This just cant be true

[TheCusian]

It’s July

 

[SUFaninNJ]

4-8
4-8
4-8
3-9
7-6
8-5
5-7
8-5
4-8
3-9
2-10
4-8
1-10
6-6
6-6
4-8

That's why. As previously stated, that amounts to 73-121. A .376 winning percentage over the last 16 years does not drive ticket sales. Being a season ticket holder from New Jersey for the last 18 years, I am obviously a bit touched in the head. Please take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[Orangejet]

4-8
4-8
4-8
3-9
7-6
8-5
5-7
8-5
4-8
3-9
2-10
4-8
1-10
6-6
6-6
4-8

That's why. As previously stated, that amounts to 73-121. A .376 winning percentage over the last 16 years does not drive ticket sales. Being a season ticket holder from New Jersey for the last 18 years, I am obviously a bit touched in the head. Please take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Wonder where the .376 winning % ranks amongst P5 teams? This reminds me of the 70's and into the 80's until the 1987 team finally got the CUSE rolling.

 

[RandomGuy]

I prefer a slow plodding run game, with great defense. Fundamental football. But I think Dino's system can help bring excitement to the casual fan.

Back to back bowl years, and I think folks slowly come back. When it's 90+ and near 100 percent humidity in the dome? It's too simple to choose your recliner, in 68 degrees...

If we're rolling in 2020, the dome curiousity will bring folks in. When the AC goes in, folks may go, in part, to keep cool on a hot September day. Especially those students, in their non air-conditioned dorms. They may enjoy it enough to return.

 

[TheCusian]

I prefer a slow plodding run game, with great defense. Fundamental football. But I think Dino's system can help bring excitement to the casual fan.

Back to back bowl years, and I think folks slowly come back. When it's 90+ and near 100 percent humidity in the dome? It's too simple to choose your recliner, in 68 degrees...

If we're rolling in 2020, the dome curiousity will bring folks in. When the AC goes in, folks may go, in part, to keep cool on a hot September day. Especially those students, in their non air-conditioned dorms. They may enjoy it enough to return.

I think the last time we were good with that system/mentality was with Ernie Davis/Little? I don't think Dino's system is just for flash and excitement to get people in the dome. It's the best chance we have at relevancy in the ACC and nationally.

 

[RandomGuy]

I think the last time we were good with that system/mentality was with Ernie Davis/Little? I don't think Dino's system is just for flash and excitement to get people in the dome. It's the best chance we have at relevancy in the ACC and nationally.

I should have said run more than pass, like 80 of the 130 teams in the FBS. My point was that Dino's system is just more fun for the casual fan.. I prefer fundamental football, while many today enjoy fantasy football type stats- or a college game that more resembles the pros. For some, ("meathead" haters) I do think it makes a difference in their enjoyment.

**Even with Mcnabb, coach P threw it 22 times a game, to 47 runs. 68% run.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I prefer a slow plodding run game, with great defense. Fundamental football. But I think Dino's system can help bring excitement to the casual fan.
.

"Meathead" football is no longer very effective.
It's kind of like how there are not really any post-up centers in the NBA anymore.

The game has moved on. I'm glad we've got a coach who knows how to score more than 20 points in a game. Now, the trick is having a defense that doesn't give up 40.

 

[JeremyCuse]

This post comes up in some iteration every summer and while I can understand the OP's frustration the answers really remain the same and were pointed out by other posters in this thread. That said having responded every other year on this I feel obligated to this year as well.

As others have noted winning is the biggest issue. A winning season isn't going to get SU to average 45K a game but string together a few wins and people will take notice and you will start getting the casual fan who might decide SU vs NC State is a better option then fighting a massive crowd at Beak & Skiff. in early fall. Beating Clemson was a good start but you can't go and get obliterated in the last two home games against peer schools to end the season as a follow up performance.

The marketing program has also been a colossal failure. As another astute poster pointed out earlier is mindboggling how many people have zero clue about the program and really the team in general. Forget the casual fan a good chunk of the local populace doesn't even know who or when SU is playing most weekends. SU has to do a better job here. They usually pull out all the stops to get the Dome packed for one game a year (See Clemson two years ago) but that appears to be via a ticket giveaway which isn't sustainable over a 6 or 7 game schedule. Marketing department needs to get out in front for once and make the push before the season starts or at least very early in the season. Again its not rocket science, TV ads, apperances at different locations over the summer, discounts for first time season ticket holders etc. Don't be afraid to get out in the community during the season as well. If SU is on the road or on a bye week, send a few ticket people and some interns and Otto to beak and skiff or a pumpkin patch or wherever people who don't get loaded on the weekends like I do go to have fun and push single game and reduced price season tickets. Also make calling the ticket office and SU orange pack a customer friendly experience for a change instead of it feeling like your bothering these people your trying to give your money to and who usually have zero or the wrong information your calling about.

