I think this staff is great at evaluating HS talent - great at it. If they're accepting commits in April and May, then I'm going to assume these kids are going to be valuable contributors to the program and I'm excited - I don't care who else has offered / has not offered at this stage.
Some of the doom and gloom people that post here, sometimes I wonder if they are just trolling. Especially doing it after a flurry of activity.
STOP COUNTING STARS ON RECRUITING SITES AND WATCH THE TAPE.Or lack there of. You know it’s just a shame that we have absolutely no players in terms of division one quality in our backyard and we have to go compete with every single other team in whatever state that were in and you know we have some of the things that teams use against us like weather and whatever else they are using but weather is pretty much the main thing that is a big problem for us but at the same time I thought we would do better! like why do we start out so slow every single year? that is the biggest beef with me right now. It seems like every single year we start out with guys that you know we’re beating our mid major teams and we should be better than that
To get high level commits to come to snowy Syracuse we are gonna need 3 or 4 bowl appearances in a row. Weve been a 5 win program for almost 20 years. We have to go to other people’s states and convince kids with multiple P5 offers to come to SU because we don’t have enough of them in NYS. That is very hard to do.It's tough, I'm going to trust the staff with these pickups, but the posters that usually have the take that our staff finds the diamonds in the rough or can evaluate better than other programs were also happy about our previous coaches classes as well.
I think we can all be honest, after the Clemson win, the viral moments in the locker room, I thought we were going to start getting some sprinkles of high caliber/profile players. It didn't happen, and it is disappointing no matter how you look at it.
I'm not saying coach hasn't brought in talent, because he has. He overhauled the team in many ways, but as fans we always want more. We shall see how the upcoming year goes, if it is another losing season, then there are clearly some problems with coaching or talent evaluations. I want coach to be here a long time so I hope he can turn it around!
Good points.I think this staff does a very good job of identifying talent. And I think that the 5-7 season severely hurt us as far as recruiting blue chip level talent. You could see us starting to turn the corner with flipping Nunn from Miami, and landing 4 stars Jones and Kpogba later in 2018 as part of the 2019 class in the midst of a 10 win season. That momentum was real, and it took a massive thud when we effectively crapped the bed in 2019.
I think if we see a turnaround this season and get back to an 8-10 win program we’ll see similar momentum with higher profile recruits in the late fall. If not, well, get used to guys we identify early that we later have to fight off late suitors for and diamonds in the rough.
STOP WATCHING THE TAPE AND LOOK AT THEIR OFFERS.STOP COUNTING STARS ON RECRUITING SITES AND WATCH THE TAPE.
So sick of these complaints. Meanwhile, I'm sure you're one of the first people that when a kid we offered early blows up and goes elsewhere and crows "the staff can't close"...
STOP WATCHING THE TAPE AND LOOK AT THEIR OFFERS.
So sick of these complaints. We're not the professional judges of talent, college teams are and assume they are watching what we're watching and not offering. Recruiting is beating others for talent not assuming everyone else is stupid or derelict and only we can pick 25 diamonds in the rough every year for decades and hope to consistently win. 3-4 yes. But not 25 for years. You can't only watch tape of our players in a bubble, you have to compare to the talent others are getting because Football is a competitive sport. Recruiting is a talent comparison not done in a vacuum.
But its okay to watch film and determine who you like. You don't have to be a professional. A lot of those guys on those sites didnt play football. They just mastered the ability to watch film and get players measureables and 40 times off some document. Don't get me wrong offers from P5 schools is a important piece to determining the value but there's a lot of factors that goes into the process too. If we gonna compare commits to others than lets compare ourselves to other inconsistent programs like Wake and BC. Lets compare ourselves to other teams that don't have fertile recruiting grounds and have been inconsistent for 20 years. We are at the point where we have to be creative. We have to find kids early, grab camp kids and hidden gems. After that we have to develop them and get them to compete. Kids that can give you chance to beat teams with more talent. BC was able to do that in the mid 2000's. All in all, you can't ignore the value of developing players. Culture and game day coaching plays a big part too. That's how teams with less talent win.STOP WATCHING THE TAPE AND LOOK AT THEIR OFFERS.
So sick of these complaints. We're not the professional judges of talent, college teams are and assume they are watching what we're watching and not offering. Recruiting is beating others for talent not assuming everyone else is stupid or derelict and only we can pick 25 diamonds in the rough every year for decades and hope to consistently win. 3-4 yes. But not 25 for years. You can't only watch tape of our players in a bubble, you have to compare to the talent others are getting because Football is a competitive sport. Recruiting is a talent comparison not done in a vacuum.
