UCF feeling entitled

[OttoinGrotto]

there are many paths to a 10 + win season. one is lined with thorns another with daisies.
let's not reward those who the primrose path of cupcakes tread. give the crown to the battle tested. want more respect ? get off the porch and come out in the streets and earn it.

We're not taking about 10+ win seasons.

 

[tbonezone]

sorry. i chimed in on a strength of schedule thread. what are you discussing.

 

[sufandu]

Uh huh.

So it's fair for the committee to punish some teams for things that didn't actually happen.

That means what actually happens doesn't matter as much.

Nobody else has a problem with that?

I don't think UCF is the party that needs to change here.

They are not being punished. They are choosing to avoid a challenging schedule. There is a reason that rules exist against teams counting more than one win against an FCS team toward a bowl. Qualifications to participate in a playoff should be more stringent and it's impossible for them to be 100% objective. The only change that needs to be made at this point is for the playoff to expand to 8.

What happens does matter. It matters that they played no teams that in the final ranking of any poll. Being allowed to do that and play in a New Years 6 bowl is anything but punishment. If they don't like it, they shouldn't turn down games against UF or any other similar team when offered.

 

[Horn88]

Thanks for proving my point. I didn't say they've were mistreated but...

2018 Fighting Irish:
Undefaeated.
10 wins vs P5
2 wins vs G5
no games played vs FCS
Win over #7 Michigan
Win over #20 Syracuse (curb stomped us)
Win over #22 Northwestern.

Those are final rankings, not the fluid rankings that see teams drop 20 spots in 1 week. That's 3 wins over the top 25. Also wins over Pitt and Stanford who were no slouches this year. And yet, according to you, people think they don't belong. ND put together a CFP season, but that's exactly the kind of season you need to have on the outside looking in. UCF would need all that and more and will never get it in the AAC. They would have a better chance going indy and scheduling like ND every year.

I don't think I proved your point. I didn't say people thought they didn't belong. Everyone for the most part thought they belonged in which is why there was absolutely zero discussion on if they were in our out after the USC game.

I said people thought other teams were better, but that didn't matter because ND was more deserving based on their record against the schedule you laid out. So I guess you actually kinda ended up proving my point.

 

[sufandu]

Thanks for proving my point. I didn't say they've were mistreated but...

2018 Fighting Irish:
Undefaeated.
10 wins vs P5
2 wins vs G5
no games played vs FCS
Win over #7 Michigan
Win over #20 Syracuse (curb stomped us)
Win over #22 Northwestern.

Those are final rankings, not the fluid rankings that see teams drop 20 spots in 1 week. That's 3 wins over the top 25. Also wins over Pitt and Stanford who were no slouches this year. And yet, according to you, people think they don't belong. ND put together a CFP season, but that's exactly the kind of season you need to have on the outside looking in. UCF would need all that and more and will never get it in the AAC. They would have a better chance going indy and scheduling like ND every year.

And ND got in easily because of that. If UCF goes undefeated with a win over a top 15 team, I think they get in over Oklahoma. They have that chance with Florida, but don't want to take it. I think they like where they are.

 

[Horn88]

And ND got in easily because of that. If UCF goes undefeated with a win over a top 15 team, I think they get in over Oklahoma. They have that chance with Florida, but don't want to take it. I think they like where they are.

Exactly. What's easier to do?

A) Schedule UF and beat them then make the CFP and have to beat 2 top 4 teams to claim a national championship?

or

B) Play a cupcake schedule and beat a top 10-15 ranked team in a NY6 bowl and claim a national championship while saying you'd beat any and everyone knowing you'll never have to prove it?

 

[Pyle]

I don't think I proved your point. I didn't say people thought they didn't belong. Everyone for the most part thought they belonged in which is why there was absolutely zero discussion on if they were in our out after the USC game.

I said people thought other teams were better, but that didn't matter because ND was more deserving based on their record against the schedule you laid out. So I guess you actually kinda ended up proving my point.

Maybe I proved your point in the land of the illogical. Sorry but saying 3 teams are better but less deserving is talking our both sides of your mouth. Maybe there is a point there, but either you're not making it well or I'm not receiving it well. ND IMO is better than any 1 loss team period until proven otherwise, I don't care what a bunch of butt hurt SECXII homers say.

 

[Pyle]

And ND got in easily because of that. If UCF goes undefeated with a win over a top 15 team, I think they get in over Oklahoma. They have that chance with Florida, but don't want to take it. I think they like where they are.

