Tom Brady

[Toga]

I admire your spirit of experimenting, but the applicable principle is Gay-Lussac's Law:
for a fixed volume (P1/T1=P2/T2), where T is measured in absolute temperature (degrees K).
If the balls were inflated to the minimum allowable pressure (12.5 psi) indoors at room temperature (72 ), and subsequently allowed to equilibrate outdoors at 37 degrees (approx. game time temp.) the resultant pressure would be about 11.7 psi (i.e., a 0.8 psi difference).
Your results are skewed because you started at 19psi, and your freezer lowered the temperature to 0 , neither or which mimic real world conditions.(you can do the math)

The NFL must be aware of the physics involved, and 2 psi is outside the range of what the P-T relationship would predict.

Well that's just like your opinion man.

 

[orange79]

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-football-physics-science-deflategate.html

News reports say that 11 of the 12 game balls used by the New England Patriots in their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts were deflated, showing about 2 pounds per square inch (psi) less pressure than the 13 psi required by the rules, so it seems that the most bizarre sports scandal of recent memory is real. But there are still plenty of questions: why would a team deflate footballs? Could there be another explanation? And most importantly, what does physics tell us about all this?
For New England fans, the first priority is a search for an innocent explanation. After all, party balloons and car tires deflate during cold winter weather, so might a simple temperature difference be responsible for the change in inflation pressure?

The physics principle known as the ideal gas law tells us that a reduction in temperature leads to a reduction in pressure. The pressure of a confined gas multiplied by its volume is proportional to the number of molecules in the gas multiplied by the temperature. Maybe you remember the equation PV=nRT from your schooldays. So if you cool a gas while keeping its volume fixed, the pressure must decrease.

But we don't need equations to check this: we can demonstrate it directly. I got a couple of old footballs from Union College's athletic department, pumped them up and popped them in the freezer. After a night in the cold, the pressure was around 2psi lower, just like the Patriots' footballs—from about 19psi at the start (I slightly overinflated the balls by using the tire pump in my car) down to about 17 psi.

Problem with Mr. Wizard's 'experiment' - for most of the game, the temperature was in the low 50's. Hardly 'freezer' weather.

 

[GoSU96]

As a Saints fan, you wouldn't be frustrated to see Belichick and Brady skate yet again not long after Sean Payton and players were suspended for an entire season for less?

Let's see, doctoring balls and intentionally trying to injure players, yep totally the same thing.

 

[GoSU96]

On this point, it's more likely that cheating would not be widely known within the organization...the two instances we have so far publicly acknowledged (one convicted, one alleged) were probably kept in a very small circle.

And, to bolster your argument, the minute Mangini was out of there he blew the whistle on the taping thing, so he must have been involved in that? (I dunno)

To counter your point...anytime anyone accuses another entity of cheating, there's going to be an argument that they were jealous. Because, if they were cheating a losing, well, that would just mean they suck worse than that, and that's not very news-worthy. So, every cheating allegation will be met with cries of jealousy, yet some cheating allegations are still found to be true. In one case already related to the Patriots, it was true. So...

The hysterical overaction, that's the resentment and jealously.

Here's the deal, Brady's good, because he's really good. You can't cheat your way to that career, just like the Pats can't have cheated their way to that record. It can't be done. One game, sure, but over what, 15 years, NFW.

 

[GoSU96]

It's crazy how physics can only affect the footballs of one team. Physics...you so crazy.

That's assuming they were the same pressure to start. Maybe Luck likes them overpumped like Rodgers.

 

[Alsacs]

The Patriots don't deserve any benefits of the doubt, but the overreaction to this story has embarrassed this country.

They should get their punishment and be ridiculed, but the stuff coming out of players, fans mouths is pure hatred of the Patriots. Nothing short of Belichick suspended/fired will be acceptable. At this point just enjoy hating them.

I hate how #hotsportztake this country has become.
Check this out
Networks Combine For Two Minutes on Fall of Yemen’s Government; Spent 11 Minutes on Deflategate.

 

[Alsacs]

I waiting for Bill Belichick to be held responsible for 9/11, being the second gunman on the grassy knoll, convincing George W.Bush that Iraq had WMDs, and of course being found to have parked in a handicapped spots all the time.

 

[rrlbees]

Silly. and I think you know that. If there was this wide spread cheating, guys that left them would be droping dimes. This is 100% about jealousy. People hate it when one team dominates as they have for 15 years. They are always good. Just thinking about this today about whether my opinion might be different if the Giants had lost both games or even one. It's funny. When your guy does it, it's game men ship. When the other guy does it, it's cheating. Is it cheating to pretend you were hit by a pitch when you weren't?

