This just cant be true

[Newhouser]

We've had double digit win seasons 6 times in our entire history. 4 of those came within a 6 year period. Since the last time we won 10 games (2001. Also the last time we were ranked), we are averaging 4.5 wins per year. I'm not saying it's impossible and of course I dream of seasons like that, but in the current landscape Cuse winning 10 or more games is highly unlikely regardless of who the coach is. I'd be happy just not being the laughing stock of college football which we've been pretty much my entire life.

Wow those numbers are stunning.6 double digit win seasons in our history

 

[elimunelson]

Wow those numbers are stunning.6 double digit win seasons in our history

You can argue we are one of the 5 worst Power 5 college football team in the past 15 years if you factor in our expectations, the decision making, and where we are located. That's what we are dealing with. The late 80s/90s are beginning to feel like a dream the further we move away from it.

 

[RandomGuy]

You can argue we are one of the 5 worst Power 5 college football team in the past 15 years if you factor in our expectations, the decision making, and where we are located. That's what we are dealing with. The late 80s/90s are beginning to feel like a dream the further we move away from it.

Big East was falling apart from 2002-2012. I don't think we were back in a legit conference til 2013.. Legit conference should help with legit recruits, and that's happening more, now. I'm prepared for some deja Vu. ;-)

 

[elimunelson]

Big East was falling apart from 2002-2012. I don't think we were back in a legit conference til 2013.. Legit conference should help with legit recruits, and that's happening more, now. I'm prepared for some deja Vu. ;-)

I think us being in a watered down Big East made our drop even the more damning. I could go on for hours but we had a golden opportunity to dominate that mid/late 2000s if we had made some competent hires/retained P and his recruits and gave him the resources to enter the 21st century.

The conference is actually hurting us if you ask me because we have zero mid 90s Rutgers/Pitt to pen in a win now. Every team is better than us as of right now. Tough sledding

 

[MadNY3]

the football and the experience have to be fun - from parking, to in-game, to concessions, to product on the field, etc.

Fun parking?

It’s called Uber.

 

[gbo]

Every team is better than us as of right now. Tough sledding

That may be true but no one is penciling Cuse in as an automatic victory. I think you guys proved that last year with beating Clemson.

There is no doubt in my mind that you guys are on the right track. You've got an excellent HC (who I hope we steal when Dabo eventually leaves us) and an offensive system that is difficult to defend. Recruiting is what is holding you guys back. It takes time to bring in great recruits when your prior seasons have been mediocre.

 

[orangecuse]

I think us being in a watered down Big East made our drop even the more damning. I could go on for hours but we had a golden opportunity to dominate that mid/late 2000s if we had made some competent hires/retained P and his recruits and gave him the resources to enter the 21st century.

The conference is actually hurting us if you ask me because we have zero mid 90s Rutgers/Pitt to pen in a win now. Every team is better than us as of right now. Tough sledding

So much agree with this. The powers that be then caused such incredible damage, practically irreparable. In my opinion, the mindset of the SU brass crippled the program. Causally related to the mindset of the GM brass that critically wounded GM (only game in town sentiment) which at one time owned nearly 58% of the market share...it's in the teen's today.

People can mock UConn, etc. all they want, but if it wasn't for the 'falling from the sky' graces of the ACC to literally give this program a "lifeline," it would be as dead as 'video killing the radio star.'

 

[RandomGuy]

I think us being in a watered down Big East made our drop even the more damning. I could go on for hours but we had a golden opportunity to dominate that mid/late 2000s if we had made some competent hires/retained P and his recruits and gave him the resources to enter the 21st century.

The conference is actually hurting us if you ask me because we have zero mid 90s Rutgers/Pitt to pen in a win now. Every team is better than us as of right now. Tough sledding

I agree. As a recruit, would you prefer to be in a conference with Temple, UConn, USF, and Cincinnati? Or Clemson, Miami, FSU, VTech, etc..? There is some incentive for recruits.

Tough sledding, for sure, but Babers is recruiting at an ACC level.(mid ACC rank, last year). I think the future is brighter than it has been in a long time. With patience, it should translate to wins, and butts in the seats.

 

[CA Monk]

So much agree with this. The powers that be then caused such incredible damage, practically irreparable. In my opinion, the mindset of the SU brass crippled the program. Causally related to the mindset of the GM brass that ruined GM back in the day (only game in town mindset) which owned nearly 58% of the market share...it's in the teen's today.

People can mock UConn, etc. all they want, but if it wasn't for the 'falling from the sky' graces of the ACC to literally give this program a "life line," it would be as dead as 'video killing the radio star.'

Let me piggyback on your piggyback: If SU wasn't in the "tough sledding" ACC I don't think I'd even bother with them. It may be a struggle, but it's one that allows us to be a player in collegiate FB & BB. If we start winning or having a few breakthrough seasons, we will experience immense satisfaction.

