Tucker

[Chip]

They got behind the chains too often with penalties in the second half. Shrader also pulled the ball. There was one particular play where I thought Tucker would have got a good chunk of yards hadnt Shrader kept it himself.

Does that make you feel better that it was “addressed” after the game?

Guess there was nothing he could say. Too many penalties, Clemson D is too good, Shrader calls his own number too much, Tucker is hurt, backup RBs aren’t game ready. Perfect storm.

 

[Trueblue25]

Today’s Seab’s 21st I believe

 

[money3189]

Does that make you feel better that it was “addressed” after the game?

Guess there was nothing he could say. Too many penalties, Clemson D is too good, Shrader calls his own number too much, Tucker is hurt, backup RBs aren’t game ready. Perfect storm.

No but I understand that you can talk about it, plan and adjust at half. It doesn't mean it will play out the way you were hoping. When you are put in different situations. It alters your plan.

 

[SUbear]

Dino in the post-game said we were running a lot of read-option and Clemson kept taking the RB. I had to listen to the game on the radio so I don't know if that's accurate

Not in the second half, they switched to playing Schrader for whatever reason and it worked. The personal fouls on us were the killers though.

 

[SUbear]

I mean, if he's healthy enough to get the ball then you've got to find ways to give him the ball more. If he's not healthy enough to get the ball, then you've got to put someone in there who can take some handoffs at some point.

"Our guy is really good but he's too hurt to run the ball so we have to leave him in because he's good but never give him the ball because he's too hurt," makes NO sense unless they're respecting him so much as a decoy it's opening other stuff up.

I do not think that using him as a decoy will work any more, defensive coaches can see he is being underutilized for whatever reason.

 

[David321]

Wonder if Anae should throw in a triple option wrinkle with rolling Tucker and Allen at the same time? That could wreck havoc on ND’s defense.

 

[money3189]

I do not think that using him as a decoy will work any more, defensive coaches can see he is being underutilized for whatever reason.

Its not really a decoy. QB's are taught to read a specific player on their read option plays. The scheme itself is how they get their rush yards. Tucker also gets his yards from the threat of Shrader's running. It makes it so that defenses cant over commit to specific gaps.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Our RBs averaged like 8+ ypc. We couldn't move the ball in the second half. Why weren't they at least trying to run with our RBs?

Clemson handed us this game for 3 quarters, and then we couldn't do anything, so they took it right back.

Me as the game wound down

 

[NineOneSeven]

Wonder if Anae should throw in a triple option wrinkle with rolling Tucker and Allen at the same time? That could wreck havoc on ND’s defense.

Sounds like a recipe for penalties.

 

[Chip]

No but I understand that you can talk about it, plan and adjust at half. It doesn't mean it will play out the way you were hoping. When you are put in different situations. It alters your plan.

I'm not even all that upset about the 2nd half offense. I know how good Clemson's D is, especially in Death Valley, after getting some momentum.

Just thought it was a weird way for Dino to address the topic. And I know I'm nitpicking. Win this week and it solves everything.

 

[money3189]

I'm not even all that upset about the 2nd half offense. I know how good Clemson's D is, especially in Death Valley, after getting some momentum.

Just thought it was a weird way for Dino to address the topic. And I know I'm nitpicking. Win this week and it solves everything.

Gotcha.

 

[SUbear]

Its not really a decoy. QB's are taught to read a specific player on their read option plays. The scheme itself is how they get their rush yards. Tucker also gets his yards from the threat of Shrader's running. It makes it so that defenses cant over commit to specific gaps.

yes but when you realize the RB is not going to keep the ball, you start playing the QB predominantly as the greater threat. If you do not want to call him a decoy, and he is still the RB but not getting the carries, explain to me why he would be in the game? Splitting hairs to say he is not being used as a decoy.

 

[DilemaCuse]

I personally believe he was injured early against Louisville and he’s been playing on a bad wheel all year.

Tough guy.

I dont disagree w this

He lacked a burst against Uconn and Purdue, didnt rush the ball w the lead against Purdue late, that was telling

But then why run him 23 times against Wagner??? Thats the game you give him 5-10 carries max

 

[money3189]

yes but when you realize the RB is not going to keep the ball, you start playing the QB predominantly as the greater threat. If you do not want to call him a decoy, and he is still the RB but not getting the carries, explain to me why he would be in the game? Splitting hairs to say he is not being used as a decoy.

I'm not saying Tucker doesnt need to get more carries. I'm just explaining to you how read option works. I just explained it. They read specific players on the defense. It also eliminates at least one defender in the box because they have to account for the QB.

Edit if the defense starts playing the QB then it should open up the lanes for the RB.

 

[SUbear]

I'm not saying Tucker doesnt need to get more carries. I'm just explaining to you how read option works. I just explained it. They read specific players on the defense. It also eliminates at least one defender in the box because they have to account for the QB.

Edit if the defense starts playing the QB then it should open up the lanes for the RB.

