The Logical Fallacy Some Fans Have Embraced To Justify Their Criticism Of Boeheim

[dasher]

How soon we (pretend to) forget.

This was only a year ago, folks. Cole Anthony was back, they were gonna go on a roll like Georgia back in the day... I refuse to believe you don’t remember this.

Come on. They were horrible.

 

[Day2]

That’s just the story we all told ourselves to make that last game feel even better as we faced the abyss.

Someone’s telling stories all right...

 

[SuFTW]

...
FINALLY, I saw JB yelling at Joe for a poor shot selection, and for turnovers attributable to not protecting the ball, in our last game against WVU. Where was that guy before?

JB has been doing that for a while now.

 

[malpearl31]

Yes, I will agree that Kadary did get minutes in some of those games, mostly because Buddy was out w COVID. However, you are limiting your perspective. In some of those tough outings for Joe, he should have had still been sat. I will not get into the issue of why we only have three serviceable "pure" guards on the roster. Alan could certainly have played some backcourt minutes with either Bras, Newton (who started the season strong), or one of the centers getting more frontcourt time. Actually, Newton in particular looked good in a couple of early outings. So the bottom line is that I buy that you have successfully kicked the can down the road, but not that one of the youngsters should not have gotten some run when starters are not playing well.

I'm glad that you'll agree "that Kadary did get minutes in some of those games", because the fact is - he got minutes in all of those games. Kadary averaged 23.6 minutes per game in the 5 specific games you picked to back up your earlier claim that 'Buddy and/or Joe had multiple 3 for 14 outings while Kadary sat'.

If you want to argue a different point - that Alan maybe should have played more at the 2-guard spot, or that Braswell and Newton maybe should have gotten more minutes in games where the starters struggled - that's fine. I would probably even agree with you on both of those.

But the narrative that Kadary sat on the bench in multiple games when Buddy and/or Joe had terrible games is false. That's the claim that I pushed back on, because it's simply not true - which you went on to prove yourself in your previous response.

 

[SuFTW]

Most years? Like that 5 and 5 end to last year? Cripes

Last year was one year right? Doesn’t disprove or prove “most years”.

 

[Day2]

UNC was everyone's darling to win the ACC? Didn't they have a losing record?

The tournament, yes.

 

[CuyahogaCuse]

If I may, you don't seem to appreciate how college basketball has changed, and is still changing today.

With major programs not able to stockpile the best available talent for 4 years cuz 1-2 & done, every season is a major development challenge. How do you get a group of several players to perform well enough together by the end of the season so that they'll have a chance to get to the Sweet 16?

This happens to be one of JB greatest strengths, born out by his post-season over the past several years in spite of the fact that he's been relying on Second Tier Talent.

My suggestion to his detractors: recognize and appreciate this exceptional coaching talent he displays every year and try to resist the urge to direct mocking derision at him. Just an idea...

Seriously? If you may?

There’s no need to insult my intelligence. I thought my post was very even-keeled. We have consistently underperformed our historical regular season expectations for an extended period. And yet we have multiple Sweet 16s and Final Fours to counteract those regular seasons. I fully understand how basketball works. And it doesn’t take a rocketship scientist to make such observations.

You’re the one who started a divisive thread during what should be the most exciting and anticipated week of the season.

Congratulations. I hope you’re enjoying your well-earned internet attention.

Mocking derision? I think you’re the one who is mistaken. That’s what you’ve earned here for yourself.

 

[OrangeDW]

I hope that Kadary’s knee is able to heal up a bit. If it’s a game where we need 30+ minutes out of him, I hope he’s physically up to it. Curious if he practices like normal with an injury like that? Or do they rest it more? Would that make a difference if they did?

Would be nice to get locked in Griff, but if not we’ve proven we can win big games with the other main 7 playing well. A healthy Kadary (he’s contributing still but he can do more and play more) and/or a locked in Griff could put us over the top.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The tournament, yes.