Does ND get in without 3 wins in the top 25 and 1 in the top 10? No. Does UCF ever see that kind of schedule in the AAC? No.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Uh huh.

So it's fair for the committee to punish some teams for things that didn't actually happen.

That means what actually happens doesn't matter as much.

Nobody else has a problem with that?

I don't think UCF is the party that needs to change here.

They got hurt by the UNC game being cancelled. But even if they played you cannot overlook the two cupcakes. When you are in a conference of cupcakes you need to schedule strong OOC. This has been the MO since CFB was invented. Any G5 wanting a spot in the CFP should NEVER have an FCS opponent on their schedule. They need 2 P5 and then two games vs decent G5. Had UCF beated Pitt, UNC, WMU, BYU then you can piss and moan. Although IMO without their QB they shouldn’t have made it anyway.

 

[Horn88]

Maybe I proved your point in the land of the illogical. Sorry but saying 3 teams are better but less deserving is talking our both sides of your mouth. Maybe there is a point there, but either you're not making it well or I'm not receiving it well. ND IMO is better than any 1 loss team period until proven otherwise, I don't care what a bunch of butt hurt SECXII homers say.

You've changed the scope of our initial posts. You initially implied that ND had to overcome a huge hurdle to make the CFP that no P5 has to deal with which is unfounded.

For this argument, saying a team is more deserving does not mean that they are better. It's two separate things and I think people can agree with that. I think ND had a great season and when you lay out what they accomplished this year they did plenty to earn a spot in the CFP and are rightfully sitting safely in at number 3.

Having said that, if ND played UGA, OSU or OU on a neutral field I would probably expect all three of them to be favored in that match up. Nobody is saying they deserve to be in over ND though because ND had a great season and didn't have the missteps those other teams had.

 

[Pyle]

You've changed the scope of our initial posts. You initially implied that ND had to overcome a huge hurdle to make the CFP that no P5 has to deal with which is unfounded.

For this argument, saying a team is more deserving does not mean that they are better. It's two separate things and I think people can agree with that. I think ND had a great season and when you lay out what they accomplished this year they did plenty to earn a spot in the CFP and are rightfully sitting safely in at number 3.

Having said that, if ND played UGA, OSU or OU on a neutral field I would probably expect all three of them to be favored in that match up. Nobody is saying they deserve to be in over ND though because ND had a great season and didn't have the missteps those other teams had.

Thanks for the deeper explanation. I get what you're saying. Talking about changing scopes, I think you misunderstood my point about ND. I didn't say they had been cheated. The entire point here is that UCF would need a ND type of season to get in and that will never happen with them in the AAC. Even with ND's season which was perfect, people still think UGA and OK are better. Replace "Notre Dame" with "UCF" and watch the SEC explode over 1 loss UGA. The fact that it's ND is making people shut up. UCF does not have that kind of clout as a program.

 

[Horn88]

Thanks for the deeper explanation. I get what you're saying. Talking about changing scopes, I think you misunderstood my point about ND. I didn't say they had been cheated. The entire point here is that UCF would need a ND type of season to get in and that will never happen with them in the AAC. Even with ND's season which was perfect, people still think UGA and OK are better. Replace "Notre Dame" with "UCF" and watch the SEC explode over 1 loss UGA. The fact that it's ND is making people shut up. UCF does not have that kind of clout as a program.

I see what you're saying now and appreciate the explanation as well. I agree with you that UCF being in the AAC makes it pretty difficult for them because you're right that their conference schedule just doesn't give them the opportunities to build a resume. That's why they have to go above and beyond to load up in the non-conference to get in the covnersation. You're right that the reality is though that even if they played four good P5's in non-conference depending on who they are their schedule would still probably be pretty weak.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They are not being punished.

You said they are carrying the burden of assumed losses that didn't happen, and that's part of the reason for excluding an undefeated team from the playoff.

That's a punishment.

 

[upperdeck]

UCF is a solid team. The fact that they played a blah Pitt team at home and won is about all they have to crow about though. Memphis really had them beat twice and blew it and they struggled with Navy and temple too.

I think their offense is legit, but until it plays teams with athletes on D every week who knows what they would do. I think they would have issues on D playing a full season of high level teams though.

i would not be surprised if they dont beat LSU though. but if they played ala/fl/lsu/miss st/Ga they would get beat up and have several loses too.

 

[sufandu]

You said they are carrying the burden of assumed losses that didn't happen, and that's part of the reason for excluding an undefeated team from the playoff.

That's a punishment.