Would that include the parade of QBs on TV today saying nobody effs with the balls without the QB knowing about it? Troy Aikman flat out said they were lying.

 

[orangenirvana]

Let's see, doctoring balls and intentionally trying to injure players, yep totally the same thing.

So cheating is perfectly okay to you?

 

[bevosu]

The only redeeming value of this whole goofy controversy is..when and if the NCAA drops the hammer on us everybody will be preoccupied with the deflated football story.

I hope the talking heads beat it death over the next week or so.

 

[CanadianSU]

Like it mattered...

 

[Ghost]

Baseball usually suspends you for 1/16th of the season if you're caught doctoring balls - the NFL should suspend Brady for one game. Sadly, it would be the Super Bowl, but oh well.

 

[GoSU96]

So cheating is perfectly okay to you?

Is that what I said?

You're the one equating a multi party, management involved, incentive program to intentionally harm other players with the equivalent of having too deep a pocket on a lacrosse stick or too much curve on a hockey stick.

If you find it during a game, assess a 15yd unsportsmanlike, otherwise move on, it's piddly nothing.

 

[qdawgg]

no resentment or jealousy here.

just pointing out that brady is a cheating loser who cant win without being given an advantage.

how soon before we find out that his helmet headphone never gets turned off???

"pressure coming!!! step up and to the right, look deep left!!!"

death, taxes and the patsys cheating.

Keep going, you can't sound like a bigger cry baby then you already do. I thought you had more respect for yourself but you've reached an all time low in this thread.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Got to love the Pats. Closest thing to the Spankees

lol, actually they're more like the Red Sox. Someone is going to be the scapegoat and we'll soon be reading about it in the Boston Globe. History shows the folks in Boston like to run their great players into the ground after they boot them out the door.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not sure why everybody hates Brady. Other than probably jealousy.

I LOVE him for taking that safety early on in the SB, and putting up only a combined 31 pts. in 2 Super Bowl games against my Giants. He's a cupcake. It's Randall Cunningham and Jeff Garcia who had me vexed. Brady never gave us any problems.

 

[qdawgg]

I LOVE him for taking that safety early on in the SB, and putting up only a combined 31 pts. in 2 Super Bowl games against my Giants. He's a cupcake. It's Randall Cunningham and Jeff Garcia who had me vexed. Brady never gave us any problems.

Not sure what this has to do with lots of people being jealous of him?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Keep going, you can't sound like a bigger cry baby then you already do explain. I thought you had more respect for yourself explain but you've reached an all time low in this thread explain.

im waiting...

 

[mountaincuse]

I understand what the current rule is. I'm suggesting that they change it. It removes all of the variables if you have both teams play with the same ball. It evens the playing field if there is cheating.

You don't change the rules because someone cheats. You just enforce the freaking rule that was broken and punish the guilty.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not sure what this has to do with lots of people being jealous of him?

Just coming from the perspective of a Giants fan...he's the guy we always beat. No jealousy at all. I hope he loses to Seattle and then gets suspended for cheating.

Belichick too, and he's the best DC in Giants history. Ring that suspension up! Longer than Sean Payton's too!

 

[mountaincuse]

Keep going, you can't sound like a bigger cry baby then you already do. I thought you had more respect for yourself but you've reached an all time low in this thread.

I do not believe he is jealous of the 2 SB trophies that Eli has hoisted after beating Brady.

His posts are more about calling out a cheater, who he cannot respect.

 

[Bambrewer]

http://patskrieg.com/2015/01/23/31-reasons-to-get-off-your-high-horse-nfl/


Though some of these are just funny and not actually cheating there is plenty of history of ball tampering outlined in this... That is why the NFL has a 25,000 fine for ball tampering and a 20000 for grabbing your crotch in the end zone. Its not a strip you wins, fire your coach, suspend your qb ban your team kinda offense

 

[orangenirvana]

Is that what I said?

You're the one equating a multi party, management involved, incentive program to intentionally harm other players with the equivalent of having too deep a pocket on a lacrosse stick or too much curve on a hockey stick.

If you find it during a game, assess a 15yd unsportsmanlike, otherwise move on, it's piddly nothing.

It's a significantly bigger deal than what you're portraying it as especially with Spygate in mind but to each their own I guess.

