"The Dome roof"

[xc84]

So the State took money from people (taxpayers) around the State and gave you and your friends ( and the small percentage of CNYers that go to games at the Dome) a place to watch games and added to Manny's gross sales?

No wonder you like it. I'm not so sure the couple living in Plattsburg or Islip would agree.

There is absolutely no reason this couldn't have been done with private money.

I am sure there was spending in Plattsburgh and Islip and Buffalo I am not thrilled about. But it ain’t just about me.

 

[xc84]

Just one man's opinion, but I don't think mixing infrastructure repairs and entertainment is a very good idea when it comes to a discussion about tax dollars.

If you want to combine entertainment and big infrastructure projects that may not even be necessary, then have at it. More apples to apples.

I didn't combine them. One person's necessity is another's useless waste of money.

 

[shandeezy7]

good will is free? state parks are free? Im just saying we pay $8 to enter green lakes for example. on top of that a budget of what ever it is on top of that the cost to create and maintain it when things go wrong. We spent 20 million to improve it this year A billion on the system over the next 10 years.

its a great and its a valuable thing.. but SU had 500-750K+ use the dome last year too which is far more than will use Green lakes any given year.. the Dome also produces more revenue in jobs that the park does. so there is value in that..

Some people use one or the other some use both. Our taxes pay for lots of things we dont use. But millions watch and see value in SU sports when they are not at the Dome. There is value there too to the community.. I dont think many people sit around watching Green lakes on TV.

Actually, to that point, Green Lakes hovers around the 1,000,000 mark in attendance every year. Not even sure if that factors in the golf course, as you technically don't have to enter the paid portion of the park to get there.

State Park Annual Attendance Figures by Facility: Beginning 2003 | Open Data NY

 

[xc84]

Actually, to that point, Green Lakes hovers around the 1,000,000 mark in attendance every year. Not even sure if that factors in the golf course, as you technically don't have to enter the paid portion of the park to get there.

State Park Annual Attendance Figures by Facility: Beginning 2003 | Open Data NY

Well, if I go 100 times a year that is counted as 100 people.

Also it is for recreation (not essential infrastructure) and a lot of people never use it at all so according to some on this board it should be disqualified from tax funding.

 

[Townie72]

Well, if I go 100 times a year that is counted as 100 people.

Also it is for recreation (not essential infrastructure) and a lot of people never use it at all so according to some on this board it should be disqualified from tax funding.

Are you suggesting that no one goes to the Dome more than once a year?

But, the point here is that parks are a well-established part of what Government provides.

Giving private Universities public money so they can build arenas that they charge admission to, isn't.

Would it be OK for the State to give Costco money so they would build a warehouse in Marathon, NY?

 

[xc84]

Are you suggesting that no one goes to the Dome more than once a year?

But, the point here is that parks are a well-established part of what Government provides.

Giving private Universities public money so they can build arenas that they charge admission to, isn't.

Would it be OK for the State to give Costco money so they would build a warehouse in Marathon, NY?

I was suggesting that 1,000,000 visitors is probably not 1,000,000 visitors. It's 1,000,000 visits, maybe by 50,000 visitors. As for the Dome, no...many go more than once per year. That's a testament to why it is such an asset to CNY.

You keep saying and ignoring the same things. Depends on how much and what the return would be. Sounds crazy, I know.

Why should a guy from Islip who will never go to Green Lakes pay taxes for it? Huh?

 

[Townie72]

I was suggesting that 1,000,000 visitors is probably not 1,000,000 visitors. It's 1,000,000 visits, maybe by 50,000 visitors. As for the Dome, no...many go more than once per year. That's a testament to why it is such an asset to CNY.

You keep saying and ignoring the same things. Depends on how much and what the return would be. Sounds crazy, I know.

Why should a guy from Islip who will never go to Green Lakes pay taxes for it? Huh?

It's different. There are parks all over the State and there is a user fee that goes right back to the Government and not to Manny's or the Sheraton Hotel.

What you are saying --- and don't want to admit or recognize -- is that you don't give a as long as you are getting your share of this Government money to fund stuff you like.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Are you suggesting that no one goes to the Dome more than once a year?

But, the point here is that parks are a well-established part of what Government provides.

Giving private Universities public money so they can build arenas that they charge admission to, isn't.

Would it be OK for the State to give Costco money so they would build a warehouse in Marathon, NY?

Naive to think that corporate welfare isn’t rampant - federal, state and local. What is implied that it’s okay for private commercial or corporate development but not private universities.

