should all do the best we can with our SU, its athletic and academic programs and feel great about what we are creating. GOSU

 

[IthacaMatt]

there are dozens of events each year that the community gets to see in comfort because of the dome that are not related to SU. we could never have hosted ncaa bball, converts, HS sports would not be as convenient, monster trucks, religious events etc..

why is the dome a bad location? is it any easier to get to any other place of this size? how many cities have easy places to get to that cost concerts or conventions or sporting events.? if you cant walk, parking/driving is a pain for almost all of them? the dome is actually pretty easy in and out compared to almost all the places to compare it too? easier than Buff or roch or albany and vastly easier than NY or Boston

Let's be honest here. The university has cut WAY back on public use of on campus facilities by the community.

 

[Townie72]

Sorry, I didn't see that you had quoted a post about preferred seating and that no longer being tax deductible. That is true and definitely not a good thing for SU, or any school, really. Will be interesting to see how the accountants try to work around that.

This ability to write off seat licenses disguised as some sort of charitable contribution or even the cost of sports tickets supposedly used for client entertainment has always seemed to me to be a giant ripoff. I’m glad to see it go and I hope they can successfully stop the practice.

I get that it will cost Universities some money.

But the abuses I have personally seen of this are widespread and blatant.

I have a neighbor who is with a DC law firm. They have prime tickets to everything and I have sat in those seats many times. I have never seen a client of the firm in any of these seats, just the lawyers and their friends, wives and dates.

That the rest of the taxpayers are subsidizing this is clearly just not right. When I am at these games, I have looked out at the rest of the poor slobs that have to pay their way without writing the cost off on their taxes which is what I usually have to do.

There’s rarely any charity in the intention of those paying these seat fees. It’s just a discount On the cost of entertainment.

Now I pay as little tax as the law allows and the accountant will sign off on. But people have to feel the system is fair and this clearly isn’t. This is a flat out subsidizing the moneyed at the expense of everyone else for a luxury good.

 

[Townie72]

“A new build isn't happening. It is going to be a renovation of the Dome. Things are already in motion.

I am one of those die hard, bleed orange fans that doesn't give a damn where the money comes from as long as the roof and renovation gets done. It's been too long. I don't want to wait any more.

A couple of points:

If the price offered Carrier was $1 million a year instead of a onetime $2.5 million GIFT, Carrier might have passed on the “opportunity” altogether.

SU isn’t the Minnesota Vikings, Onondaga County is not the State of Minnesota and ACC football is not the NFL. This is way beyond an apples and oranges comparison.

Of course the diehards don’t care where the money comes from and they want it “now"!

Therein lies the problem. It has to come from somewhere.

And it's within the realm of possibility that even a huge amount of spending might not yield one more win or one more customer. And SU is looking at that versus other places they might spend money to attract more tuition-paying students.

The future of high-priced, medium quality private schools like SU is certainly not assured. They cannot afford to spend a huge amount of money on athletic facility without getting a return. They are literally betting the future of the University.

 

[kcsu]

A couple of points:

If the price offered Carrier was $1 million a year instead of a onetime $2.5 million GIFT, Carrier might have passed on the “opportunity” altogether.

SU isn’t the Minnesota Vikings, Onondaga County is not the State of Minnesota and ACC football is not the NFL. This is way beyond an apples and oranges comparison.

Of course the diehards don’t care where the money comes from and they want it “now"!

Therein lies the problem. It has to come from somewhere.

And it's within the realm of possibility that even a huge amount of spending might not yield one more win or one more customer. And SU is looking at that versus other places they might spend money to attract more tuition-paying students.

The future of high-priced, medium quality private schools like SU is certainly not assured. They cannot afford to spend a huge amount of money on athletic facility without getting a return. They are literally betting the future of the University.

Question. What is the value of the exposure Syracuse receives when its athletic teams do well or have a special situation like upsetting Clemson or being the last team selected to March Madness?
My daughter attends Loyola of Chicago and im positive they will receive a record number of applications this year. I understand your point but the success of Syracuse athletics is extremely important to the overall health of the University.

 

[Townie72]

Question. What is the value of the exposure Syracuse receives when its athletic teams do well or have a special situation like upsetting Clemson or being the last team selected to March Madness?
My daughter attends Loyola of Chicago and im positive they will receive a record number of applications this year. I understand your point but the success of Syracuse athletics is extremely important to the overall health of the University.

Talk about "measuring at the extremes" to attempt to prove a point.

You aren't seriously comparing the minor miracle of L of C on the National stage in the Final 4 with SU upsetting Clemson in the regular season game?

I'll agree that huge wins or lots of wins have a very positive affect on school. But a single win or run doesn't have very long legs. Just ask George Mason or FGCU.

But the more important point is that spending a huge amount of money on a greatly upgraded Dome may not improve SU's athletic fortunes or programs to any appreciable degree. The Dome boosted SU attendance but didn't translate in to many more wins for seven years.