 

[midloviking]

[QUOTE="Tobias Funke, post: 1271942, member: 850" I think we have a source that said 11 of 12 were under 12.5 up to 2 pounds less.[/QUOTE]

If The Patriots cheated, this makes sense. The 12th ball would be marked in some way for quick identification to be used for kicking plays only. They certainly wouldn't want to use an under-inflated ball for field goals, x-points or kick-offs now would they. I think if this is in fact true that it makes it more likely that the footballs were purposely altered.

I would suspect that neither Belichick or Brady directly told the equipment personnel to under-inflate the balls. But I certainly imagine them saying that they prefer the footballs at a particular PSI within the equipment guys hearing - "Hey coach, I really really really like the football PSI set directly at 10.0 PSI " <wink, wink>. Both Belichick and Brady can deny this all they want and there would be no one to testify that they were directly told to under-inflate the footballs.

If the equipment guy altered the PSI of the balls on the sideline it would have been easy enough to do with this device. http://www.mikasasports.com/store/store.php/products/ag500-digital-air-pressure-gauge

It has a slow release valve so you can quickly and accurately drop the pressure. It would be easy enough to hide in a pocket or under a towel.

I still think this whole operation is about fumbling and not throwing/catching as most everyone else seems to thing. This article is very compelling. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

I think Belicheck cheats for the same reason A-Rod cheated. Either insecurity about being able to win cleanly or trying to ensure he is remembered as the greatest of all time or BOTH.

It wouldn't surprise me if Belichick cheated in Super Bowl 25. The Giants defense was "magical" against the Bills offensive juggernaut. Time of possession, Giants - 40:33, Bills - 19:27. Belichick had his work cut out for him after the Bills throttled the Raiders 51-3. I doubt you'll ever get an admission of cheating from anyone on a Super Bowl winning team.

"The Bills were heavily favored to win Super Bowl XXV. Most experts expected that the Giants' defense would not be able to contain the Bills' turbo-charged no-huddle offense, which had scored 95 points in 2 playoff games. Many also questioned how effective the Giants' offense would be after failing to score a single touchdown in the NFC Championship Game. Also, in Week 15 of the regular season, the two teams met at Giants Stadium, where the Bills defeated the Giants 17–13." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXV

 

[Toga]

[QUOTE="Tobias Funke, post: 1271942, member: 850" I think we have a source that said 11 of 12 were under 12.5 up to 2 pounds less.

If The Patriots cheated, this makes sense. The 12th ball would be marked in some way for quick identification to be used for kicking plays only. They certainly wouldn't want to use an under-inflated ball for field goals, x-points or kick-offs now would they. I think if this is in fact true that it makes it more likely that the footballs were purposely altered.

I would suspect that neither Belichick or Brady directly told the equipment personnel to under-inflate the balls. But I certainly imagine them saying that they prefer the footballs at a particular PSI within the equipment guys hearing - "Hey coach, I really really really like the football PSI set directly at 10.0 PSI " <wink, wink>. Both Belichick and Brady can deny this all they want and there would be no one to testify that they were directly told to under-inflate the footballs.

If the equipment guy altered the PSI of the balls on the sideline it would have been easy enough to do with this device. http://www.mikasasports.com/store/store.php/products/ag500-digital-air-pressure-gauge

It has a slow release valve so you can quickly and accurately drop the pressure. It would be easy enough to hide in a pocket or under a towel.

I still think this whole operation is about fumbling and not throwing/catching as most everyone else seems to thing. This article is very compelling. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

I think Belicheck cheats for the same reason A-Rod cheated. Either insecurity about being able to win cleanly or trying to ensure he is remembered as the greatest of all time or BOTH.

It wouldn't surprise me if Belichick cheated in Super Bowl 25. The Giants defense was "magical" against the Bills offensive juggernaut. Time of possession, Giants - 40:33, Bills - 19:27. Belichick had his work cut out for him after the Bills throttled the Raiders 51-3. I doubt you'll ever get an admission of cheating from anyone on a Super Bowl winning team.

"The Bills were heavily favored to win Super Bowl XXV. Most experts expected that the Giants' defense would not be able to contain the Bills' turbo-charged no-huddle offense, which had scored 95 points in 2 playoff games. Many also questioned how effective the Giants' offense would be after failing to score a single touchdown in the NFC Championship Game. Also, in Week 15 of the regular season, the two teams met at Giants Stadium, where the Bills defeated the Giants 17–13." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXV[/QUOTE]
I think the wink wink plausible deniability is far and away the most likely thing that happened.