Work with the existing fanbase and with the tools the local area offers to increase attendance. SU has the advantage of basically being in the middle of the state, fan out within a 90 min radius or so and hit some events over the summer. They have the State Fair about 15 mins from campus (about 5 if Cuseregular or Bees are driving), that should be a goldmind for ticket sales. You have 10 or so day event that draws a million + people in your backyard and the season kicks off while its going on. SU should have a giant booth smack dab in the busiest area (near Chevy Court or whatever the hell its called these days) with Otto and some cheerleaders and guys like Jason Poles and others who are former players that are employed by SU pushing offers on single game and season ticket packages. Have a TV replaying the Clemson game over and over, have TexanMark demonstrating the latest tailgate equipment and have DCCuse demonstrating that it is possible to drink 3 cases of beer in a 4 hour tailgate. There is no way they wouldn't come out with major sales from doing something like that. Instead they had a booth in the least trafficked building in the place that you needed the rosetta stone to find and I don't think they have had anything the last few years. This should be a huge deal for the marketing and ticketing dept instead we get a kiosk in a hallway at Destiny, the ineptitude is staggering.

Lastly stop crapping on the fanbase that does show up. When you look at how bad things have been (save for a few season under Marrone) since P began his decline its amazing we have as big a fanbase as we do. Instead of trying to cultivate that fanbase SU spends to much time bickering with it and amongst its different departments. When you get a Sat home game at 7pm for the first time since McNabb how about leaving it at that time instead of moving it to Fri night on Labor Day weekend when have the city is either at the fair or heading for vacation. Encourage tailgating and help to cultivate the good but undersized tailgate scene that currently exists around the Dome. Don't harrass the patrons with parking attendants who think their part of the Secret Service or Gestapo. Try and find additional areas for people utilize as tailgate space and charge a reasonable price versus creating a giant parking lot across from the west lots thats now in year 3 of legal limbo with ESF and its pretty much useless on game days. Realize its not 1986 and get someone to over see the concession system who has a clue. The Alcohol options including craft beer and local wines has finally made it to the Dome over the last 5 years but the food options are the same most fans had to choose from 30+ years ago and thats coming from someone who tailgates and doesn't eat at the dome, its pitiful.

When you make a better experience and get active/aggressive in marketing the program and pushing ticket sales attendance number will increase and with winning they will increase dramatically. When you do the same thing every year and your marketing consists of a facebook post and a 45 second TV ad at 2:30 AM on god knows what channel your going to get the same low attendance numbers.

 

[Eric15]

whats your point? he did not have less than 500 and had two bowl game wins. the guy is an awesome coach to bad we could keep him and given him the same tools that now exist

The point is that a couple Pinstripe Bowl victories is going to certainly excite us diehards, but no casual fan is going to get genuinely fired up over that.

 

[SUskibum]

If we where closer to Syracuse, about 4-5 hours right now, I think we would have kept them and even started bringing the other two kids to games. They loved the spring practice but at points where asking when it was done and doing normal "bored" kid stuff. We do plan on getting tickets again soon and unless we get a few crazy good seasons I think we will still get good seats hopefully.

We live in southeast PA.

Everyone has priorities and budget, so I’m not trying to pursuade you, but we have to drive 4 hrs each way also.

We decided that those trips would just be overnighters so we could relax/hang out in Syracuse all night as a family after the game and then take the trip home early AM.

The short story is that I didn’t grow up with very many family traditions/fond memories and I decided (w/SUskibumwife approval) was to make Syracuse football one of those traditions we can share together as a family. I hope and think we will get back to good football soon, but it’s about more than that for us.

 

[SoBristol]

A losing program does not suddenly and magically turn it around. College football is all about recruiting. And fans might respond if we started seeing a significant uplift in recruiting results. Currently, we sit #14 in the ACC -- so no buzz. Or they might respond if we had some young stars to rally around. Currently, we have a few players in the ACC pre-season teams -- but not many and the best two are Shafer's guys (Dungey & Slayton).