It's a huge gamble, in my mind.

Maryland spent a ton of money on facilities and made itself vulnerable to the almost hostile takeover by the B1G and the hoped for bigger crowds and more victories never materialized. What they have instead are acres of unsold seats and empty VIP suites.

Of course, the average fan is willing for the University to take the risk, because it ain't their money.

SU can't afford to guess wrong and end up with a White Elephant. State schools can. Just ask Rutgers. They just raise student fees and dip into the General Fund. They have State funding to help them keep the lights on.

 

[Arangeman]

The question is when. I have worked at universities and I know it takes 5 committees to move a fencepost 10 feet but the natives are getting restless.

I am constantly bombarded by fundraising requests from SU for everything but what I want to give to. The mass fundraising for the “New Dome” should already have been initiated. Yes it would help to have specific plans but the litany of excuses strikes as heel dragging. The lack of grass roots fundraising appears to make breaking ground that much further away. Create some damn momentum. And I know it’s a way bigger capital project than small donations can fund but it can’t hurt.

We all have an anecdote. My buddy has had 1st level seasons for years at the 40 behind the SU bench. Last year he dumped them and grabbed a couple in the 3rd level because he was tired of paying premium prices to press sweaty thighs with some dude for 4 hours. It’s actually more comfortable to watch a game up there. That’s a problem.

 

[shandeezy7]

The question is when. I have worked at universities and I know it takes 5 committees to move a fencepost 10 feet but the natives are getting restless.

I am constantly bombarded by fundraising requests from SU for everything but what I want to give to. The mass fundraising for the “New Dome” should already have been initiated. Yes it would help to have specific plans but the litany of excuses strikes as heel dragging. The lack of grass roots fundraising appears to make breaking ground that much further away. Create some damn momentum. And I know it’s a way bigger capital project than small donations can fund but it can’t hurt.

We all have an anecdote. My buddy has had 1st level seasons for years at the 40 behind the SU bench. Last year he dumped them and grabbed a couple in the 3rd level because he was tired of paying premium prices to press sweaty thighs with some dude for 4 hours. It’s actually more comfortable to watch a game up there. That’s a problem.

People keep harping on "grassroots" fundraising for the Dome, but in the grand scheme of things, that type of fundraising will be a drop in the bucket in terms of the funds needed for this project. Something like 90% of total dollars raised by non-profits comes from 10% or less of its donors. Small donations from the general public here and there will certainly help push a campaign over the top, but until the university has a number of 7 or 8 figure gifts secured, the project won't even be close to becoming a reality.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The amount of things people hate using tax dollars for, but those people are ok giving it to wealthy individual/institutions for stadiums is the biggest hypocritical BS I’ve ever heard of. Sounds like the same people who want to spend 4 billion on a tunnel for I-81.

 

[Bayside44]

People keep harping on "grassroots" fundraising for the Dome, but in the grand scheme of things, that type of fundraising will be a drop in the bucket in terms of the funds needed for this project. Something like 90% of total dollars raised by non-profits comes from 10% or less of its donors. Small donations from the general public here and there will certainly help push a campaign over the top, but until the university has a number of 7 or 8 figure gifts secured, the project won't even be close to becoming a reality.

Exactly, SU isn't running some scam PAC.

 

[Townie72]

The amount of things people hate using tax dollars for, but those people are ok giving it to wealthy individual/institutions for stadiums is the biggest hypocritical BS I’ve ever heard of. Sounds like the same people who want to spend 4 billion on a tunnel for I-81.

Sounds like you have your own list of things you like to see other people's money spent on.

Regan said it best, "Tax dollars appear to belong to no one. And the urge to bestow them on someone is nearly irresistible."

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sounds like you have your own list of things you like to see other people's money spent on.

Regan said it best, "Tax dollars appear to belong to no one. And the urge to bestow them on someone is nearly irresistible."

I’m not about to get in an argument over how tax dollars are spent, but I generally despise using them to help people who are already well off. It’s the worst form of welfare that exists.

 

[kcsu]

Talk about "measuring at the extremes" to attempt to prove a point.

You aren't seriously comparing the minor miracle of L of C on the National stage in the Final 4 with SU upsetting Clemson in the regular season game?

I'll agree that huge wins or lots of wins have a very positive affect on school. But a single win or run doesn't have very long legs. Just ask George Mason or FGCU.

But the more important point is that spending a huge amount of money on a greatly upgraded Dome may not improve SU's athletic fortunes or programs to any appreciable degree. The Dome boosted SU attendance but didn't translate in to many more wins for seven years.

It's a huge gamble, in my mind.

Maryland spent a ton of money on facilities and made itself vulnerable to the almost hostile takeover by the B1G and the hoped for bigger crowds and more victories never materialized. What they have instead are acres of unsold seats and empty VIP suites.