Every year we convince ourselves we found the great players no one else knows about and still have one of the worst record in D1 football over that period. (except one year). What's that saying about insanity?Or maybe -- call me crazy -- DO BOTH, and consider multiple factors. Outside of an elite, small group of blue chippers, football recruiting ratings are imprecise as hell, because there are thousands of recruits each year, nationwide. And some get far less exposure than others.
If we were recruiting in the same stratosphere as Ohio State or Clemson, then stars alone would be a good barometer, because we'd be selecting from an already pre-identified and evaluated group of known commodities. Since that's not our lane, fans need to dig a bit deeper. Which is why for our program...
Stars don't tell the entire story.
Neither do offers.
And neither does film.
That's why it is completely asinine to only focus on one form of evaluation, and pretend that the others don't exist.
It is also important to mention that the coaching staff has their own, extremely detailed, through, and well researched recruiting board -- with prioritized rankings that they come up with internally. Said recruiting board isn't based upon Rivals or Skwout ratings. So when we land a guy like Nelson or Hough that we prioritized extremely high on the list, that says a lot more than their current ratings.
Hough is a two-star currently, for example. People who are wringing their hands about him "only" being a two-star, and evidence that we aren't recruiting well, are completely off target.
You are right on. Thanks for sharing.Or maybe -- call me crazy -- DO BOTH, and consider multiple factors. Outside of an elite, small group of blue chippers, football recruiting ratings are imprecise as hell, because there are thousands of recruits each year, nationwide. And some get far less exposure than others.
If we were recruiting in the same stratosphere as Ohio State or Clemson, then stars alone would be a good barometer, because we'd be selecting from an already pre-identified and evaluated group of known commodities. Since that's not our lane, fans need to dig a bit deeper. Which is why for our program...
Stars don't tell the entire story.
Neither do offers.
And neither does film.
That's why it is completely asinine to only focus on one form of evaluation, and pretend that the others don't exist.
It is also important to mention that the coaching staff has their own, extremely detailed, through, and well researched recruiting board -- with prioritized rankings that they come up with internally. Said recruiting board isn't based upon Rivals or Skwout ratings. So when we land a guy like Nelson or Hough that we prioritized extremely high on the list, that says a lot more than their current ratings.
Hough is a two-star currently, for example. People who are wringing their hands about him "only" being a two-star, and evidence that we aren't recruiting well, are completely off target.
Who’s “we?”Every year we convince ourselves we found the great players no one else knows about and still have one of the worst record in D1 football over that period. (except one year). What's that saying about insanity?
Every year we convince ourselves we found the great players no one else knows about and still have one of the worst record in D1 football over that period. (except one year). What's that saying about insanity?
Yup, can't get enamored by offers. Often times the players we get with great offers don't pan out. Guys like Funderburk Fagan Pickard Denzel Ward Enoicy and Lavar Lobdell. Qadir White still has time but people thought he would be a starter by year 2.Is it rankings or offers? I see many of our kids over the past few years have had a bunch of good offers but they themselves are not ranked very high.
Conversely, a school like Miami is consistently ranked in the top 20 for recruits but it clearly doesn't translate and that has spanned 4 different staffs - so maybe the rankings for them are just wrongly inflated??
Regarding W/L records does it solely matter what the recruiting rankings are or do things like being down to the 4th string walkon QB come into play at all?
Is it rankings or offers? I see many of our kids over the past few years have had a bunch of good offers but they themselves are not ranked very high.
Conversely, a school like Miami is consistently ranked in the top 20 for recruits but it clearly doesn't translate and that has spanned 4 different staffs - so maybe the rankings for them are just wrongly inflated??
Regarding W/L records does it solely matter what the recruiting rankings are or do things like being down to the 4th string walkon QB come into play at all?
According to ESPN Miami has had no 5 star recruits since 2015 and have only had one losing season (last year going 6-7) in that time frame and are right on par with where their recruiting classes land so I think they are a bad example. Other than 2018 we would have killed for their results. In the meantime they have had three or four head coaches depending on how you classify 2015. Other than 2017&18 they didn't even finish in the 247 composite top 20 team rankings.