Thery quit playing the RB and were totally selling out to stop Shrader, they made an adjustment at the half because they realized his carries were what had hurt them the most. You seem to think defenses can not situationally adjust their reads to what happens in the game. Tucker was not getting the ball and they no longer read that he would/might. You think they might have realized he was being used as a decoy?

 

[sufandu]

Its not really a decoy. QB's are taught to read a specific player on their read option plays. The scheme itself is how they get their rush yards. Tucker also gets his yards from the threat of Shrader's running. It makes it so that defenses cant over commit to specific gaps.

It is if Shrader is being told to keep it to reduce Tucker's load right now. I'm not saying this is what's happening, but it wouldn't surprise me right now. I also seem to remember Shrader having a tendency to keep it last year at times when he should've given it.

 

[orangencpolice]

That's just it. The coaches don't think they're serviceable. If they did, they'd use them. Has Price seen action on offense outside of the Wagner game?

I know they see Allen and Price in practice every day, but if your star running back is hurt, you have to give the other guys a chance to see what they can do in game time situations. If they don’t produce after given the opportunities, then take them out the game. It would be nice to have Jarveon Howard right now to back up Sean.

 

[PhatOrange]

If Tucker is banged up, then play the other guy. He certainly seems fast enough (albeit weak in the pass blocking game).

We are playing a hurt / banged up former Heisman candidate as a decoy so that he can showcase for NFL scouts in his 'last season' while he probably won't even be 1st team ACC at this point? This does not make sense. Why would we do this?

However, I had not noticed him tapping out, until y'all mentioned it. That actually is the only thing that makes sense as to why he got so few touches against Clemson. Definitely appreciate the board for pointing this out. He has seemed banged up all season, but he keeps playing, so I assumed they were minor injuries.

I am not sure what he gains this year by continuing this gambit.

Need to play Allen b/c we cannot succeed as a team without a running game. In the 2nd half, our last series netted 45 yards, and the 6 series preceding it also netted around 45 yards. This just will not work.


Tucker touches - 5 run, 6 receiving targets
12 series overall - 7 w Tucker Touches, 5 without

1st quarter, 1st series (1 Tucker run, 3 Tucker Targets)

1. 2nd & 4 at CLEM 43 - (13:30 - 1st) Garrett Shrader pass complete to Sean Tucker for 2 yds to the Clem 41
2. 1st & 10 at CLEM 35 - (12:16 - 1st) Sean Tucker run for 6 yds to the Clem 29
3. 2nd & 4 at CLEM 29 - (11:43 - 1st) Garrett Shrader pass complete to Sean Tucker for a loss of 2 yards to the Clem 31
4. 3rd & 6 at CLEM 31 - (11:10 - 1st) Garrett Shrader pass complete to Sean Tucker for 3 yds to the Clem 28

On 4th & 3, Smyzt misses a field goal, but Dino had called a timeout, and then decides to go for it, but the pass falls incomplete.

1st quarter, 2nd series (1 Tucker Target)

1. 1st & 10 at CLEM 12 - (5:30 - 1st) Garrett Shrader pass complete to Sean Tucker for 12 yds for a TD, (Andre Szmyt KICK)

TOUCHDOWN SU

2nd quarter, 3rd series (0 Tucker Touches)

2nd quarter, 4th series (2 Tucker Runs)

1. 1st & 10 at SYR 44 - (4:01 - 2nd) Sean Tucker run for 13 yds to the Clem 43 for a 1ST down
2. 2nd & 2 at CLEM 4 - (1:59 - 2nd) Sean Tucker run for a loss of 3 yards to the Clem 7

TOUCHDOWN SU - their last score of the game

2nd quarter, 5th series (0 Tucker Touches) - kneel to end the half

2nd half

3rd quarter, 6th series (1 Tucker Target)

1. 2nd & 5 at SYR 24 - (10:42 - 3rd) Shrader, Garrett pass incomplete to Tucker, Sean, PENALTY SYRACUSE holding (Hoeh, Wes) 10 yards to the SYRACUSE14, NO PLAY.

3rd quarter, 7th series (1 Tucker Run)

1. 1st & 10 at SYR 20 - (8:58 - 3rd) Sean Tucker run for 23 yds to the Syrac 43 for a 1ST down

3rd quarter, 8th series (0 Tucker Touches)

4th quarter, 9th series (0 Tucker Touches)

4th quarter, 10th series (1 Tucker Run)

1. 1st & 10 at SYR 25 - (11:20 - 4th) Sean Tucker run for 15 yds to the Syrac 40 for a 1ST down

4th quarter, 11th series (0 Tucker Touches)

4th quarter, 12th series (1 Tucker Target)

1. 1st & 10 at SYR 48 - (0:43 - 4th) Garrett Shrader pass complete to Sean Tucker for 3 yds to the Clem 49

He's been tapping out all year and he did it last year to. People seem to forget Tucker being banged up and having some injuries in his first two seasons as well.

