"The Dome roof"

[Townie72]

We all have our preferences of what we think should be done with OUR tax dollars. You have the view that your preferences are correct and others are wrong.

That was not the point I was trying to make. I know we all have our preferences. We all want our fair share and many wouldn't mind getting more than their fair share.

People who want a lot of tax dollars spent on something like a sports arena for a private college never seem to piece together that this kind of spending drives up taxes for everybody.

Then the companies leave NY because of the tax burden and these people stand around scratching their heads and denounce the corporations for being greedy.

 

[xc84]

That was not the point I was trying to make. I know we all have our preferences. We all want our fair share and many wouldn't mind getting more than their fair share.

People who want a lot of tax dollars spent on something like a sports arena for a private college never seem to piece together that this kind of spending drives up taxes for everybody.

Then the companies leave NY because of the tax burden and these people stand around scratching their heads and denounce the corporations for being greedy.

Some people want their tax dollars spent on things they will actually enjoy and benefit from... like a stadium which they frequent. It's not just "for a private college". It's for tax-paying fans who actually enjoy going to games. There are also ancillary benefits to the community. Take away SU basketball and football games from the region and see how restaurants and hotels fare.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We all have our preferences of what we think should be done with OUR tax dollars. You have the view that your preferences are correct and others are wrong.

We have cities who can't afford water pipes, but it's ok to spend money on stadiums? I hate to say I agree with Townie, but I agree with Townie here. Most of the NFL plays in stadiums paid with tax dollars and people act like it's ok. These are billionaires and billion dollar institutions we are talking about here.

 

[xc84]

We have cities who can't afford water pipes, but it's ok to spend money on stadiums? I hate to say I agree with Townie, but I agree with Townie here. Most of the NFL plays in stadiums paid with tax dollars and people act like it's ok. These are billionaires and billion dollar institutions we are talking about here.

Every project is different. Each should be weighed by taxpayers on its own merit. I would not be for a stadium give-away to a billionaire but I don't lump every project into the same bucket...nor do I think water pipes are tied to stadium funding. They should all stand on their own merit. We all know what happened when Miner nixed the stadium deal from Cuomo. We didn't all of a sudden get water pipe funding.

 

[SUbear]

We all have our preferences of what we think should be done with OUR tax dollars. You have the view that your preferences are correct and others are wrong.

All discretionary tax spending is wrong, the only legitimate spending is for defense and PUBLIC infrastructure expenses.

Every project is different. Each should be weighed by taxpayers on its own merit. I would not be for a stadium give-away to a billionaire but I don't lump every project into the same bucket...nor do I think water pipes are tied to stadium funding. They should all stand on their own merit. We all know what happened when Miner nixed the stadium deal from Cuomo. We didn't all of a sudden get water pipe funding.

The point being that water pipe spending should have taken precedence over any stadium project. Critical infrastructure should come before any more discretionary stadiums, concert venues or any other pet political projects.

 

[xc84]

All discretionary tax spending is wrong, the only legitimate spending is for defense and PUBLIC infrastructure expenses.


The point being that water pipe spending should have taken precedence over any stadium project. Critical infrastructure should come before any more discretionary stadiums, concert venues or any other pet political projects.

We all have opinions about things. Some people like that we build airports, train stations ("public infrastructure") that benefits non-public corporations and some don't like that sort of thing. There is no hard and fast rule about it .

 

[Townie72]

Some people want their tax dollars spent on things they will actually enjoy and benefit from... like a stadium which they frequent. It's not just "for a private college". It's for tax-paying fans who actually enjoy going to games. There are also ancillary benefits to the community. Take away SU basketball and football games from the region and see how restaurants and hotels fare.

Here's an idea.

How about we let those who enjoy these things pay for them?

That way we wouldn't have to tax those who don't care about them and relieve them from subsidizing the enjoyment of others. Seems like a pretty simple concept to me.

How about we let hotels and restaurants fend for themselves based upon quality of service and actual non-government-inflated demand?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Then the companies leave NY because of the tax burden

The taxes are high because NY is a welfare state. And I don’t mean corporate welfare. Fix that issue and we can compete on a more level playing field with other states.

 

[xc84]

Here's an idea.

How about we let those who enjoy these things pay for them?

That way we wouldn't have to tax those who don't care about them and relieve them from subsidizing the enjoyment of others. Seems like a pretty simple concept to me.

How about we let hotels and restaurants fend for themselves based upon quality of service and actual non-government-inflated demand?

So when our roads need repair, we just poll people and those who want to use them will pay for them and then those who don't, won't pay or them or be allowed on them. And when the city decides to fix the water system, you can just poll people ...and ask each to pay or not for the benefit. Or schools, only those with kids who want their kids to go to the school or others who want to pay for schools will be taxed. Why make everyone subsidize things?

 

[Townie72]

We have cities who can't afford water pipes, but it's ok to spend money on stadiums? I hate to say I agree with Townie, but I agree with Townie here. Most of the NFL plays in stadiums paid with tax dollars and people act like it's ok. These are billionaires and billion dollar institutions we are talking about here.

Exactly, 03017. And study after study has shown that the benefits of this spending on stadiums never come even close to what is promised or projected after the project is completed.

The projected taxes derived from spending on restaurants and hotels never comes close to a payback point.

Politicians and developers and team owners depend upon the economic stupidity and naivete of the public to get this massive transfer of tax dollars to private hands accomplished.

 

[xc84]

Exactly, 03017. And study after study has shown that the benefits of this spending on stadiums never come even close to what is promised or projected after the project is completed.

The projected taxes derived from spending on restaurants and hotels never comes close to a payback point.

