Tom Brady

[donniesyracuse]

I understand what the current rule is. I'm suggesting that they change it. It removes all of the variables if you have both teams play with the same ball. It evens the playing field if there is cheating.

I agree; I am surprised more people are not saying this.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The NFL must be feeling lucky that NE blew out the Colts. If that had been a 31-28 game, the angst over this would be much greater.

And even if Brady was behind this, nothing happens without BB knowing about it. They're both guilty.

He had better stats with the fully inflated footballs so maybe he was hurting himself, not helping.

 

[orangenirvana]

The fact people buy into this crap shows how stupid we've become. 99 percent of people wouldn't care if it was any other quarterback, but because it's boy wonder it's a huge deal. If this was tony romo people would be making fun of him. He seemed to play fine in the second half with regular footballs kaiser! People want everything to be a scandal these days.

"He should of been able to feel the difference."

Apparently nobody was able to feel the difference.

I think some of you should get a football and do an experiment. See how a football feels at 12.5 psi, and then see how it's feels at 11.

It's not like he was using a corked bat.

Until then, can we get on with the game? We actually have the two best teams for once.

It's actually much worse than using a corked bat. A corked bat doesn't increase one's ability to hit a baseball.

Humans have had a tendency of disliking liars and cheaters for a while now. I don't think this being a huge story is indicative of the public becoming more stupid.

 

[GoSU96]

Much ado about nothing.

Resentment, jealously, and nothing better to yak and get outraged about.

Not a Pats fan, hope they win by 50.

 

[Millhouse]

Much ado about nothing.

Resentment, jealously, and nothing better to yak and get outraged about.

Not a Pats fan, hope they win by 50.

their reputation precedes them

 

[KaiserUEO]

Much ado about nothing.

Resentment, jealously, and nothing better to yak and get outraged about.

Not a Pats fan, hope they win by 50.

no resentment or jealousy here.

just pointing out that brady is a cheating loser who cant win without being given an advantage.

how soon before we find out that his helmet headphone never gets turned off???

"pressure coming!!! step up and to the right, look deep left!!!"

death, taxes and the patsys cheating.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's actually much worse than using a corked bat. A corked bat doesn't increase one's ability to hit a baseball.

Humans have had a tendency of disliking liars and cheaters for a while now. I don't think this being a huge story is indicative of the public becoming more stupid.

If it was a different team, nobody would care. Brady had better stats with the regulation footballs. It's all about jealousy. I hope the Pats win 62-0 and I'm a Saints fan.

 

[orangenirvana]

If it was a different team, nobody would care. Brady had better stats with the regulation footballs. It's all about jealousy. I hope the Pats win 62-0 and I'm a Saints fan.

As a Saints fan, you wouldn't be frustrated to see Belichick and Brady skate yet again not long after Sean Payton and players were suspended for an entire season for less?

 

[newmexicuse]

The NFL will never do what is right, which is:

1. Suspend Brady and Beli-cheat from the Super Bowl and for the first three games of next season.

2. Lose their #1 pick

3. Fine em as much as the law allows.

In my mind they cheated willfully and wontonly, and they lie to cover it up. ZERO chance Brady didn't know those balls were under-inflated and a near certainly that they were under-inflated at his request.

In the end, I predict a wrist slap penalty - after the Super Bowl.

 

[Orangeman]

no resentment or jealousy here.

just pointing out that brady is a cheating loser who cant win without being given an advantage.

how soon before we find out that his helmet headphone never gets turned off???

"pressure coming!!! step up and to the right, look deep left!!!"

death, taxes and the patsys cheating.

You haven't seen the article suggesting that New England had developed a second frequency that turned on when the NFL radio signal turned off with 10 seconds left on the play clock, and that's when they detailed what defense was coming?

I'm not sure even I believe that.

although that makes a lot of sense

 

[Tobias Funke]

It's really funny...now the caveat is that while I've certainly felt footballs that were properly, overly and under-inflated, I haven't felt footballs that were roughly 2 PSI different, so I'm going by what the folks on TV have said, that it's definitely a difference in the feel of the ball.