Nope. Didn't say that. They have not proven themselves by beating good teams because they haven't played any. Now UF is giving them the chance and they won't because it's not on their terms.

The committee has made it clear they look at good wins and bad losses. A bad loss kept Ohio State out this year. A lack of good wins kept UCF out. If UCF had beaten one team similar to UF this year they'd be in, despite their schedule still being easier than everyone else that is in. They have no excuse for turning down any series that can get them a quality win their conference schedule can't.

A lawyer can't practice law until he passes the bar exam. They can't pass if they don't show up. UCF is declining the opportunity to show up.

 

[SyracuseMiami]

Nope. Didn't say that. They have not proven themselves by beating good teams because they haven't played any. Now UF is giving them the chance and they won't because it's not on their terms.

The committee has made it clear they look at good wins and bad losses. A bad loss kept Ohio State out this year. A lack of good wins kept UCF out. If UCF had beaten one team similar to UF this year they'd be in, despite their schedule still being easier than everyone else that is in. They have no excuse for turning down any series that can get them a quality win their conference schedule can't.

A lawyer can't practice law until he passes the bar exam. They can't pass if they don't show up. UCF is declining the opportunity to show up.

^^ This. Exactly

 

[WickedOrange]

Obtained emails show Florida-UCF did discuss series, UCF AD refused 2-for-1 offer

 

[timkay99]

If UCF had beaten one team similar to UF this year they'd be in, despite their schedule still being easier than everyone else that is in.

I don't buy that

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Obtained emails show Florida-UCF did discuss series, UCF AD refused 2-for-1 offer

What a knucklehead White is.

“I am open to playing anyone in the country, but shouldn’t have to put my team at a severe disadvantage by being forced to play two for ones or guarantee games.”

But he already is at a huge advantage playing in a weak conference and not having the physical strain of going against quality opponents week in and week out.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

VT...Boise State...there is a path, Danny White. This isn't that hard.

 

[sufandu]

I don't buy that

That's fair. Obviously, I'm not on the committee, so it isn't fact. It's my opinion that an undefeated UCF with a win over a top 10 team (where UF finished in the rankings) would have been good enough to get in over a one loss Oklahoma team who's best win was over the team that beat them and finished 15th. If you told me their number of quality wins would still get them in over UCF, I wouldn't say you were wrong. It would be close.

 

[Scooch]

White is a phenomenal grandstander.

 

[timkay99]

That's fair. Obviously, I'm not on the committee, so it isn't fact. It's my opinion that an undefeated UCF with a win over a top 10 team (where UF finished in the rankings) would have been good enough to get in over a one loss Oklahoma team who's best win was over the team that beat them and finished 15th. If you told me their number of quality wins would still get them in over UCF, I wouldn't say you were wrong. It would be close.

I think if you look at how the committee finished up, UCF would still be behind the Big 3 (Oklahoma, Georgia, Ohio State for the last spot) even with a convincing win over Florida. My logic behind that is a 2-loss team was very much in the discussion late, so would the committee rank a 2 loss Georgia behind an undefeated UCF? It probably depends on the margin of victory in that UF v UCF game.

In my opinion, in this current format, the only way a G5 team gets in is they play a very tough OOC (no cupcakes) and they have another ranked team in the conference they get to face late in the year (ideally in a championship game) and they wax them. When UCF waxed a ranked Cincy team, they moved up 3 spots. And they would need craziness around them.

 

[Alsacs]

UCF needs a nonconference schedule like this to get into the CFB

@Auburn/@LSU/@Florida type team.
Pittsburgh/NC State/Florida State type team.
Neutral site-Louisville/Georgia/Tennessee/Virginia Tech type team.
Tomato can

If they played 3 P5 teams and only 1 of them was at home they could get in.

 

[sufandu]

I think if you look at how the committee finished up, UCF would still be behind the Big 3 (Oklahoma, Georgia, Ohio State for the last spot) even with a convincing win over Florida. My logic behind that is a 2-loss team was very much in the discussion late, so would the committee rank a 2 loss Georgia behind an undefeated UCF? It probably depends on the margin of victory in that UF v UCF game.

In my opinion, in this current format, the only way a G5 team gets in is they play a very tough OOC (no cupcakes) and they have another ranked team in the conference they get to face late in the year (ideally in a championship game) and they wax them. When UCF waxed a ranked Cincy team, they moved up 3 spots. And they would need craziness around them.

Sure. I can see it. I think 1 big win combined with no losses may have been enough. It's impossible to know because UCF didn't play the game and they don't seem to want to.