Tom Brady | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Tom Brady

[QUOTE="Tobias Funke, post: 1271942, member: 850" I think we have a source that said 11 of 12 were under 12.5 up to 2 pounds less.

If The Patriots cheated, this makes sense. The 12th ball would be marked in some way for quick identification to be used for kicking plays only. They certainly wouldn't want to use an under-inflated ball for field goals, x-points or kick-offs now would they. I think if this is in fact true that it makes it more likely that the footballs were purposely altered.

I would suspect that neither Belichick or Brady directly told the equipment personnel to under-inflate the balls. But I certainly imagine them saying that they prefer the footballs at a particular PSI within the equipment guys hearing - "Hey coach, I really really really like the football PSI set directly at 10.0 PSI " <wink, wink>. Both Belichick and Brady can deny this all they want and there would be no one to testify that they were directly told to under-inflate the footballs.

If the equipment guy altered the PSI of the balls on the sideline it would have been easy enough to do with this device. http://www.mikasasports.com/store/store.php/products/ag500-digital-air-pressure-gauge

AG500.png



It has a slow release valve so you can quickly and accurately drop the pressure. It would be easy enough to hide in a pocket or under a towel.

I still think this whole operation is about fumbling and not throwing/catching as most everyone else seems to thing. This article is very compelling. http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

I think Belicheck cheats for the same reason A-Rod cheated. Either insecurity about being able to win cleanly or trying to ensure he is remembered as the greatest of all time or BOTH.

It wouldn't surprise me if Belichick cheated in Super Bowl 25. The Giants defense was "magical" against the Bills offensive juggernaut. Time of possession, Giants - 40:33, Bills - 19:27. Belichick had his work cut out for him after the Bills throttled the Raiders 51-3. I doubt you'll ever get an admission of cheating from anyone on a Super Bowl winning team.

"The Bills were heavily favored to win Super Bowl XXV. Most experts expected that the Giants' defense would not be able to contain the Bills' turbo-charged no-huddle offense, which had scored 95 points in 2 playoff games. Many also questioned how effective the Giants' offense would be after failing to score a single touchdown in the NFC Championship Game. Also, in Week 15 of the regular season, the two teams met at Giants Stadium, where the Bills defeated the Giants 17–13."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXV[/QUOTE]
just how did belicheat, cheat in 25??

how is he responsible for the Giants offense controling the clock for 40:33??

how is he responsible for the Giants 172yds of rushing offense??

how is he responsible for the Giants converting 9/16 on 3rd down??

how is he responsible for Mark Ingram Sr breaking 75 tackles on 3rd & 13 to get 14yds??

how is he reponsible for the Giants anemic offense v the 2x defending champ 49ers in the NFC Title game??

how is he responsible for Phil Simms breaking his foot v the bills in week 15, basically ruining the season??

wait, THATS IT!!!! belichick that , he broke Simms foot!! he didnt want the Giants to win!!! Son of Blitch, that basturd. he was cheating for the Bills!!

so why is his defensive game plan for Supe 25 in the Hall of Fame???

so confused......
 
How?
Well, for one the football and how it's handled is more critical to how the outcome of a football game is determined than anything in any other sport. To compare it to a player having a deep net on a lacrosse stick or a hockey stick is laughable.

B7-v-zhCUAAAqqA.jpg:large


We're seeing former NFL players and current national media members saying that they'll never see the *Patriots the same way ever again.

Stop pretending that this isn't a huge deal.
 
[QUOTE="just how did belicheat, cheat in 25??

how is he responsible for the Giants offense controling the clock for 40:33??

how is he responsible for the Giants 172yds of rushing offense??

how is he responsible for the Giants converting 9/16 on 3rd down??

how is he responsible for Mark Ingram Sr breaking 75 tackles on 3rd & 13 to get 14yds??

how is he reponsible for the Giants anemic offense v the 2x defending champ 49ers in the NFC Title game??

how is he responsible for Phil Simms breaking his foot v the bills in week 15, basically ruining the season??

wait, THATS IT!!!! belichick that , he broke Simms foot!! he didnt want the Giants to win!!! Son of Blitch, that basturd. he was cheating for the Bills!!

so why is his defensive game plan for Supe 25 in the Hall of Fame???

so confused...[/QUOTE]


Well, if they were spying on the Buffalo offense, they might have spied on the defense as well. Duh, there was a lot riding on that game. If he was going to cheat to win then I would think he was all in.

