The Greatest Baseball Player

[UnknownOrange]

Gehrig?? He wasn't a WWll vet.

Williams lost a lot of prime years...WWll and Korea.

Tony Gwynn was a fine hitter, but Ted Williams was the best.

Oops... misread lol I 100% meant TW

 

[jekelish]

I'm going with Willie Mays. I will say this, though: I think if he'd managed to stay healthy through the course of his career, we'd be very seriously considering Ken Griffey Jr. in this conversation.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm going with Willie Mays. I will say this, though: I think if he'd managed to stay healthy through the course of his career, we'd be very seriously considering Ken Griffey Jr. in this conversation.

Griffey was really never there as a hitter. Mays had 6 years better than Griffey's best year at the plate, and 3 others that were within spitting distance. Mantle had 8 years better than Griffey's best year at the plate. Just to try and keep it to CF. Obviously he was a great player but not really on the level of the best of the best.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I think if he'd managed to stay healthy through the course of his career, we'd be very seriously considering Ken Griffey Jr. in this conversation.

I would take A-Rod over Griffey.

 

[moqui]

Are you thinking maybe of Ted Williams? Gehrig was dead before we entered the war.

he was part of the elite Zombie Brigade that captured Hitler & spirited him away to Paraguay, where he still runs the secret world government

 

[Crusty]

It's Ruth by a mile for me. When he became a full-time outfielder, his offensive numbers relative to his contemporaries dwarfed anything that had been seen before (or since). Add in the fact that he likely was on Hall of Fame career path as a pitcher, and he clearly remains the greatest ballplayer we have seen, IMO.

Ruth was great but for all around player I wonder how many stolen bases he had.

 

[Knicks411]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ruthba01.shtml

 

[Briancuse]

Its so hard, because I never got the chance to see a lot of the great play, but I would say Babe Ruth, based on what he did as a pitcher, and then as an everyday player.

 

[Cowtown]

"I can't believe that Babe Ruth was a better player than Willie Mays. (Babe) Ruth is to baseball what Arnold Palmer is to golf. He got the game moving. But I can't believe he could run as well as (Willie) Mays, and I can't believe he was any better an outfielder."

~Sandy Koufax

For the record, against Koufax Mays was .278 on 27 hits in 97 at bats with 5 home runs and 20 strikeouts.

It should also be pointed out that Ruth spent most of his career playing the smaller RF of Yankee Stadium. He didn't have to be a very capable outfielder because anything over his head was gone. Mays, on the other hand, routinely ran down fly balls in all the center fields of the NL, especially in the 483 feet of CF in the Polo Grounds. Ask Vic Wertz what he thinks about it ...

 

[SUintheVille]

I agree Willy Mays was a phenomenal player. Also agree on Ted Williams and Tony Gwynn as phenomenal hitters. Gotta throw in Stan Musial and Rod Carew in there too for great hitters.

What do you all think of Rose as a hitter? 10 seasons with > 200 hits, 2 more with 198 - not too shabby. I like the guys above more though.

 

[Toga]

I agree Willy Mays was a phenomenal player. Also agree on Ted Williams and Tony Gwynn as phenomenal hitters. Gotta throw in Stan Musial and Rod Carew in there too for great hitters.

What do you all think of Rose as a hitter? 10 seasons with > 200 hits, 2 more with 198 - not too shabby. I like the guys above more though.

Speaking strictly on a personal level - Rose is an a-hole.

 

[SU94]

This player was not THE best player, but he is severely underrated.
I think I'd have him as a top 5 offensive player ...

Rickey Henderson.

3000 hits, all those SB, was a good defender early in his career ... but what set him apart were 2 things. His ability to get on base and to score runs (most ever). And at the end of the day, isn't that really what the game is all about offensively?

 

[upperdeck]

you cant compare bonds to mays on defense

stolen bases were not a big deal in may's time.. he ran when he needed and that was it.. easily could have stolen twice as many.

bonds hit more home runs but if you add in the 2 years mays lost to the military he gets that total pretty close in a different era.

mantle is an interesting argument, but the yankee hype machine makes it hard to read how good he was.. when i talked with the old timers who saw them both in their prime they didnt think it was close more athlete than talent

a couple things that also cant be overlooked for players back in the 40-50's. shorter seasons/more double headers.. so over a career 1+ seasons less of games, smaller leagues so teams knew each other better to attack your weaknesses

 

[obliterata]

I agree Willy Mays was a phenomenal player. Also agree on Ted Williams and Tony Gwynn as phenomenal hitters. Gotta throw in Stan Musial and Rod Carew in there too for great hitters.

What do you all think of Rose as a hitter? 10 seasons with > 200 hits, 2 more with 198 - not too shabby. I like the guys above more though.

Rose was one of the greatest hitters of all-time. He had a lot more at bats than most great players which was the main reason he had the most hits in baseball history. You've got to give him credit for playing - with ability - for as long as he did. If he hit over 400 home runs he'd be in the discussion but he's only 446th on that list (160).

 

[obliterata]

To ever live.

I want to hear a name and a reason (or many reasons) why you're attaching their name to yours.

For the fun of it let's leave out anything that ties them to cheating, addictions, off the field incidents, all of that. Who they were on the diamond and only who they were on the diamond.

Why do I use that as a qualification? Because of my pick.


It's Barry Bonds.