Of course, the average fan is willing for the University to take the risk, because it ain't their money.

SU can't afford to guess wrong and end up with a White Elephant. State schools can. Just ask Rutgers. They just raise student fees and dip into the General Fund. They have State funding to help them keep the lights on.

I agree SU needs to make a solid decision. Keeping the Dome on campus was a very good call as the Dome is uniquely recognizable within college venues. Personally other than a new cap i think that improved seating, internet, and screens is enough. Nobody goes to a game for the food. Premium seating will pay for itself. As to improving the win loss column. Invest in athletic dorms and great coaches. The dorms are a huge selling point for recruits .Great coaching and staff stability is proven to increase wins. Wins increase attendance more than anything.

 

[Townie72]

I’m not about to get in an argument over how tax dollars are spent, but I generally despise using them to help people who are already well off. It’s the worst form of welfare that exists.

Oh I agree on tax gifts for the well off (even though the top 20% of Earners pay 80% of Fed Income taxes) neither sports tickets or seat licences should reduce taxes.

 

[Townie72]

I agree SU needs to make a solid decision. Keeping the Dome on campus was a very good call as the Dome is uniquely recognizable within college venues. Personally other than a new cap i think that improved seating, internet, and screens is enough. Nobody goes to a game for the food. Premium seating will pay for itself. As to improving the win loss column. Invest in athletic dorms and great coaches. The dorms are a huge selling point for recruits .Great coaching and staff stability is proven to increase wins. Wins increase attendance more than anything.

You are at the crux of the argument or whatever this is on here.

The question is "How do you get to a consistently winning program that attracts lots of fans and makes lots of money for the University"?

You say it's dorms and great coaches.

Others on here are what I would call the "facilities pull" group. They reason that great facilities, as in the "Taj Mahal of Indoor stadiums" will attract large crowds which will pull in great athletes and we will be back to The 1990's or better.

Other might say, you get good coaches and some better athletes and you slowly start to build a prOgram until you reach a tipping point and the thing takes off.

The operative point is that nobody knows what the answer is. But the price tags associated with each of these "not guaranteed to get results" alternative strategies vary greatly.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Oh I agree on tax gifts for the well off (even though the top 20% of Earners pay 80% of Fed Income taxes) neither sports tickets or seat licences should reduce taxes.

Wow we agree on something?!?

 

[Townie72]

Wow we agree on something?!?

Well, that's a starting point.

Now we can look at the hundreds of Billions of abuse in Food Stamps, Social Security Disability and Medicare programs. Unless, of course, you don't want to because it's not ideologically correct.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well, that's a starting point.

Now we can look at the hundreds of Billions of abuse in Food Stamps, Social Security Disability and Medicare programs. Unless, of course, you don't want to because it's not ideologically correct.

I think we should look at all tax dollars and where they go across the board.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I think that since its going to be expensive we should make a huge pyramid around the dome.

The slope would have to be very steep think of the Transamerica building in San Francisco.

Transamerica Pyramid - Wikipedia

We don't need anything in the pyramid of course and it would be cool to look up from the playing field and see a roof 500 some feet high.

No snow collapse worries. Would look cool. No big infrastructural changes to the Dome.

 

[Moontan]

The future of high-priced, medium quality private schools like SU is certainly not assured. They cannot afford to spend a huge amount of money on athletic facility without getting a return. They are literally betting the future of the University.

The Dome and SU’s athletic programs are also one of its best, if not the best, recruiting tools to attract future students.

 

[Moontan]

Sounds like you have your own list of things you like to see other people's money spent on.

Regan said it best, "Tax dollars appear to belong to no one. And the urge to bestow them on someone is nearly irresistible."

Calvin Coolidge beat Regan (Reagan?) to the punch when he said: “Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody.”

Actually, it sounds like Reagan’s speechwriter took some artistic liberty...

 

[Townie72]

Calvin Coolidge beat Regan (Reagan?) to the punch when he said: “Nothing is easier than spending public money. It does not appear to belong to anybody. The temptation is overwhelming to bestow it on somebody.”

Actually, it sounds like Reagan’s speechwriter took some artistic liberty...

The person I remember saying that was RR. But he may have been quoting Coolidge. Whoever said it had it right. We all know what's going on and as long as we appear to be powerless to stop it, we want our "share" of the spoils.

There's no better example of that than those on here who want NY tax dollars to subsidize the building of a sports facility for their favorite team.

 

[xc84]

The person I remember saying that was RR. But he may have been quoting Coolidge. Whoever said it had it right. We all know what's going on and as long as we appear to be powerless to stop it, we want our "share" of the spoils.

There's no better example of that than those on here who want NY tax dollars to subsidize the building of a sports facility for their favorite team.

We all have our preferences of what we think should be done with OUR tax dollars. You have the view that your preferences are correct and others are wrong.