I wouldn't expect a Giants fan to think this was a reasonable scenario. But I find it laughable that Giants fans are all outraged at Belichick as a cheater now but scoff at the possibility he cheated as their sainted defensive coordinator. I'm not saying he cheated for the Giants during Super Bowl 25, I'm saying you cannot definitively say he didn't either. Like I said, I don't think you'll get anyone affiliated with the Giants to admit to cheating because it would taint the Super Bowl win for everyone. If a was a Giants fan I wouldn't sleep as comfortably with the knowledge that my guys had to cheat to win.
 
[QUOTE="just how did belicheat, cheat in 25??

how is he responsible for the Giants offense controling the clock for 40:33??

how is he responsible for the Giants 172yds of rushing offense??

how is he responsible for the Giants converting 9/16 on 3rd down??

how is he responsible for Mark Ingram Sr breaking 75 tackles on 3rd & 13 to get 14yds??

how is he reponsible for the Giants anemic offense v the 2x defending champ 49ers in the NFC Title game??

how is he responsible for Phil Simms breaking his foot v the bills in week 15, basically ruining the season??

wait, THATS IT!!!! belichick that , he broke Simms foot!! he didnt want the Giants to win!!! Son of Blitch, that basturd. he was cheating for the Bills!!

so why is his defensive game plan for Supe 25 in the Hall of Fame???

so confused...


Well, if they were spying on the Buffalo offense, they might have spied on the defense as well. Duh, there was a lot riding on that game. If he was going to cheat to win then I would think he was all in.

I wouldn't expect a Giants fan to think this was a reasonable scenario. But I find it laughable that Giants fans are all outraged at Belichick as a cheater now but scoff at the possibility he cheated as their sainted defensive coordinator. I'm not saying he cheated for the Giants during Super Bowl 25, I'm saying you cannot definitively say he didn't either. Like I said, I don't think you'll get anyone affiliated with the Giants to admit to cheating because it would taint the Super Bowl win for everyone. If a was a Giants fan I wouldn't sleep as comfortably with the knowledge that my guys had to cheat to win.[/QUOTE]

absolutely insane.

id prefer you just claim that he was taping the bills K-gun signals. that would at least make sense.

there was not 2 weeks between games that year, if he had the time to break down the bills defense...AFTER breaking down the bills offense...and find a way to cheat...then he should just move into the HOF himself. bring a cot, a tv...whatever.

be a permanent live display. just tell us how you do it. the good, the bad, the ugly...the cheat...everyphuckingthing.

i want to know...for that is pure genius.

on the edit: speaking of genius, you clearly arent. just what the did you do to that post??
 
midloviking said:
[QUOTE="just how did belicheat, cheat in 25??

how is he responsible for the Giants offense controling the clock for 40:33??

how is he responsible for the Giants 172yds of rushing offense??

how is he responsible for the Giants converting 9/16 on 3rd down??

how is he responsible for Mark Ingram Sr breaking 75 tackles on 3rd & 13 to get 14yds??

how is he reponsible for the Giants anemic offense v the 2x defending champ 49ers in the NFC Title game??

how is he responsible for Phil Simms breaking his foot v the bills in week 15, basically ruining the season??

wait, THATS IT!!!! belichick that , he broke Simms foot!! he didnt want the Giants to win!!! Son of Blitch, that basturd. he was cheating for the Bills!!

so why is his defensive game plan for Supe 25 in the Hall of Fame???

so confused...

Well, if they were spying on the Buffalo offense, they might have spied on the defense as well. Duh, there was a lot riding on that game. If he was going to cheat to win then I would think he was all in.

I wouldn't expect a Giants fan to think this was a reasonable scenario. But I find it laughable that Giants fans are all outraged at Belichick as a cheater now but scoff at the possibility he cheated as their sainted defensive coordinator. I'm not saying he cheated for the Giants during Super Bowl 25, I'm saying you cannot definitively say he didn't either. Like I said, I don't think you'll get anyone affiliated with the Giants to admit to cheating because it would taint the Super Bowl win for everyone. If a was a Giants fan I wouldn't sleep as comfortably with the knowledge that my guys had to cheat to win.[/QUOTE]

I dont understand the logic. So week 15 they hold the bills to less points than they gave up in the SB to them, but he cheated?

If the offense hardly has the ball in a game its hard to cheat on.defense. the Bills basically scored a point for every minute they held the ball. Had the Giants offense not been as productive and dominated the clock, they probably would have scored more.

It seems like we are reaching now.
 
Well, for one the football and how it's handled is more critical to how the outcome of a football game is determined than anything in any other sport. To compare it to a player having a deep net on a lacrosse stick or a hockey stick is laughable.