I would LOVE to know why you pick someone other than him. Yes I know who he was as a person and the allegations tied to him but he is the reason I fell in love with baseball statistics. I was a huge fan of baseball and then Barry sent me over the top.

My favorite statistic for Barry?

From 2001-2004, Barry Bonds played in 573 games and reached base in 539 of them. 94% of his games


WHO YA GOT?!

As I mentioned earlier, it's Willie Mays for me. He did everything well, no weaknesses in his game. He's at least in the top 200 of every statistical list if not the top 100, 50, 2o, 10, or 5.

The only other player in consideration for the title of "Greatest Baseball Player" is Babe Ruth in my opinion, he and Mays are clearly above everyone else. Ruth generally has a little bit better stats than Mays but Mays could do more things well and I think played in a tougher era to excel.

Barry Bonds is a great player but he's not in the top 200 in batting average, singles, and triples. How the heck can Babe Ruth have 59 more triples than Bonds (136 to 77). Mickey Mantle had three bad knees for 7 years and managed to run from home to third 72 times.

And I could never consider a player hitting in the .200s the greatest baseball player to ever live, gotta hit at least .300 to get mentioned in the same breath as those who do.

 

[cuseattle]

I guess I will go with the Babe, even with the OP'S original stipulations.
Transcendent. Mays was amazing, but Ruth by a whisper.
Edit - Rickey is my lead off hitter of all time.

 

[Knicks411]

Couple of things on Bonds.

1) The guy drew a ton of walks; in roughly the same # of PA as Mays, he drew 1,000 more walks. So it's harder to add to some of the hit totals with all of the walks he was drawing.
2) On the triples; the parks in Ruth's area were much larger, so he may have lost a few HR (though he probably got a ton back in RF at Yankee Stadium), but most of his triples were just because he hit the ball too far. I don't think there's any doubt Bonds had more speed than Ruth.
3) The Ba thing; Bonds hit 298 for his career, Mays hit 302. We really care about that difference? This is probably a good time to revisit point 1, and also point out Bonds had an OBP 60 points higher than Mays.

I think if you take what Bonds did over the course of his career at face value, you almost have to make him the best player of all time. The 2001-2004 numbers are pretty much out of this world.

Mays was probably the most well rounded great player of all time? I would say a young Barry Bonds was up there, but he was a very good LF and Mays was an all time glove in CF, so that's not really the same.

But just some perspective on the hitting, using OPS+, Mays had a career 156 OPS+. Bonds beat or matched that total the last 18 years of his career. Mays single season high was 185, Bonds career total was 182. As hitters, as great as Mays was, he's not really in the discussion with Bonds.

 

[UnknownOrange]

As I mentioned earlier, it's Willie Mays for me. He did everything well, no weaknesses in his game. He's at least in the top 200 of every statistical list if not the top 100, 50, 2o, 10, or 5.

The only other player in consideration for the title of "Greatest Baseball Player" is Babe Ruth in my opinion, he and Mays are clearly above everyone else. Ruth generally has a little bit better stats than Mays but Mays could do more things well and I think played in a tougher era to excel.

Barry Bonds is a great player but he's not in the top 200 in batting average, singles, and triples. How the heck can Babe Ruth have 59 more triples than Bonds (136 to 77). Mickey Mantle had three bad knees for 7 years and managed to run from home to third 72 times.

And I could never consider a player hitting in the .200s the greatest baseball player to ever live, gotta hit at least .300 to get mentioned in the same breath as those who do.

I hear what you're saying but BB having all the walks, let alone the IBB's you take away all of those possible plate appearances. If they in their primes were in the same lineup you're walking Barry to pitch to Willie

 

[Toga]

I hear what you're saying but BB having all the walks, let alone the IBB's you take away all of those possible plate appearances. If they in their primes were in the same lineup you're walking Barry to pitch to Willie

And if they were in the same lineup and it was Mays who was juicing and Bonds who wasn't? Mays would be walked 4 times a game to pitch to Barry.

 

[UnknownOrange]

And if they were in the same lineup and it was Mays who was juicing and Bonds who wasn't? Mays would be walked 4 times a game to pitch to Barry.

Possibly but that's tough to figure out. You have a guy in Barry who prior to 2001 had won 3 MVPs and was on a course for a hall of fame career. No disrespec to Willie Mays at all. He is one of my favorite baseball players of all time but I respectfully would place bonds higher on the ladder. He invented the 400/400 club and the 500/500 club and was a very good defender up until age caught up

 

[Knicks411]

I mean Bonds in 92 and 93 was a better hitter than Mays ever was, and it wasn't really close.

 

[br801]

Say Hey. A less injured and less partying Mantle would have given Willie a run for his money.

He gave him a pretty good run for his money anyway. And Mantle was never fully healthy, even before stepping on that sprinkler head in the World Series as a rookie. In retrospect, what he accomplished statistically was astounding.

 

[Toga]

He gave him a pretty good run for his money anyway. And Mantle was never fully healthy, even before stepping on that sprinkler head in the World Series as a rookie. In retrospect, what he accomplished statistically was astounding.

Agree. Mantle's potential was kind of off the charts if you consider just this anecdotal stuff - Power ... was at least at one point considered to have hit the longest home run in history. Speed ... at one point was considered the fastest player ever from home to first (when hitting from the left side).

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah I can't even imagine what a healthy Mantle could have accomplished. And if he didn't ever drink...

 

[OttoMets]

Roger Cedeno.