New prohibition against tax breaks for retail projects easy to get around
Costco to anchor Township 5 development in Camillus

https://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/pubs/research/ida_reports/2015/idaperformance.pdf

 

[RandomGuy]

Bahhh... Taxes schmaxes.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Naive to think that corporate welfare isn’t rampant - federal, state and local. What is implied that it’s okay for private commercial or corporate development but not private universities.

New prohibition against tax breaks for retail projects easy to get around
Costco to anchor Township 5 development in Camillus

NY would not need tax breaks, if everything wasn't over taxed. Its a way to build cronyism so that one hand can wash the other and people stay in power and pockets are lined.

 

[xc84]

It's different. There are parks all over the State and there is a user fee that goes right back to the Government and not to Manny's or the Sheraton Hotel.

What you are saying --- and don't want to admit or recognize -- is that you don't give a as long as you are getting your share of this Government money to fund stuff you like.

You are just saying the state invests $$s all over the state. Some goes to CNY, some goes to Islip. In the case of parks, it is all for the recreational benefit of people around there. . So the people in CNY are happy to have Green Lakes funded by the state and those in Islip have their own nearby park funded by the state. The state takes care of each region by investing in things the regions want. I do want my region to get things it collectively feels is a good investment and wants. In this case, that would have been the Carrier Dome...a great investment. While the state won't build a new stadium in CNY, I do think helping the renovation is possible and would be another good investment which would generate economic benefits for the region as well as benefit fans who enjoy the venue.

Parks are a bit different though in that the economic benefit from the investment is low. The real benefit is simply enjoyment and recreation. It's a net loss to the state financially but overall a great investment. On the other hand, the region benefits significantly from the dome...both economically and from a quality of life standpoint.

 

[Townie72]

Naive to think that corporate welfare isn’t rampant - federal, state and local. What is implied that it’s okay for private commercial or corporate development but not private universities.

New prohibition against tax breaks for retail projects easy to get around
Costco to anchor Township 5 development in Camillus

https://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/pubs/research/ida_reports/2015/idaperformance.pdf

Tax breaks or other incentives are not the same thing as outright gifts.

The Dome already gets a tax break, I think, because it’s owned by the University.

New York State’s problem isn’t that they don’t tax and spend enough.

 

[Townie72]

You are just saying the state invests $$s all over the state. Some goes to CNY, some goes to Islip. In the case of parks, it is all for the recreational benefit of people around there. . So the people in CNY are happy to have Green Lakes funded by the state and those in Islip have their own nearby park funded by the state. The state takes care of each region by investing in things the regions want. I do want my region to get things it collectively feels is a good investment and wants. In this case, that would have been the Carrier Dome...a great investment. While the state won't build a new stadium in CNY, I do think helping the renovation is possible and would be another good investment which would generate economic benefits for the region as well as benefit fans who enjoy the venue.

Parks are a bit different though in that the economic benefit from the investment is low. The real benefit is simply enjoyment and recreation. It's a net loss to the state financially but overall a great investment. On the other hand, the region benefits significantly from the dome...both economically and from a quality of life standpoint.

The money would be better spent elsewhere.

But then you and your buddies wouldn’t be able to slurp beer while watching games in a facility paid for by the taxpayers but owned by a private university.

When you want something bad enough, you’ll justify it any way you can come up with. Including making some tenuous comparisons to State Parks.

 

[kcsu]

Or wolfing down deep fried turkey legs at the state fair

 

[Scooch]

It’s possible to make a point about government spending without essentially suggesting someone is a parasite. If political talk is going to continue to be prevalent on this board it’d be nice if some folks could not be jerks.

And this from someone who tends to agree that government should not fund stadiums.

 

[RandomGuy]

It’s possible to make a point about government spending without essentially suggesting someone is a parasite. If political talk is going to continue to be prevalent on this board it’d be nice if some folks could not be jerks.

And this from someone who tends to agree that government should not fund stadiums.

Thanks scooch... I was trying to deflect the very real political/taxation topics to the super secret off topic forum... It's a can of worms that'll never end. It's a part, so I get it, but it's never productive... but a very interesting pursuit..

Love to see this get back on the dome...

 

[sutomcat]

Good story of how the Dome came to be originally...

Deja vu: Four decades ago, Syracuse community fought over plans to build an SU stadium

 

[FrancoPizza]

And this from someone who tends to agree that government should not fund stadiums.

I think you'll find that most people philosophically agree on that point. The problem is we can't look at this in a vacuum. If other cities and universities receive funding streams from the government then we have to be willing to play ball or drop the sport at SU.