I believe this 2018 will be a bowl team, but it is easy to understand the general apathy.

 

[OttoMets]

... or wherever people who don't get loaded on the weekends like I do go to have fun ...

Love this line. Also, good post!

 

[RandomGuy]

"Meathead" football is no longer very effective.
It's kind of like how there are not really any post-up centers in the NBA anymore.

Not true. Alabama and Georgia were in the bottom in pass attempts. Bama #113, with 23.7 attempts per game. Georgia #122 with 19.8 attemps per game. (Right on par with coach P's game) My larger point, is that folks like you, really enjoy the passing game, and would rather see it that way. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[SUskibum]

Not true. Alabama and Georgia were in the bottom in pass attempts. Bama #113, with 23.7 attempts per game. Georgia #122 with 19.8 attemps per game. My larger point, is that folks like you, really enjoy the passing game, and would rather see it that way. Nothing wrong with that.

Millhouse did some great analysis a while back that essentially showed that there are no examples of successful “meathead” programs that don’t involve blue blood programs. I think he defined blue blood by some measurement of budget. Like maybe the top 20 schools with the highest coaching salaries were considered blue blood. The idea being we shouldn’t compare ourselves to them because we will never spend like that.

The final summary was all successful programs that were not in the top 20 of budgets, had an offense oriented/fast paced approach.

 

[lincolncuse]

This post comes up in some iteration every summer and while I can understand the OP's frustration the answers really remain the same and were pointed out by other posters in this thread. That said having responded every other year on this I feel obligated to this year as well.

As others have noted winning is the biggest issue. A winning season isn't going to get SU to average 45K a game but string together a few wins and people will take notice and you will start getting the casual fan who might decide SU vs NC State is a better option then fighting a massive crowd at Beak & Skiff. in early fall. Beating Clemson was a good start but you can't go and get obliterated in the last two home games against peer schools to end the season as a follow up performance.

The marketing program has also been a colossal failure. As another astute poster pointed out earlier is mindboggling how many people have zero clue about the program and really the team in general. Forget the casual fan a good chunk of the local populace doesn't even know who or when SU is playing most weekends. SU has to do a better job here. They usually pull out all the stops to get the Dome packed for one game a year (See Clemson two years ago) but that appears to be via a ticket giveaway which isn't sustainable over a 6 or 7 game schedule. Marketing department needs to get out in front for once and make the push before the season starts or at least very early in the season. Again its not rocket science, TV ads, apperances at different locations over the summer, discounts for first time season ticket holders etc. Don't be afraid to get out in the community during the season as well. If SU is on the road or on a bye week, send a few ticket people and some interns and Otto to beak and skiff or a pumpkin patch or wherever people who don't get loaded on the weekends like I do go to have fun and push single game and reduced price season tickets. Also make calling the ticket office and SU orange pack a customer friendly experience for a change instead of it feeling like your bothering these people your trying to give your money to and who usually have zero or the wrong information your calling about.

Work with the existing fanbase and with the tools the local area offers to increase attendance. SU has the advantage of basically being in the middle of the state, fan out within a 90 min radius or so and hit some events over the summer. They have the State Fair about 15 mins from campus (about 5 if Cuseregular or Bees are driving), that should be a goldmind for ticket sales. You have 10 or so day event that draws a million + people in your backyard and the season kicks off while its going on. SU should have a giant booth smack dab in the busiest area (near Chevy Court or whatever the hell its called these days) with Otto and some cheerleaders and guys like Jason Poles and others who are former players that are employed by SU pushing offers on single game and season ticket packages. Have a TV replaying the Clemson game over and over, have TexanMark demonstrating the latest tailgate equipment and have DCCuse demonstrating that it is possible to drink 3 cases of beer in a 4 hour tailgate. There is no way they wouldn't come out with major sales from doing something like that. Instead they had a booth in the least trafficked building in the place that you needed the rosetta stone to find and I don't think they have had anything the last few years. This should be a huge deal for the marketing and ticketing dept instead we get a kiosk in a hallway at Destiny, the ineptitude is staggering.