 

[sufandu]

Wow those numbers are stunning.6 double digit win seasons in our history

It makes sense to me. We played 10 regular season games or less per year until '71, and bowl games were much more rare, so we would have had to have had a truly spectacular season to hit double digits. That's why 5 of the 6 came on or after '87 and the 6th was, of course, was 1959. I think we were in our decline when they went to 12 games, so adding that game hasn't helped with that stat yet.

 

[elimunelson]

Let me piggyback on your piggyback: If SU wasn't in the "tough sledding" ACC I don't think I'd even bother with them. It may be a struggle, but it's one that allows us to be a player in collegiate FB & BB. If we start winning or having a few breakthrough seasons, we will experience immense satisfaction.

I have never factored the opponents as a reason i watch or don't watch. I would think if we were stuck in a lesser conference right now we'd schedule like we did in the 90s and have major programs coming in yearly.

The ACC was a money decision not a decision to play better teams. We get a gigantic check per annum being in that conference. For competitive purposes our talent at this point would be better served in the AAC in a perfect world. I haven't seen a gigantic step up in recruiting since we announced the ACC in like 2011. You can argue the move has hurt us in football if the goal is to go bowling every year. The ACC would be fantastic if we were in national championship contention but that pipe dream hasn't been remotely in our crosshairs since the Tennessee game in 1998 (that was game 1 of the year).

 

[RandomGuy]

I haven't seen a gigantic step up in recruiting since we announced the ACC in like 2011..

Not gigantic, but a healthy increase in recruiting.
2011-15:. .8186 avg grade
HCDB : .8421 avg grade

2 points is good for a 20-25 increase in class rank.

Babers 18 class was a full 4 points above the 2012 and 2013 classes. Almost 5 points above 2011. There is a steady trajectory of increased recruiting. Increased $$ is helping with the dome/facilities, and that helps with recruits.

 

[sufandu]

I have never factored the opponents as a reason i watch or don't watch. I would think if we were stuck in a lesser conference right now we'd schedule like we did in the 90s and have major programs coming in yearly.

The ACC was a money decision not a decision to play better teams. We get a gigantic check per annum being in that conference. For competitive purposes our talent at this point would be better served in the AAC in a perfect world. I haven't seen a gigantic step up in recruiting since we announced the ACC in like 2011. You can argue the move has hurt us in football if the goal is to go bowling every year. The ACC would be fantastic if we were in national championship contention but that pipe dream hasn't been remotely in our crosshairs since the Tennessee game in 1998 (that was game 1 of the year).

Competitively, the move to the ACC was a short term pain long term gain move. If we were in the AAC we'd have trouble getting the talent we've been able to get the last two classes.

Getting back to the theme of the thread, the name of our opponent may not matter to you, but it does to the casual fan. Being in the ACC will help us in that regard as we get better.

 

[elimunelson]

Competitively, the move to the ACC was a short term pain long term gain move. If we were in the AAC we'd have trouble getting the talent we've been able to get the last two classes.

Getting back to the theme of the thread, the name of our opponent may not matter to you, but it does to the casual fan. Being in the ACC will help us in that regard as we get better.

let's hope you are right. There are teams in the AAC pulling down talent like USF/UCF/Memphis. These teams have done more with less as well. Our degree of difficulty is very very hard where we are. I wouldn't want it any other way but we need to hit on the recruits we get, coach everyone up, and hope things break for us. It's tough for sure. We haven't hit on all 3 for 20 plus years. Hope this is the year.

 

[RandomGuy]

I'm fully aware that a sustainable rebuild takes 5 years, or so. Now, if we bowl this year, it would be perfect timing. 2020 recruiting will be in full swing, and those kids will never step foot in the dome, as we currently know it.

Bowl team + new facilities = better recruits.

They all add up to increased attendance.

 

[TheCusian]

let's hope you are right. There are teams in the AAC pulling down talent like USF/UCF/Memphis. These teams have done more with less as well. Our degree of difficulty is very very hard where we are. I wouldn't want it any other way but we need to hit on the recruits we get, coach everyone up, and hope things break for us. It's tough for sure. We haven't hit on all 3 for 20 plus years. Hope this is the year.

AAC would doom us to perpetual irrelevance and hurt basketball where we are top 30 program. USF and the like are in prime recruiting areas. Good coaches want to coach there due to talent (so they can pivot quickly to an even better job).

If you’re banging the BC drum, then you have to believe we can be at least that in the ACC on the regular.

I 1000% agree we’ve not seen a confluence of coaching, recruiting and resources like we have now for a very long time. That’s why patience is needed with Dino.