And we know, factually, that the balls were 2 PSI low in the 1H of the game. And both Tom Brady and Julian Edelmann have said that the footballs didn't feel any different.

By implication, doesn't that mean they've been cheating on the balls for as long as Edelmann has been there (again, assuming the talking heads are correct and you can tell a difference by touch at the different pressures?)

Also, Brady made the age-old error of providing too much information when he's trying to avoid accusation. He said this that or the other about the preparation of the balls, even getting so specific as to say he prefers 12.5 PSI in his footballs. He THINKS he's creating an out but he's really cornering himself by providing too much information.

As people have pointed out, I REALLY CARE but I DIDN'T NOTICE doesn't fly at all given what we've heard from other professionals

I guess whatever, he's still rich and married to a super model and I'm banging away on a message board. There's a winner in there somewhere

Not trying to split hairs here, but i don't think we know factually that the balls were 2 PSI less in the game. I think we have a source that said 11 of 12 were under 12.5 up to 2 pounds less. not to say it changes the situation completely, but it certainly doesn't say all of the balls were 2 pounds less. The biggest problem here is the NFL. they can put a stop to this nonsense very quickly by announcing how much of a difference in PSI there was across the board, and recognize how much can be considered a natural change due to temperature/pressure by game time. I also want confirmation that the officials have held up pre game standards when inspecting the balls as there have been articles insinuating this may not always be the case. Also i would look for the league to explain why they issued no formal punishment when the Vikings were caught warming their footballs up on the sideline which is a violation of the same rule we are all so up in arms about, and has a similar effect by changing the PSI as well as feel for the ball.

Lastly i encourage anyone with the resources who cares so much about this subject to do the PSI test on their own. I did it on two college level balls and I literally could not tell the difference between the two by simple feel, similar to what you would see in a game. I could however tell the subtle difference when i squeezed the balls in an effort to determine pressure. Those are two drastically different exercise, and only one comes close to duplicating an in game scenario.

Lastly i will say i am a Patriots fan, and if they did intentionally deflate the balls after the referees tested them, i believe that a penalty needs to be there. What that penalty is remains to be seen, but if you expect a Saints like penalty i believe you are probably going to be disappointed.

 

[dasher]

no resentment or jealousy here.

just pointing out that brady is a cheating loser who cant win without being given an advantage.

how soon before we find out that his helmet headphone never gets turned off???

"pressure coming!!! step up and to the right, look deep left!!!"

death, taxes and the patsys cheating.

Silly. and I think you know that. If there was this wide spread cheating, guys that left them would be droping dimes. This is 100% about jealousy. People hate it when one team dominates as they have for 15 years. They are always good. Just thinking about this today about whether my opinion might be different if the Giants had lost both games or even one. It's funny. When your guy does it, it's game men ship. When the other guy does it, it's cheating. Is it cheating to pretend you were hit by a pitch when you weren't?

 

[KaiserUEO]

You haven't seen the article suggesting that New England had developed a second frequency that turned on when the NFL radio signal turned off with 10 seconds left on the play clock, and that's when they detailed what defense was coming?

I'm not sure even I believe that.

although that makes a lot of sense

never heard it.

but now...yeah id totally believe it.

im sure theyve got some crazy system working with a crack team of telecommunicators on it...

 

[Orangeman]

Silly. and I think you know that. If there was this wide spread cheating, guys that left them would be droping dimes. This is 100% about jealousy. People hate it when one team dominates as they have for 15 years. They are always good. Just thinking about this today about whether my opinion might be different if the Giants had lost both games or even one. It's funny. When your guy does it, it's game men ship. When the other guy does it, it's cheating. Is it cheating to pretend you were hit by a pitch when you weren't?

On this point, it's more likely that cheating would not be widely known within the organization...the two instances we have so far publicly acknowledged (one convicted, one alleged) were probably kept in a very small circle.

And, to bolster your argument, the minute Mangini was out of there he blew the whistle on the taping thing, so he must have been involved in that? (I dunno)

To counter your point...anytime anyone accuses another entity of cheating, there's going to be an argument that they were jealous. Because, if they were cheating a losing, well, that would just mean they suck worse than that, and that's not very news-worthy. So, every cheating allegation will be met with cries of jealousy, yet some cheating allegations are still found to be true. In one case already related to the Patriots, it was true. So...