B7-v-zhCUAAAqqA.jpg:large


We're seeing former NFL players and current national media members saying that they'll never see the *Patriots the same way ever again.

Stop pretending that this isn't a huge deal.
Ridley fumbled all the time. Against the Ravens in the divisional round the Pats put the ball on the field 3 times and recovered 2 of them and the 3rd Vereen was barely down.
Stop with this crap. Ridley was benched multiple times for fumbling. This mob just wants flesh from the Pats. Unless the Pats get overpunished the haters won't be happy.
 
Well, for one the football and how it's handled is more critical to how the outcome of a football game is determined than anything in any other sport. To compare it to a player having a deep net on a lacrosse stick or a hockey stick is laughable.

B7-v-zhCUAAAqqA.jpg:large


We're seeing former NFL players and current national media members saying that they'll never see the *Patriots the same way ever again.

Stop pretending that this isn't a huge deal.

It's not.
 
GoSU96 said:
It's not.

It kinda is.

The "dynasty" team of this era has been caught cheating, again. If they have been caught, it's safe to assume they have not been caught many other times.

What's more of a big deal in my opinion is how the NFL is handling this, especially after the poor way they have handled many other things recently. They are being exposed as an organization not really much different than the NCAA, FIFA, etc.
 
It kinda is.

The "dynasty" team of this era has been caught cheating, again. If they have been caught, it's safe to assume they have not been caught many other times.

What's more of a big deal in my opinion is how the NFL is handling this, especially after the poor way they have handled many other things recently. They are being exposed as an organization not really much different than the NCAA, FIFA, etc.
There is nothing that will satisfy you short of BB and Pats getting over punished.
I doubt you will watch today's BB press conference. He said that the Pats balls were inspected in a 75 degree indoor room and at practice they followed the same procedure and the balls lost 1.5 PSI lbs over the course of 2 hours outdoors after a 25 degree difference.

BB should be fired and the Pats should be banned forever. The rules were broken so the Pats should be punished but the over the top hatred and mob wanting blood has embarrassed this country.
 
Alsacs said:
There is nothing that will satisfy you short of BB and Pats getting over punished.
I doubt you will watch today's BB press conference. He said that the Pats balls were inspected in a 75 degree indoor room and at practice they followed the same procedure and the balls lost 1.5 PSI lbs over the course of 2 hours outdoors after a 25 degree difference.

BB should be fired and the Pats should be banned forever. The rules were broken so the Pats should be punished but the over the top hatred and mob wanting blood has embarrassed this country.

Where did I say that? They should be punished for breaking the rules, that's all. They shouldn't change the rule, they should punish those quilty of breaking it is all that I said.

He is full of BS, I think even realistic Pats fans can see that.
 
Well, if they were spying on the Buffalo offense, they might have spied on the defense as well. Duh, there was a lot riding on that game. If he was going to cheat to win then I would think he was all in.

I wouldn't expect a Giants fan to think this was a reasonable scenario. But I find it laughable that Giants fans are all outraged at Belichick as a cheater now but scoff at the possibility he cheated as their sainted defensive coordinator. I'm not saying he cheated for the Giants during Super Bowl 25, I'm saying you cannot definitively say he didn't either. Like I said, I don't think you'll get anyone affiliated with the Giants to admit to cheating because it would taint the Super Bowl win for everyone. If a was a Giants fan I wouldn't sleep as comfortably with the knowledge that my guys had to cheat to win.
absolutely insane.

id prefer you just claim that he was taping the bills K-gun signals. that would at least make sense.

there was not 2 weeks between games that year, if he had the time to break down the bills defense...AFTER breaking down the bills offense...and find a way to cheat...then he should just move into the HOF himself. bring a cot, a tv...whatever.

be a permanent live display. just tell us how you do it. the good, the bad, the ugly...the cheat...everyphuckingthing.

i want to know...for that is pure genius.

on the edit: speaking of genius, you clearly arent. just what the did you do to that post??[/QUOTE]


Like I said you can't argue with the church of Big Blue.
 
Even as a Patriots Conspiracy theorist, I'm already tired of this, which of course is exactly what both the NFL and the Patriots want. (Interviewed 40 people but not the QB because he'd need a Player's Union lawyer? Please)

So the balls were tested in a 75 degree room (is that where they host the players' grandmothers pre-game? 75 degrees?) and deflated over the 2 hours of game-time? I'm surprised then, that the back-up balls that were used in the 2H didn't deflate since they were out there about 2 hours and it only got colder as the night wore on. And as everyone's pointed out, the Colts balls, etc etc. (Obviously there's a lot of information missing there, but whatever).