It’s always uphill for NE teams. But the only way to stay relevant is with smart coaching hires and money spent wisely.

 

[elimunelson]

AAC would doom us to perpetual irrelevance and hurt basketball where we are top 30 program. USF and the like are in prime recruiting areas. Good coaches want to coach there due to talent (so they can pivot quickly to an even better job).

If you’re banging the BC drum, then you have to believe we can be at least that in the ACC on the regular.

I 1000% agree we’ve not seen a confluence of coaching, recruiting and resources like we have now for a very long time. That’s why patience is needed with Dino.

It’s always uphill for NE teams. But the only way to stay relevant is with smart coaching hires and money spent wisely.

I’m not trying to say otherwise. I’m just illustrating that the conference doesn’t guarantee bad recruits,or bad coaching

I’m Happy we r in the ACC. Doesn’t mean it helps us achieve bowl games. It’s a tough conference for a team rebuilding w a complete overhaul. Year 3 we should see it in action. My initial comment rings true, time for Dino’s offense to take off w his recruits and his coaching

 

[RandomGuy]

I’m not trying to say otherwise. I’m just illustrating that the conference doesn’t guarantee bad recruits,or bad coaching

I’m Happy we r in the ACC. Doesn’t mean it helps us achieve bowl games. It’s a tough conference for a team rebuilding w a complete overhaul. Year 3 we should see it in action. My initial comment rings true, time for Dino’s offense to take off w his recruits and his coaching

Someone posted at history of rebuilds, with corresponding facts, showing it takes about 5 years for a rebuild. Be nice to have an uptick this year, though.

 

[SUskibum]

I'm fully aware that a sustainable rebuild takes 5 years, or so. Now, if we bowl this year, it would be perfect timing. 2020 recruiting will be in full swing, and those kids will never step foot in the dome, as we currently know it.

Bowl team + new facilities + exciting style of play = better recruits.

They all add up to increased attendance.

FIFY

 

[elimunelson]

Someone posted at history of rebuilds, with corresponding facts, showing it takes about 5 years for a rebuild. Be nice to have an uptick this year, though.

we don't have time for 5 years when the rebuild is rebuilding 3 other rebuilds.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

FIFY

This guy gets it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

we don't have time for 5 years when the rebuild is rebuilding 3 other rebuilds.

Eh, that's the kind of thinking that just digs a deeper hole.

 

[sufandu]

let's hope you are right. There are teams in the AAC pulling down talent like USF/UCF/Memphis. These teams have done more with less as well. Our degree of difficulty is very very hard where we are. I wouldn't want it any other way but we need to hit on the recruits we get, coach everyone up, and hope things break for us. It's tough for sure. We haven't hit on all 3 for 20 plus years. Hope this is the year.

All three of those teams are in football hotbeds. Name a northeast team not in a P5 conference recruiting well. We would wither away to nothing outside of a P5 conference. We would be UConn. The fact we have history and they don't would not help us. No decent coach would give us a chance other than as a stepping stone and no player outside of the northeast would look at us while the good players in the northeast would go elsewhere. Our degree of difficulty is hard, but it's the only chance we ever had to be relevant in the future.

 

[longtimefan]

let's hope you are right. There are teams in the AAC pulling down talent like USF/UCF/Memphis. These teams have done more with less as well. Our degree of difficulty is very very hard where we are. I wouldn't want it any other way but we need to hit on the recruits we get, coach everyone up, and hope things break for us. It's tough for sure. We haven't hit on all 3 for 20 plus years. Hope this is the year.

More than a few USF/UCF/Memphis recruits would not be admitted to SU.

Think back 15 years. TWO publically bemoaned the fact that SU football was at a competitive disadvantage in the Big East because of the difference in academics vis-a-vis LVille, Cincinnati, USF.

 

[nzm136]

It's not false. The counter, courtesy of Millhouse, is that we haven't been getting the defensive or special teams scores Shafer was getting. I would add that the lack of a running game makes it hard to sustain and finish drives. The thing is, it's been two years and we still have those deficits. And you would think our vast increase in passing numbers would move the needle more than it has.

I think that he also ignored the number of possessions, which is 100% cooking the numbers.

I haven’t checked since Dino’s first season, but SS’ offense was more efficient, meaning it was better at scoring points when it got the ball (i.e. 90% of what an offense is supposed to do). THAT is the problem w/ Dino’s scheme.

HOWEVER, Dino has brought in some great talent (at least on paper), and he has been consistent w/ his philosophy. So, I do think that it will improve.

AND the defense made MASSIVE strides last year, and was actually quite good in my eyes. Talent/depth showed in the last 2 games. But I’m not concerned about our direction on that’s front.

Net-net, I think that fans are cooking the books to distort reality, but I also think that we have the coach to take us to where we need to go.