Honestly every year on this board I hear about diamonds in the rough ... the under-recruited or the can't miss stud we finally land (cough Fagan cough ...). The reality is offers only matter if it is from a Bama, OSU, LSU or a Clemson type of program then you have my attention. Don't get me wrong this is not a knock on Dino, honestly I think he is great for the program and I hope he takes us back to periodic visits in the top 25. My biggest issue with Dino was his lack of desire to change his assistants and he blew me away with the moves he made. I am sold and he is the guy for the long haul, I firmly believe Wildhack's commitment was what he needed.
I do think it is hard at times to get players to come to the hill but when the right ones come it is truly a special place to be. The scheme change is the best thing that could have happened on D and will bear fruit specifically in 2021/2022 after players adjust. We are a Dungey like performance from having another breakout season and while we may need pieces in a few spots, we are far closer to making noise consistently than we have been since 2001. I think Devito with the help of the hog-mollys can have a good year this next season, other than Clemson I don't see what I would call a definite loss. Am I saying 11-1? No but a few things fall our way and a 9 win season isn't out of the realm of possibilities. My two pennies anyway ...
Either your info is wrong or your perception is wrong.
miami rankings rvls 2020 - 2006
12
35
6
11
23
26
12
20
9
36
16
15
5
19 - (2007) Randy Shannon
14 (2006) Coker’s last season
Since Shannon average ranking = 17.57
record since Randy Shannon’s first year 96-70 (13 seasons)
Average record 7.38 wins and 5.38 losses
3 losing seasons (2019, 2014, 2007) during that time, but I agree we would have killed for the 5 seasons they went 7-6, 6-6 and 7-5. 1 ten win season same as us. All that with an average recruit ranking of 17.57
and by the way rvls has only like 33 5-star kids every year. Miami had 2 in 2018 and I only looked at the last three years. (5 stars don’t really determine much of anything anyhow there’s so few of them.)
I used the 247 composite rankings which honestly further reinforces my opinion that outside the top 10 classes its a crap shoot and conjecture.
2021 |
Hayden Nelson |
Indiana, Iowa St. |
Josh Hough |
Kentucky, Pitt |
Terry Lockett |
Michigan |
Malcolm Folk |
Northwestern |
2020 |
Latarie Kinsler - DE |
Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, L Louisville, Miami FL, Missouri, Nebraska, Oregon, Penn St., Pitt, Purdue, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas A&M, USC, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia |
Ja'Vontae Williams - WR |
Illinois, Indiana, Miami FL, Oregon |
Stefon Thompson - LB |
Wisconsin |
Damien Alford - WR |
Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Indiana, Kentucky, Miami FL, NC State, Oklahoma, Penn State, Rutgers, Tennessee, Washington St., West Virginia, Virginia |
Robert Hanna - S |
BC, Louisville, Miami, Maryland, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Wake Forest, Washington St. |
Jahad Carter - DB |
Michigan, North Carolina, NC St., South Carolina, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech |
Steven Mahar - TE |
BC, Indiana, Iowa St., Pitt, Rutgers |
Justin Barron - ATH |
BC, Pitt, Rutgers, Virgina |
Leon Lowery - DE |
Indiana, Rutgers, Virginia Tech |
Sean Tucker - RB |
Rutgers, Wisconsin |
Garth Barclay - OT |
Virginia |
Josh LLaoa - OL/DL |
Illinois |
Marlow Wax - RB |
Pittsburgh |
Kevin Lemieux - DE |
Rutgers |
2019 |
Mikel Jones - LB *** O/D ALL AMERICAN*** |
Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Iowa St, Kentucky, L Louisville, NC State, Ole Miss, Oregon, Purdue, Utah, WVU |
Lee Kpogba - LB (Decommit from WVU) |
Duke, Florida State, Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, Tennessee, Virginia, WVU |
Jawhar Jordan - RB |
Arizona, Iowa St, Kansas, Louisville, Missouri, Oklahoma St, Rutgers, Texas |
Andrew Tuazama - DE (Prep) |
Florida St., Maryland, Miami (FL), Mississippi, Purdue, Rutgers, Tennessee |