Where are we as a program if we don't have a capable #2 or even #3 back? That's fairly standard stuff.

He's gotten his most work this season against the two worst teams - UConn and Wagner.

Louisville - 21 carries
UConn - 27 carries
Purdue - 18 carries
Virginia - 21 carries
Wagner - 23 carries
NC State - 14 carries
Clemson - 5 carries (averaged over 10 yards a carry)

Other RBs
Louisville - Allen 3
UConn - Allen 7
Purdue -
Virginia - Allen 1
Wagner - Allen 4 / Price 5
NC State -
Clemson - Allen 1

 

[money3189]

Thery quit playing the RB and were totally selling out to stop Shrader, they made an adjustment at the half because they realized his carries were what had hurt them the most. You seem to think defenses can not situationally adjust their reads to what happens in the game. Tucker was not getting the ball and they no longer read that he would/might. You think they might have realized he was being used as a decoy?

When did I say defenses can’t adjust? I was explaining how read options work. I didn’t say anything about it being unstoppable. If Im explaining a iso play and how the FB is suppose to block the LB. Is that telling you it should work every time?

 

[money3189]

I know they see Allen and Price in practice every day, but if your star running back is hurt, you have to give the other guys a chance to see what they can do in game time situations. If they don’t produce after given the opportunities, then take them out the game. It would be nice to have Jarveon Howard right now to back up Sean.

I agree. I don’t get their system of RB rotation. I don’t know why they don’t let the other guys get a series here and there. Having a different style runner can throw off defenses.

 

[SuFTW]

He's been tapping out all year and he did it last year to. People seem to forget Tucker being banged up and having some inquires in his first two season as well.

Where are we as a program if we don't have a capable #2 or even #3 back.

He's gotten his most work this season against the two worst teams - UConn and Wagner.

Louisville - 21 carries
UConn - 27 carries
Purdue - 18 carries
Virginia - 21 carries
Wagner - 23 carries
NC State - 14 carries
Clemson - 5 carries (averaged over 10 yards a carry)

Other RBs
Louisville - Allen 3
UConn - Allen 7
Purdue -
Virginia - Allen 1
Wagner - Allen 4 / Price 5
NC State -
Clemson - Allen 1

I don’t remember Tucker tapping out that much last year, at least not as much as this year.

 

[Chip]

I'm not saying Tucker doesnt need to get more carries. I'm just explaining to you how read option works. I just explained it. They read specific players on the defense. It also eliminates at least one defender in the box because they have to account for the QB.

Edit if the defense starts playing the QB then it should open up the lanes for the RB.

Are you nervous that Shrader calls his own number too much, and it could be wearing him down as the game goes on?

That's something I kept wondering on Saturday.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I’ve got a bad feeling we’re still going to be taking about the Tucker soap opera long after the season ends. The signs were there from Game 1 when he took his first cheap shot.

Sean will finally reveal all in his new autobiography once he signs an NFL contract.

 

[pokercuse08]

We are playing a hurt / banged up former Heisman candidate as a decoy so that he can showcase for NFL scouts in his 'last season' while he probably won't even be 1st team ACC at this point?

I'm actually starting to wonder if it's going to be in Tucker's best interest to leave after this year. I saw a projection last week that had him going in the fifth round.

That's something like $4M over 4 years, with around $300K guaranteed. Realistically you're going to make something like $1.7M over 2 years for sure, and the rest is going to depend on your ability to stay on the roster.

Off a healthy year, he'd at least be a second round pick I think. Now you're looking at something like $7.3M over four years, but with more like $3.6M guaranteed. Realistically that's at least $4.3M over two years, and second round picks usually get at least three years to make it. So it's more like $5.5M over three years.

Playing hurt is lowering his draft value, he'd have been better off not playing and publicizing the injury. Of course that also makes him a team player, so I'm not knocking him for it or anything. Hopefully he can heal up before the end of the year and put a few games of film out at 100% and move his draft stock back up.

If not, I still doubt that he'll come back, but I think he could 2.5x to 3.5x his guaranteed money by doing so, and he could probably make a reasonable chunk off NIL next year.

 

[721Comstock]

Are you nervous that Shrader calls his own number too much, and it could be wearing him down as the game goes on?

That's something I kept wondering on Saturday.

GS calls his own # too often.
ED called his own # too often.

It's another parallel between the 2 players -
when you are a baller like that, you always think you can make a play, especially with your legs.

It is problematic for several reasons:

• the opposing D's adjust and focus on the QB, if there's never a handoff or pass
• which makes it less effective as games go on, as D's adjust to it
• the QB takes a lot more wear and tear always running it, hence injury risk
• teammates start to get PO'd that they never see the ball, or not as often as they should

It seems to me like our RPO is more like a RRO - seldom does GS pull it out, and then pass it.
It's either he hands it to Tuck, or he keeps it himself.

Which, again, doesn't fool the D after a while, and they can set up vs. the run, knowing we're unlikely to pass out of that look.