 

[NashvilleOrange]

It's just annoying that they're not going to face serious punishment for cheating...again. I'm not jealous... most are not jealous. Why would I be jealous of someone repeatedly cheating? Jealous that I don't play for them? Psh. They haven't won a super bowl in over 10 years. This raises even more doubt that any of their success has come w/o cheating. Just imagine how much they've gotten away with...

 

[perdurabo]

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-football-physics-science-deflategate.html

News reports say that 11 of the 12 game balls used by the New England Patriots in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts were deflated, showing about 2 pounds per square inch (psi) less pressure than the 13 psi required by the rules, so it seems that the most bizarre sports scandal of recent memory is real. But there are still plenty of questions: why would a team deflate footballs? Could there be another explanation? And most importantly, what does physics tell us about all this?
For New England fans, the first priority is a search for an innocent explanation. After all, party balloons and car tires deflate during cold winter weather, so might a simple temperature difference be responsible for the change in inflation pressure?

The physics principle known as the ideal gas law tells us that a reduction in temperature leads to a reduction in pressure. The pressure of a confined gas multiplied by its volume is proportional to the number of molecules in the gas multiplied by the temperature. Maybe you remember the equation PV=nRT from your schooldays. So if you cool a gas while keeping its volume fixed, the pressure must decrease.

But we don't need equations to check this: we can demonstrate it directly. I got a couple of old footballs from Union College's athletic department, pumped them up and popped them in the freezer. After a night in the cold, the pressure was around 2psi lower, just like the Patriots' footballs—from about 19psi at the start (I slightly overinflated the balls by using the tire pump in my car) down to about 17 psi.

 

[shandeezy7]

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-football-physics-science-deflategate.html

News reports say that 11 of the 12 game balls used by the New England Patriots in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts were deflated, showing about 2 pounds per square inch (psi) less pressure than the 13 psi required by the rules, so it seems that the most bizarre sports scandal of recent memory is real. But there are still plenty of questions: why would a team deflate footballs? Could there be another explanation? And most importantly, what does physics tell us about all this?
For New England fans, the first priority is a search for an innocent explanation. After all, party balloons and car tires deflate during cold winter weather, so might a simple temperature difference be responsible for the change in inflation pressure?

The physics principle known as the ideal gas law tells us that a reduction in temperature leads to a reduction in pressure. The pressure of a confined gas multiplied by its volume is proportional to the number of molecules in the gas multiplied by the temperature. Maybe you remember the equation PV=nRT from your schooldays. So if you cool a gas while keeping its volume fixed, the pressure must decrease.

But we don't need equations to check this: we can demonstrate it directly. I got a couple of old footballs from Union College's athletic department, pumped them up and popped them in the freezer. After a night in the cold, the pressure was around 2psi lower, just like the Patriots' footballs—from about 19psi at the start (I slightly overinflated the balls by using the tire pump in my car) down to about 17 psi.

It's crazy how physics can only affect the footballs of one team. Physics...you so crazy.

 

[Tobias Funke]

It's crazy how physics can only affect the footballs of one team. Physics...you so crazy.

To be fair they never tested the Balls the colts used, and if they started closer to 13.5 they had a full pound of play to stay within the rules and 2 pounds would bring them to 11.5 which is less noticeable than 10.5 I imagine.

 

[shandeezy7]

To be fair they never tested the Balls the colts used, and if they started closer to 13.5 they had a full pound of play to stay within the rules and 2 pounds would bring them to 11.5 which is less noticeable than 10.5 I imagine.

At this point, we don't know if they tested the Colts footballs, do we? If we're making assumptions, I would assume they checked all the footballs at halftime though.

 

[dasher]

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-football-physics-science-deflategate.html

News reports say that 11 of the 12 game balls used by the New England Patriots in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts were deflated, showing about 2 pounds per square inch (psi) less pressure than the 13 psi required by the rules, so it seems that the most bizarre sports scandal of recent memory is real. But there are still plenty of questions: why would a team deflate footballs? Could there be another explanation? And most importantly, what does physics tell us about all this?
For New England fans, the first priority is a search for an innocent explanation. After all, party balloons and car tires deflate during cold winter weather, so might a simple temperature difference be responsible for the change in inflation pressure?