Politicians and developers and team owners depend upon the economic stupidity and naivete of the public to get this massive transfer of tax dollars to private hands accomplished.

All depends on the project.

 

[Townie72]

The taxes are high because NY is a welfare state. And I don’t mean corporate welfare. Fix that issue and we can compete on a more level playing field with other states.

Corporate welfare, transfer payments (Welfare), and all of it adds to the tax burden.

Workers faced with high State income taxes and high real estate taxes have to higher salaries.

It's led to the de-industrialization of NY State.

Anyone who has had ECO101 ought to be able to figure this out.

 

[Townie72]

All depends on the project.

Show me a single stadium project that has lived up to its promises.

 

[RandomGuy]

Taxes, schmaxes..

With summer sessions starting, does anyone have a guess of when there will be an announcement, or know of any scheduled BOT meetings?

 

[xc84]

Show me a single stadium project that has lived up to its promises.

Carrier Dome

 

[xc84]

Taxes, schmaxes..

With summer sessions starting, does anyone have a guess of when there will be an announcement, or know of any scheduled BOT meetings?

Chancellor said decision by "summer".

 

[Townie72]

Carrier Dome

There were never any promises. You must not be familiar with what happened. It was a political trade-off and not a lot of money. But it stunk to high heaven as a transaction.

By the way, where did this money end up? Marshall Street? The coffers of the University?

Mine is a pretty simple concept. The users and benefactors of spending on stadiums should use their own money and not the public's.

But then I have some empathy for people living in Clay or West Genny who don't care about SU basketball.

 

[xc84]

There were never any promises. You must not be familiar with what happened. It was a political trade-off and not a lot of money. But it stunk to high heaven as a transaction.

By the way, where did this money end up? Marshall Street? The coffers of the University?

Mine is a pretty simple concept. The users and benefactors of spending on stadiums should use their own money and not the public's.

But then I have some empathy for people living in Clay or West Genny who don't care about SU basketball.

I am very familiar with it. The state provided a grant for $15M (about 60% of construction costs). It turned out to be a great investment for the state and paid off well. You think it "stunk to high heaven" and I think it was not only a great investment of my tax dollars, but it has also provided me and many of my friends and fellow CNYers a very enjoyable venue to watch SU sports. I love it. It paid off very well for hotels, restaurants , bars, t-shirt shops, the mall, etc... as well as the university and me. Mine is a very simple concept.

See, this is what I am talking about. You think your money should not be spent like this. I think it should. I am not saying you are wrong. Just a difference of opinion.

 

[Townie72]

I am very familiar with it. The state provided a grant for $15M (about 60% of construction costs). It turned out to be a great investment for the state and paid off well. You think it "stunk to high heaven" and I think it was not only a great investment of my tax dollars, but it has also provided me and many of my friends and fellow CNYers a very enjoyable venue to watch SU sports. I love it. It paid off very well for hotels, restaurants , bars, t-shirt shops, the mall, etc... as well as the university and me. Mine is a very simple concept.

See, this is what I am talking about. You think your money should not be spent like this. I think it should. I am not saying you are wrong. Just a difference of opinion.

So the State took money from people (taxpayers) around the State and gave you and your friends ( and the small percentage of CNYers that go to games at the Dome) a place to watch games and added to Manny's gross sales?

No wonder you like it. I'm not so sure the couple living in Plattsburg or Islip would agree.

There is absolutely no reason this couldn't have been done with private money.

 

[Townie72]

While there is some payback from Government spending on sports arenas, the money would almost certainly be better off if spent on something else.

Economics Of Subsidizing Sports Stadiums | St. Louis Fed

 

[Chip]

So when our roads need repair, we just poll people and those who want to use them will pay for them and then those who don't, won't pay or them or be allowed on them. And when the city decides to fix the water system, you can just poll people ...and ask each to pay or not for the benefit. Or schools, only those with kids who want their kids to go to the school or others who want to pay for schools will be taxed. Why make everyone subsidize things?

Just one man's opinion, but I don't think mixing infrastructure repairs and entertainment is a very good idea when it comes to a discussion about tax dollars.

If you want to combine entertainment and big infrastructure projects that may not even be necessary, then have at it. More apples to apples.

 

[upperdeck]

You could argue a million things the gov fed/state/local might be better off not spending money on but they do. is there value in all the money we spend on parks? they are used by a small % of the population as well.

 

[Bayside44]

You could argue a million things the gov fed/state/local might be better off not spending money on but they do. is there value in all the money we spend on parks? they are used by a small % of the population as well.

Parks are a public good that are free.

Anyway fwiw I think this is all massively speculative at best. No windfall seems to be coming from the state.

 

[RandomGuy]

Chancellor said decision by "summer".

I know... My hope was with summer sessions starting, we might get something soon. No BOT calendar posted online... Anyone know of any scheduled meetings?

My fear is that they'll announce, "We've decided we need more time, but I really think we might do something." By summer should mean we get the answer within less than 60 days... Sometimes 2 years, just isn't enough...uggh

 

[upperdeck]

good will is free? state parks are free? Im just saying we pay $8 to enter green lakes for example. on top of that a budget of what ever it is on top of that the cost to create and maintain it when things go wrong. We spent 20 million to improve it this year A billion on the system over the next 10 years.

its a great and its a valuable thing.. but SU had 500-750K+ use the dome last year too which is far more than will use Green lakes any given year.. the Dome also produces more revenue in jobs that the park does. so there is value in that..

Some people use one or the other some use both. Our taxes pay for lots of things we dont use. But millions watch and see value in SU sports when they are not at the Dome. There is value there too to the community.. I dont think many people sit around watching Green lakes on TV.