Do you have any evidence of this?

 

[Day2]

Do you have any evidence of this?

Is the SU/UNC game still on the ESPN app? Or YouTube?

 

[OrangeDW]

Girard has been helping us a lot recently and we need him to continue his strong play. He seems to be playing with a different energy. 2016 Trevor Cooney in the tourney type run? Much maligned at times during the season but really locked in and played well on both ends in the tourney. Hope Joe keeps it up.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Is the SU/UNC game still on the ESPN app? Or YouTube?

So your evidence is commentary during that game? Whose?

 

[Oakland]

Wasn’t this the same poster that wrote a whole article on why SDSU should win? Cuse didn’t even have to play “optimal at every level “ to win that game either btw.

Yes!!! I was looking for that post - really surprised that so many posters are bothering to respond to this person. I'd be interested to know who it actually is.

 

[Ceerqqq]

We can still direct mocking derision to your completely subjective love of everything he does though, right?

Sure you can. Bring it on.

My question for you: can you be persuaded to explain why you insinuate--with insults intended--that anyone who defends Boeheim's approach to coaching his teams must possessed by some kind of bizarre, beyond-the-pale worship for the guy?

I've given counter-arguments, counter-interpretations of why Boeheim has made the rotation decisions he's made. Instead of answering them, challenging their logic, and you choose to snarkily brand them as the senseless rantings of a loony hero-worshiper.

Objectively, a clear sign that your 'case' is collapsing around you...

 

[SuFTW]

Yes!!! I was looking for that post - really surprised that so many posters are bothering to respond to this person. I'd be interested to know who it actually is.

SDSU -->Should<-- Win This Game, But...

Just looking at the numbers, comparing the records, the overall team experience, the demonstrated talent on the rosters, any sober objective mind has to predict an SDSU victory on Friday night based on those variables alone. As Coach Boeheim has said, they have no weaknesses. They have an...

syracusefan.com

 

[City of Cuse]

So your evidence is commentary during that game? Whose?

Everyone was talking them up before the tourney. Most dangerous 14 seed ever, something like that.

Even some odds makers had them in the top 5 likely to win the tourney.

ACC Tournament odds 2020: Duke the betting favorite with Florida State not far behind | Sporting News

www.sportingnews.com

 

[CuseChat23]

These discussion boards happen for every program all over the country and fans argue about their head coach and the program's success. I also complained about the lack of PT Richmond and Braswell were getting earlier in the year especially when the guys ahead of them were really struggling and we were getting absolutely crushed in some games. Maybe if the shift in PT happens earlier in the season we are not sweating out being a bubble team for what seems like about the 7th year in a row. I feel like if the media asks JB about things like Richmond's PT then that is almost a kiss of death to the poor kid because a fan or reporter is certainly not going to tell JB how to coach his team. He seems to hear everything but denies that he does. All I know is the buzz around Richmond even back in practice in the fall was through the roof so I'm not sure how he was not ready? Even every ESPN announcer thought he should be getting more minutes and many of these guys are ex players or coaches not discussion board guys and gals like us. I feel like JB should of recognized that Buddy was struggling with his legs and wind (since he has admitted it now) after COVID and played him closer to 28-30 minutes a game rather than 36-40. I feel like he gives him more breaks during the games now than when he was shooting 23% from the 3. You guys can back JB all you want but it's funny how many of the things we were all calling for like more PT for Richmond, Edwards and Braswell have helped turn this team into what it is today. Buddy becoming an all world guy has also been a huge part of this run. I still hate the short leash that some players get while others don't and I think that has lead to lower rated recruiting classes than the past but we all know that won't change just like 100% zone 24/7 which works much better in the tournament than in the ACC. Bottom line is we are all stoked that this team is in the Sweet 16 again and I'm not sure if the teams underachieve during the regular season to make us sweat out Selection Sundays or if they just overachieve during the tournament. Whatever it is it's super frustrating during the regular season and a blast during the NCAA. And I guess for years moving we get to keep arguing about this topic since he told Colin Cowherd today that he is basically going to coach forever! All I can says go Cuse and JB and lets go win 4 more games!