The physics principle known as the ideal gas law tells us that a reduction in temperature leads to a reduction in pressure. The pressure of a confined gas multiplied by its volume is proportional to the number of molecules in the gas multiplied by the temperature. Maybe you remember the equation PV=nRT from your schooldays. So if you cool a gas while keeping its volume fixed, the pressure must decrease.

But we don't need equations to check this: we can demonstrate it directly. I got a couple of old footballs from Union College's athletic department, pumped them up and popped them in the freezer. After a night in the cold, the pressure was around 2psi lower, just like the Patriots' footballs—from about 19psi at the start (I slightly overinflated the balls by using the tire pump in my car) down to about 17 psi.

what about the colts footballs? Why didn't they lose psi?

 

[dasher]

At this point, we don't know if they tested the Colts footballs, do we? If we're making assumptions, I would assume they checked all the footballs at halftime though.

according to the nfl, they did check the colts balls before the game.

 

[Tobias Funke]

At this point, we don't know if they tested the Colts footballs, do we? If we're making assumptions, I would assume they checked all the footballs at halftime though.

Considering the NFL hasn't actually said much of anything we don't know what the PSI of the 11 balls were either just that at least one was 2 pounds less. I wouldn't assume they checked all of the balls as there was no complaint filed against the Colts. If a manager requests that a players bat be checked in baseball they don't check everyone's bat. My guess is that it is similar in football. Regardless of what side you fall on in this argument you have to want the NFL to step up and say something to shed some light on what exactly was determined how it was tested and finally if the refs followed protocol prior to the game.

 

[Tobias Funke]

according to the nfl, they did check the colts balls before the game.

Point is they may not have mid way. They really should have as it can go create a control to see if weather had an impact.

 

[KaiserUEO]

what about the colts footballs? Why didn't they lose psi?

if you listened to the post game, God received a lot of thanks. he was rooting for the patsys.

the devil deflated the balls in an effort to prove impropriety.

 

[JoeSU]

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-football-physics-science-deflategate.html

News reports say that 11 of the 12 game balls used by the New England Patriots in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts were deflated, showing about 2 pounds per square inch (psi) less pressure than the 13 psi required by the rules, so it seems that the most bizarre sports scandal of recent memory is real. But there are still plenty of questions: why would a team deflate footballs? Could there be another explanation? And most importantly, what does physics tell us about all this?
For New England fans, the first priority is a search for an innocent explanation. After all, party balloons and car tires deflate during cold winter weather, so might a simple temperature difference be responsible for the change in inflation pressure?

The physics principle known as the ideal gas law tells us that a reduction in temperature leads to a reduction in pressure. The pressure of a confined gas multiplied by its volume is proportional to the number of molecules in the gas multiplied by the temperature. Maybe you remember the equation PV=nRT from your schooldays. So if you cool a gas while keeping its volume fixed, the pressure must decrease.

But we don't need equations to check this: we can demonstrate it directly. I got a couple of old footballs from Union College's athletic department, pumped them up and popped them in the freezer. After a night in the cold, the pressure was around 2psi lower, just like the Patriots' footballs—from about 19psi at the start (I slightly overinflated the balls by using the tire pump in my car) down to about 17 psi.

I admire your spirit of experimenting, but the applicable principle is Gay-Lussac's Law:
for a fixed volume (P1/T1=P2/T2), where T is measured in absolute temperature (degrees K).
If the balls were inflated to the minimum allowable pressure (12.5 psi) indoors at room temperature (72 F), and subsequently allowed to equilibrate outdoors at 37 degrees F (approx. game time temp.) the resultant pressure would be about 11.7 psi (i.e., a 0.8 psi difference).
Your results are skewed because you started at 19psi, and your freezer lowered the temperature to 0 F, neither or which mimic real world conditions.(you can do the math)

The NFL must be aware of the physics involved, and 2 psi is outside the range of what the P-T relationship would predict.