Lastly stop crapping on the fanbase that does show up. When you look at how bad things have been (save for a few season under Marrone) since P began his decline its amazing we have as big a fanbase as we do. Instead of trying to cultivate that fanbase SU spends to much time bickering with it and amongst its different departments. When you get a Sat home game at 7pm for the first time since McNabb how about leaving it at that time instead of moving it to Fri night on Labor Day weekend when have the city is either at the fair or heading for vacation. Encourage tailgating and help to cultivate the good but undersized tailgate scene that currently exists around the Dome. Don't harrass the patrons with parking attendants who think their part of the Secret Service or Gestapo. Try and find additional areas for people utilize as tailgate space and charge a reasonable price versus creating a giant parking lot across from the west lots thats now in year 3 of legal limbo with ESF and its pretty much useless on game days. Realize its not 1986 and get someone to over see the concession system who has a clue. The Alcohol options including craft beer and local wines has finally made it to the Dome over the last 5 years but the food options are the same most fans had to choose from 30+ years ago and thats coming from someone who tailgates and doesn't eat at the dome, its pitiful.

When you make a better experience and get active/aggressive in marketing the program and pushing ticket sales attendance number will increase and with winning they will increase dramatically. When you do the same thing every year and your marketing consists of a facebook post and a 45 second TV ad at 2:30 AM on god knows what channel your going to get the same low attendance numbers.

lol fantastic

Not sure DCCuse could pull that off anymore. He might end up back in the medical tent ala Northwestern 2012

 

[RandomGuy]

Millhouse did some great analysis a while back that essentially showed that there are no examples of successful “meathead” programs that don’t involve blue blood programs. I think he defined blue blood by some measurement of budget. Like maybe the top 20 schools with the highest coaching salaries were considered blue blood. The idea being we shouldn’t compare ourselves to them because we will never spend like that.

The final summary was all successful programs that were not in the top 20 of budgets, had an offense oriented/fast paced approach.

Cool. Link me up.. ;-). I love that stuff


I have zero prob with Dino's system. I do think it's more fun for the casual fan.(my larger point, all along). If Dino had some great run blocking scheme, I'm pretty sure many around here wouldn't be too excited about it. I think Dino is the right fit, at the right time. With a little success, I do think many folks will have a more enjoyable time when they do go to a game. And yeah, maybe they come back, especially as the Reno moves along. (And everything JeremyCuse said.)

 

[JeremyCuse]

lol fantasric

Not sure DCCuse could pull that off anymore. He might end up back in the medical tent ala Northwestern 2012

That day just added to his legendary mystique.

 

[sufandu]

Winning will always be primary with style a close second. If we could have 5 consecutive seasons of 10 wins, including beating a big name every year, we'd see interest rise, regardless of style, simply because local and national news outlets would talk about us. If nothing else, CNYers want to feel relevant, and if the national media talks about us we are. If we put up big numbers in a fun way, I think the 10 win thing can soften and be less consistent, but we still have to be somewhere around 8 with no dud seasons in the near future and some wins over big names to draw interest. If we drop 60 and give up 65 with a losing record nothing will change. I don't expect that to be the case. Assuming nothing drastic changes, I think we see annual improvement with us settling in around 8 wins a year with a year of +/- 2 thrown in every 3 or 4 years. That kind of sustained pattern with exciting style will be enough to respectively improve interest.

 

[tipphill]

The point is that a couple Pinstripe Bowl victories is going to certainly excite us diehards, but no casual fan is going to get genuinely fired up over that.

neither is going 4-8

 

[Pyle]

"Meathead" football is no longer very effective.
It's kind of like how there are not really any post-up centers in the NBA anymore.

The game has moved on. I'm glad we've got a coach who knows how to score more than 20 points in a game. Now, the trick is having a defense that doesn't give up 40.

Score? You mean get a bunch of yards and maybe score? Fact is over Dino's first two seasons we're looking about 26/27 ppg. That's only a few above Shafer. DM had more in 2012 at 30+. Let's not make things up. Matter of fact, see for yourself(first PPG is ours vs our opponents)

Since the bottom fell out:

2009: DM/Paulus 21.2 vs 27.9 PPG
2010: DM/Nassib 22.2 vs 19.3 PPG
2011: DM/Nassib 24.2 vs 28.5 PPG
2012: DM/Nassib 30.0 vs 24.8 PPG
2013: Shafer/Hunt 22.7 vs 25.4 PPG
2014: Shafer/Committee 17.1 vs 24.3 PPG
2015: Shafer/Dungey 27.2 vs 31.0 PPG
2016: Babers/Dungey 25.7 vs 38.6 PPG
2017: Babers/Dungey 27.4 vs 32.2 PPG