They would love this to go away…but he wants to argue that they were the best team in the regular season and playoffs so far, but of course if they were cheating that could be a reason why? Someone mentioned the Ravens TE dropped a TD, while the Patriots barely dropped anything.

Whatever, the Commissioner is in Kraft's corner so nothing will come of this. Haven't interviewed the QB yet? What the hell is that law firm you hired doing? Are they the most incompetent lawyers in the world? Wouldn't you be mad if you were paying them $800 an hour?
 
There is nothing that will satisfy you short of BB and Pats getting over punished.
I doubt you will watch today's BB press conference. He said that the Pats balls were inspected in a 75 degree indoor room and at practice they followed the same procedure and the balls lost 1.5 PSI lbs over the course of 2 hours outdoors after a 25 degree difference.

BB should be fired and the Pats should be banned forever. The rules were broken so the Pats should be punished but the over the top hatred and mob wanting blood has embarrassed this country.
jdVWR.jpg
 
Even as a Patriots Conspiracy theorist, I'm already tired of this, which of course is exactly what both the NFL and the Patriots want. (Interviewed 40 people but not the QB because he'd need a Player's Union lawyer? Please)

So the balls were tested in a 75 degree room (is that where they host the players' grandmothers pre-game? 75 degrees?) and deflated over the 2 hours of game-time? I'm surprised then, that the back-up balls that were used in the 2H didn't deflate since they were out there about 2 hours and it only got colder as the night wore on. And as everyone's pointed out, the Colts balls, etc etc. (Obviously there's a lot of information missing there, but whatever).

They would love this to go away…but he wants to argue that they were the best team in the regular season and playoffs so far, but of course if they were cheating that could be a reason why? Someone mentioned the Ravens TE dropped a TD, while the Patriots barely dropped anything.

Whatever, the Commissioner is in Kraft's corner so nothing will come of this. Haven't interviewed the QB yet? What the hell is that law firm you hired doing? Are they the most incompetent lawyers in the world? Wouldn't you be mad if you were paying them $800 an hour?

Edelman alone had three drops in the ravens game. The example that a tight end dropped a pass is so idiotic.
 
Like I said you can't argue with the church of Big Blue.
Ha!!

Your position is akin to saying 'Anne Mara wears workbooks to bed'...and then telling Giants fans they are fools for not at least considering it.

Please.
 
Ha!!

Your position is akin to saying 'Anne Mara wears workbooks to bed'...and then telling Giants fans they are fools for not at least considering it.

Please.


So, Belichick was convicted for Spygate and looks to guilty in Delflategate, but there is absolutely no chance he cheated in Super Bowl 25. Ok.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

"After meeting with Goodell on February 13, 2008 Specter reported that Goodell told him that Belichick had been engaged in the practice since he became head coach of the Patriots in 2000." - No chance he engaged in this practice before the 2000 season then, correct?

"Belichick said he believed he was operating within the rules as long as the tape was not used during the same game." - looks like he's using the same playbook from Sypgate for Deflategate

"Specter also spoke of his own meeting with Walsh, who told Specter of a former Patriots offensive player who told Walsh about being called into a meeting with Belichick, Adams, and then-offensive coordinator Charlie Weis before a September 11, 2000 game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, at which point the player was instructed to memorize previously recorded defensive signals on tape, watch for the signals from the sidelines during the game, and relay them to Weis.[67] This, according to the player, allowed the Patriots to anticipate 75 percent of the defense's plays being called." - this would surely help with ball-control



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick

As the Commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress. [...] Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect. [...] With tonight's resolution, I will not be offering any further comments on this matter. We are moving on with our preparations for Sunday's game. - Belichick can't even tell the truth in his apologies.

"Belichick was married to Debby Clarke, but they divorced in the summer of 2006.[33] They allegedly separated before the 2004 season, which was disclosed by the Patriots in July 2005. Belichick was also accused of maintaining a relationship with former Giants receptionist Sharon Shenocca which helped precipitate her divorce.[34] Belichick was seen with Linda Holliday of Jupiter, Florida several times in Arizona during the week leading up to Super Bowl XLII.[35] Belichick also had Sharon Shenocca flown in for the game." - Bill Belichick is a pathological cheater
 
They must just work so much harder than every other team...

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...anely_low_number_of_fumbles.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

I spoke with a data scientist whom I know from work on NFLproject.com and sent him the data. He said:

"Based on the assumption that fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, you’d expect to see, according to random fluctuation, the results that the Patriots have gotten over this period, once in 16,233.77 instances.
"Which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win. [In] other words, it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence."