 

[kcsu]

Put a new lid, seat backs, add some luxury boxes ,great screens and audio,increase staff compensation ,get a new sponsor ,build some hot athletic dorms ,continue the new scheduling focus, turn on the ACC network ,have Nike poney up, add 10 more Tubas to the band and call it a day.

 

[Scooch]

I think you'll find that most people philosophically agree on that point. The problem is we can't look at this in a vacuum. If other cities and universities receive funding streams from the government then we have to be willing to play ball or drop the sport at SU.

Totally get it. And I do think one can argue that there is a difference between fully funding a stadium for a wealthy professional team owner, and partially funding a stadium for a university, even a private one. The latter is never a "good investment" strictly in terms of return dollars, but there can be other benefits that accrue to a community that should be factored in.

My point was just that dismissive name calling doesn't help advance discussion. Of course that extends beyond SyracuseFan.com.

 

[reedny]

Totally get it. And I do think one can argue that there is a difference between fully funding a stadium for a wealthy professional team owner, and partially funding a stadium for a university, even a private one. The latter is never a "good investment" strictly in terms of return dollars, but there can be other benefits that accrue to a community that should be factored in.

My point was just that dismissive name calling doesn't help advance discussion. Of course that extends beyond SyracuseFan.com.

I don't agree with any of that except the last part. Name calling doesn't do anyone any good. It degrades the forum. Reasonable people have different opinions on the subject of public funding. IMO it's appropriate ... at least in the case of some stadiums offering substantial public benefits. That is true of the Bills stadium. It's also true of SU -- doesn't matter if it's a private U. It has a huge regional economic impact. As Franko pointed out, NY has funded many such projects ... both for public good (Tapenzee bridge for 1B) and private concerns like sports stadiums - where the economic impact justifies it. I don't particularly like the way the Governor pretends to be Santa Clauz every year with funding projects. But the competition-style of the process does get the public interested and bring out many worthwhile projects. There are many (private) corporations that are supported with public tax money that never deliver the promised jobs or impact. I think SU and the Bills are certainly not in that category. SU has 5,000 employees and a $300M payroll, with an annual economic impact over a billion. What does Syracuse University do for Central New York's economy?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Put a new lid, seat backs, add some luxury boxes ,great screens and audio,increase staff compensation ,get a new sponsor ,build some hot athletic dorms ,continue the new scheduling focus, turn on the ACC network ,have Nike poney up, add 10 more Tubas to the band and call it a day.

Most STHs who live in the upper deck will tell you that seat backs would be a bad idea. The need for wider concourses is at the top of many lists. The game experience is not limited to where we sit and watch. The concourses are a prime spot for social interaction, not to mention all the beer and nacho runs and potty breaks. Whenever there's an "event" game at the Dome, the concourses are basically off-limits and quite frankly a dangerous fire code disaster waiting to happen.

 

[reedny]

Actually, to that point, Green Lakes hovers around the 1,000,000 mark in attendance every year. Not even sure if that factors in the golf course, as you technically don't have to enter the paid portion of the park to get there.

State Park Annual Attendance Figures by Facility: Beginning 2003 | Open Data NY

A direct "economic impact" is difficult to measure with parks/open spaces. But it's no mystery that many upstate suburban communities in NY with high tax bases also have robust open space programs. It's a quality of life issue that supports property values.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Most STHs who live in the upper deck will tell you that seat backs would be a bad idea. The need for wider concourses is at the top of many lists. The game experience is not limited to where we sit and watch. The concourses are a prime spot for social interaction, not to mention all the beer and nacho runs and potty breaks.

I think we need an upper concourse. I think that we have to build a 'Dome around the Dome.'

So just have massive steel/concrete supports 10 feet outside of it where the footprint currently is to support it and start the roof/extension 100 or so feet in the air I would build a walkway just beneath where the roof of the Dome currently is that is out to where the new roof starts. Put the new structure 10 feet out on the Archbold/ESF/Geology building side but on the I-80 side maybe make it larger so we can increase basketball seating.

We don't need all our football capacity remove the last few rows on the football sidelines/corners. Get a top notch pressbox on one football sideline and a huge party deck on the other. And try and add seating above where the 311 seats end for basketball.

This is the chance to make our stadium way cooler than every other team college/pro. I want a huge spire/pyramid for the roof. If it looks cool enough someone will pay to name it.

 

[Arangeman]

Prepare to be very disappointed