So despite all of the extra plays, the extra yards, etc, at the end of the day we scored about as many points last year as we did the year Shafer got fired. And Marrone/Nassib have given us the best offense in the past 10 years. Not Babers/Dungey. Given that our PPG given up hasn't improved, it really is time to put up or shut up. A few moral victories and so called faith is all we have. It really isn't about just scoring more, it's about scoring more than the other guy and that includes playing solid D and ST (all the way through Nov)

 

[orange_in_VA]

Winning will always be primary with style a close second. If we could have 5 consecutive seasons of 10 wins, including beating a big name every year, we'd see interest rise, regardless of style, simply because local and national news outlets would talk about us. If nothing else, CNYers want to feel relevant, and if the national media talks about us we are. If we put up big numbers in a fun way, I think the 10 win thing can soften and be less consistent, but we still have to be somewhere around 8 with no dud seasons in the near future and some wins over big names to draw interest. If we drop 60 and give up 65 with a losing record nothing will change. I don't expect that to be the case. Assuming nothing drastic changes, I think we see annual improvement with us settling in around 8 wins a year with a year of +/- 2 thrown in every 3 or 4 years. That kind of sustained pattern with exciting style will be enough to respectively improve interest.

We've had double digit win seasons 6 times in our entire history. 4 of those came within a 6 year period. Since the last time we won 10 games (2001. Also the last time we were ranked), we are averaging 4.5 wins per year. I'm not saying it's impossible and of course I dream of seasons like that, but in the current landscape Cuse winning 10 or more games is highly unlikely regardless of who the coach is. I'd be happy just not being the laughing stock of college football which we've been pretty much my entire life.

 

[TheCusian]

I should have said run more than pass, like 80 of the 130 teams in the FBS. My point was that Dino's system is just more fun for the casual fan.. I prefer fundamental football, while many today enjoy fantasy football type stats- or a college game that more resembles the pros. For some, ("meathead" haters) I do think it makes a difference in their enjoyment.

**Even with Mcnabb, coach P threw it 22 times a game, to 47 runs. 68% run.

I get what you’re saying, truly. And I get the love of “3yds and a cloud of dust” stuff. I like defense. I defended Shafer far longer than I should have because I enjoy his style of defense.

But - Running more isn’t a sign of meathead football. Dino wants to run more than pass. It’s the whole goal of those quick screens outside of the hash to the WRs.

I absolutely agree that this style is more fun and should pull in the average fan more.

Here’s to winning - the ultimate draw

 

[SWC75]

 

[SWC75]

Millhouse did some great analysis a while back that essentially showed that there are no examples of successful “meathead” programs that don’t involve blue blood programs. I think he defined blue blood by some measurement of budget. Like maybe the top 20 schools with the highest coaching salaries were considered blue blood. The idea being we shouldn’t compare ourselves to them because we will never spend like that.

The final summary was all successful programs that were not in the top 20 of budgets, had an offense oriented/fast paced approach.

There's an inverse relationship between the talent, (size, speed, depth, etc.) you have the complexity your scheme has to have to be successful.

 

[TheCusian]

Score? You mean get a bunch of yards and maybe score? Fact is over Dino's first two seasons we're looking about 26/27 ppg. That's only a few above Shafer. DM had more in 2012 at 30+. Let's not make things up. Matter of fact, see for yourself(first PPG is ours vs our opponents)

Since the bottom fell out:

2009: DM/Paulus 21.2 vs 27.9 PPG
2010: DM/Nassib 22.2 vs 19.3 PPG
2011: DM/Nassib 24.2 vs 28.5 PPG
2012: DM/Nassib 30.0 vs 24.8 PPG
2013: Shafer/Hunt 22.7 vs 25.4 PPG
2014: Shafer/Committee 17.1 vs 24.3 PPG
2015: Shafer/Dungey 27.2 vs 31.0 PPG
2016: Babers/Dungey 25.7 vs 38.6 PPG
2017: Babers/Dungey 27.4 vs 32.2 PPG

So despite all of the extra plays, the extra yards, etc, at the end of the day we scored about as many points last year as we did the year Shafer got fired. And Marrone/Nassib have given us the best offense in the past 10 years. Not Babers/Dungey. Given that our PPG given up hasn't improved, it really is time to put up or shut up. A few moral victories and so called faith is all we have. It really isn't about just scoring more, it's about scoring more than the other guy and that includes playing solid D and ST (all the way through Nov)

I get tired of refuting this one