Courtney Jackson- WR |
Baylor, BC, Kentucky, Northwestern, West Virginia |
Adrian Cole - CB |
Kansas, Kansas St, Maryland, Pitt, Rutgers |
Cooper Dawson - DL |
Clemson, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Virginia, UCLA |
Cornelius Nunn - S *** O/D ALL AMERICAN*** (Decommit from Miami) |
Alabama, Auburn, BC, Baylor, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Miami, Nebraska, NC St, Oklahoma, Pitt, Tenn |
Jason Munoz - DL (Decommit from Miami) |
Boston College, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland, Miami, Missouri, Pitt |
Aman Greenwood - S/CB |
Boston College, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, Pitt, Rutgers |
Steve Linton - DE |
Baylor, Arizona St., Louisville, Missouri, Rutgers |
Darius Tisdale - OT (JUCO) |
Arkansas, Pitt, Rutgers, WVU |
Garrison Johnson - RB |
Indiana, Nebraska, Virginia |
David Summers - QB (Decommit from Maryland) |
Syracuse, Maryland, Pittsburgh |
Garrett Williams - CB |
Syracuse, Maryland, West Virginia |
2018 |
Cameron Jonas - S |
Arkansas, Auburn, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Miami, Mississippi, North Carolina, NC St., Pitt, UCLA, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin |
Juan Wallace - MLB |
Duke, Georgia, Iowa St, Kentucky, Maryland, Rutgers, West Virginia, Wisconsin |
Chance Amie - QB |
Iowa State, North Carolina, Rutgers, Virginia |
Lakiem Williams - OLB (JUCO) |
California, Kansas |
Gabe Horan - TE |
Boston College |
Duwayne Johnson - JUCO DB |
Arizona, Arkansas, Auburn, Clemson, Colorado, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Indiana, Iowa St., Maryland, Miami, Michigan, Michigan St., Missouri, North Carolina, NC St., Purdue, Rutgers, Texas Tech, USC, Virginia Tech, Washington, Washington St. |
Edward Hendrix - WR |
Arkansas, BC, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa St., Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan St., Missouri, North Carolina, NC St., Pitt, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Wisconsin |
Qadir White - OT |
Auburn, BC, Georgia, Iowa State, Maryland, Miami, Minnesota, Mississippi, NC St., Penn St., Pitt, Rutgers, UCLA |
Carlos Vettorello - OG |
BC, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa St, Kentucky, Minnesota, Oregon St, Pittsburgh, Purdue, Vanderbilt |
Taj Harris - WR |
Maryland, NC St. Rutgers, Wake Forest |
Anthony Queeley - WR |
Duke, Minnesota, Rutgers, Wake Forest |
Caleb Okechukwu - DE *** UNDER ARMOUR AA*** |
Arizona, Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas |
Andre Cisco - DB |
Illinois, Nebraska, Northwestern, Vanderbilt |
Atrilleon Williams - ATH |
Boston College, Pitt, Rutgers |
Jarveon Howard - RB |
Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Tennessee |
Akeem Dixon - RB |
Louisville, Purdue |
Tre Allison - OLB (Decommit from SMU) |
Mississippi State |
2017 |
Ravian Pierce - TE (JUCO) - *** HM NJCAA ALL AMERICAN *** |
Florida, L Minnesota, Miss St., Missouri, Oklahoma St, Oregon, Pittsburgh, South Carolina, Tennessee, Wisconsin |
Nadarius Fagan - LB |
Kingsley Jonathan - DE |
Duke, Florida State, Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, NC State, Pitt, Rutgers, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest |
Alton Robinson - DE - (JUCO) |
Alabama, Baylor, California, Michigan, Oklahoma St., Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech |
Tommy Devito - QB - ***UA ALL AMERICAN*** |
Boston College, Maryland, Mississippi, Rutgers, Texas A&M, Wake Forest, Wash. St. |
Aaron Hackett - TE |
Iowa St., Kentucky, Louisville, Minnesota, Wake Forest |
Curtis Harper - DT |
Boston College, Iowa St., Maryland, Wake Forest |
Sharod Johnson - WR |
Illinois, NC St., Purdue |
Kadeem Trotter - LB |
Boston College, Iowa St. |
Eric Coley - ATH |
Boston College, Rutgers |
Zach Morton - DE |
Iowa St., Pitt |
Cameron Jordan - WR |
Boston College, Wake Forest |
Ifefatu Melifonwu - DB |
Boston College, Michigan |
Allen Stritzinger - RB |
Michigan |
Nykeim Johnson - WR |
Virginia |
Russell Thompson-Bishop - WR |
Boston College |
Brandon Berry - DE (JUCO) |
Minnesota |