 

[AlaskaSU]

Silly. That is just a silly reply. first, I never said that newer players don't make mistakes. Find me where I said that? JB is a great coach. I have been a fan of his for every game of his coaching career. I was at his first win against Harvard and his first loss against West Virginia. He knows more about hoop than anyone here. but he, like everyone else, isn't perfect. And one of his newer guys, Griff, made mistakes that hurt us all year. And he wouldn't play za guy with more experience in the program and with the zone, Braswell, until it was almost too late to matter. Now, he is playing him, and we are winning. Wouldn't play Edwards either. despite us getting mauled on the boards time after time. Magically, he is playing them now, and lo and behold, we are winning. You see, those are facts. Not hero worship guesses. they weren't playing and we were losing. They are playing, and we are winning. I don't think a court would have a difficult time figuring out which side was correct and which side was wrong. But you go on being you.

It is logically impossible to know which side is right. I've coached a girls rec team. JB has a bit more experience and success. Therefore, I side with him.

 

[dasher]

It is logically impossible to know which side is right. I've coached a girls rec team. JB has a bit more experience and success. Therefore, I side with him.

You are correct. It is impossible to know for certain. But those of us on the other side of this discussion didn't start a thread on this as the OP did. And the OP has basically argued that Jb is incapable of making an error.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah you know, it’s just great to see Robert Braswell play his role to a T. Major factor defensively, tall enough to pull down some boards in traffic, and is shooting the 3 consistently well. And he plays within himself. Love it.

 

[cusetown1]

This thread has potential .

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Sure you can. Bring it on.

My question for you: can you be persuaded to explain why you insinuate--with insults intended--that anyone who defends Boeheim's approach to coaching his teams must possessed by some kind of bizarre, beyond-the-pale worship for the guy?

I've given counter-arguments, counter-interpretations of why Boeheim has made the rotation decisions he's made. Instead of answering them, challenging their logic, and you choose to snarkily brand them as the senseless rantings of a loony hero-worshiper.

Objectively, a clear sign that your 'case' is collapsing around you...

Ok boomer.

 

[OrangeDW]

Feel like Jesse Edwards can become a jump hook guy? He’s got the length and there is some touch there. I was thinking about a baby hook, but he seems to be more of a two foot jumper than a one foot jumper, so I’m going with the jump hook.

 

[Ceerqqq]

Seriously? If you may?

There’s no need to insult my intelligence. I thought my post was very even-keeled. We have consistently underperformed our historical regular season expectations for an extended period. And yet we have multiple Sweet 16s and Final Fours to counteract those regular seasons. I fully understand how basketball works. And it doesn’t take a rocketship scientist to make such observations.

You’re the one who started a divisive thread during what should be the most exciting and anticipated week of the season.

Congratulations. I hope you’re enjoying your well-earned internet attention.

Mocking derision? I think you’re the one who is mistaken. That’s what you’ve earned here for yourself.

I didn't understand your umbrage at first, because I hadn't assumed that you were necessarily one of those who subject Boeheim's coaching decisions to "mocking derision." That's why I said, "For those who..."

But now, given your reaction, should I assume that you did identify with those who aim mocking derision at Boeheim?

 

[syrBossHogg]

We spend more money on the basketball program than all but maybe 5 programs in all of College Basketball
We have great local talent not only in New York but also in surrounding states we can recruit towards
We lead the NCAA in attendance practically ever year
We have great facilities and NBA alumni
We have a HOF head coach

Why can't we do better than finishing on the bubble for 6 straight seasons and hoping we get a good draw to make a run? Is it cause of the sanctions? Those have been gone for multiple years now. Is it too much to ask to be good in both the regular season and the post season?