Ironically, as my study on Wednesday showed, the Patriots’ performance in wet weather home games mysteriously turned ridiculous starting in 2007. In 2006, they went 0–2. From 2007 onward, they went 14–1.

The next obvious question becomes: Where were the Patriots in this statistic pre-2007? Take a look:


150123_SNUT_Fumble-02.png.CROP.original-original.png


As you can see, the Patriots won their Super Bowls having a below-average rate of fumbles lost given today’s average of 105 plays per fumble lost. But in 2007, something happened to propel them to a much better rate. (You’ll remember, that just so happened to be the same year they went 16–0 in the regular season.) But even looking at these numbers, it’s clear how insane the 187 number is: They are almost running 100 more plays without a single fumble as compared with the 2002–2006 period when they won two of their three Super Bowls.

To further illustrate how these numbers are astonishing, the below graphic lays out clearly how far off the Patriots are from the rest of the league. The Patriots and their 187 plays per fumble lost is far from the bell-shaped curve:


150123_SNUT_Fumble-03.png.CROP.original-original.png
 
Meanwhile, HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours
and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment
to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,” the lab's report states.

Thought this was interesting from what appears to be an unbiased 3rd party
 
They must just work so much harder than every other team...

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...anely_low_number_of_fumbles.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

I spoke with a data scientist whom I know from work on NFLproject.com and sent him the data. He said:

"Based on the assumption that fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, you’d expect to see, according to random fluctuation, the results that the Patriots have gotten over this period, once in 16,233.77 instances.
"Which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win. [In] other words, it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence."

Ironically, as my study on Wednesday showed, the Patriots’ performance in wet weather home games mysteriously turned ridiculous starting in 2007. In 2006, they went 0–2. From 2007 onward, they went 14–1.

The next obvious question becomes: Where were the Patriots in this statistic pre-2007? Take a look:


150123_SNUT_Fumble-02.png.CROP.original-original.png


As you can see, the Patriots won their Super Bowls having a below-average rate of fumbles lost given today’s average of 105 plays per fumble lost. But in 2007, something happened to propel them to a much better rate. (You’ll remember, that just so happened to be the same year they went 16–0 in the regular season.) But even looking at these numbers, it’s clear how insane the 187 number is: They are almost running 100 more plays without a single fumble as compared with the 2002–2006 period when they won two of their three Super Bowls.

To further illustrate how these numbers are astonishing, the below graphic lays out clearly how far off the Patriots are from the rest of the league. The Patriots and their 187 plays per fumble lost is far from the bell-shaped curve:


150123_SNUT_Fumble-03.png.CROP.original-original.png

I would be curious to see relevant data regarding how many fumbles are lost on run plays vs. pass plays. After that I would look to see if New England shift in offensive philosophy in 2007 to a more pass heavy environment had an impact. I could be 100 percent wrong but it may have an impact. I have a hard time believing you can attribute those results to a pound or two in PSI specifically if we are to believe the difference is do drastic, how did it take 8 years to notice the issue.
 
Meanwhile, HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours
and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment
to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,” the lab's report states.

Thought this was interesting from what appears to be an unbiased 3rd party
11 of the 12 *Pats footballs dropped two pounds each. 0 of the 12 Colts footballs dropped in any measure.

Just another incredible "coincidence".

Meanwhile...

http://nypost.com/2015/01/25/bill-nye-torches-belichick-explanation-didnt-make-any-sense/

 
Meanwhile, HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours
and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment
to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,” the lab's report states.

Thought this was interesting from what appears to be an unbiased 3rd party
Why did they inflate in the 2nd half? If NE re-inflated them, would they not have deflated again? Why dkd only NE's deflate? Mmmm
 
Why did they inflate in the 2nd half? If NE re-inflated them, would they not have deflated again? Why dkd only NE's deflate? Mmmm

I could be wrong here, but i haven't seen it clarified so correct me if you have seen it. Nobody has referenced that they measured the Colts balls after the initial measurement. We also don't know what that initial measurement was, so it is possible that the Colts could have come in at 13.5 on initial reading this giving more room to come down. As for the second set of balls I believe the referees re-checked them at halftime and ensures they were up to standard, meaning that they could have re-inflated and this would have been likely done at halftime without a long resting period indoors. A lot of "ifs" but the NFL hasnt been entirely forthcoming here.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
170,325
Messages
4,885,108
Members
5,991
Latest member
CStalks14

Online statistics

Members online
169
Guests online
1,089
Total visitors
1,258


...
Top Bottom