UCF - Your 2017 National Champions!!!!

[SU2NASA]

What about 1987 Syracuse?

Never defeated.

 

[OrangePA]

I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with a single thing you just said.

BYU winning the national title in 1984 was an extremely rare occurrence. The last time prior to that a non-major conference team won a title was Army in 1946. Again, the reason BYU won is because they went on the road in Week 1 and beat #3 Pitt. Teams today have every opportunity to schedule and win tough games.

If anything, the current four team playoff makes it easier (relatively speaking, compared to before) for a mid-major to compete for a title.

If you truly believe there is no subjectivity in the present system, you're not paying attention.

It seems hard to believe now, but back in the day, when Clemson won the NC under Danny Ford it was not a power program - the ACC back then was viewed as a BB conference. When Ga Tech won the NC I believe under Bobby Ross (?) it was also not a power program.

Neither of those kinds of programs will be given a chance to win a NC under the present system.

Indeed, if you really believe that "If anything, the current four team playoff makes it easier (relatively speaking, compared to before) for a mid-major [like UCF?] to compete for a title," you again are not paying attention.

That is a conclusion that is simply untrue. And the UCF experience this year is a very good example of just how untrue it is.

 

[Eric15]

If you truly believe there is no subjectivity in the present system, you're not paying attention.

It seems hard to believe now, but back in the day, when Clemson won the NC under Danny Ford it was not a power program - the ACC back then was viewed as a BB conference. When Ga Tech won the NC I believe under Bobby Ross (?) it was also not a power program.

Neither of those kinds of programs will be given a chance to win a NC under the present system.

Indeed, if you really believe that "If anything, the current four team playoff makes it easier (relatively speaking, compared to before) for a mid-major [like UCF?] to compete for a title," you again are not paying attention.

That is a conclusion that is simply untrue. And the UCF experience this year is a very good example of just how untrue it is.

I never said there was no subjectivity in the present system. I'm saying there is less (or better) subjectivity in the current 4-team playoff than the pre-BCS bowl system where there could be co-champions or 1 vs 2 not playing.

1981 Clemson beat two top 10 teams, #4 Georgia and #9 North Carolina, in the regular season. That's why they shot up in the rankings and played for a national title.

1990 Georgia Tech beat three Top 25 teams, including winning at #1 Virginia, in the regular season. Likewise, that's why they played for a title.

UCF played a weak schedule this year. That's why they didn't make the cut. If they're serious about being a national title contender, then they need to schedule one of those early weekend showcase games against a big time opponent like Boise and Houston have done in recent years.

Non-superpower teams like Mississippi State, Iowa, TCU and Oklahoma State have been very close to making the playoff over the last few years.

 

[orangecuse]

I never said there was no subjectivity in the present system. I'm saying there is less (or better) subjectivity in the current 4-team playoff than the pre-BCS bowl system where there could be co-champions or 1 vs 2 not playing.

1981 Clemson beat two top 10 teams, #4 Georgia and #9 North Carolina, in the regular season. That's why they shot up in the rankings and played for a national title.

1990 Georgia Tech beat three Top 25 teams, including winning at #1 Virginia, in the regular season. Likewise, that's why they played for a title.

UCF played a weak schedule this year. That's why they didn't make the cut. If they're serious about being a national title contender, then they need to schedule one of those early weekend showcase games against a big time opponent like Boise and Houston have done in recent years.

Non-superpower teams like Mississippi State, Iowa, TCU and Oklahoma State have been very close to making the playoff over the last few years.

Again, 100% your opinion. You know what isn't an opinion? That no matter how weak you claim UCF's scheduled was this year the fact is, that UCF beat the team in their bowl game that beat both of the teams that are playing in Monday's national (mythical) championship game.

 

[OrangePA]

I never said there was no subjectivity in the present system. I'm saying there is less (or better) subjectivity in the current 4-team playoff than the pre-BCS bowl system where there could be co-champions or 1 vs 2 not playing.

1981 Clemson beat two top 10 teams, #4 Georgia and #9 North Carolina, in the regular season. That's why they shot up in the rankings and played for a national title.

1990 Georgia Tech beat three Top 25 teams, including winning at #1 Virginia, in the regular season. Likewise, that's why they played for a title.

UCF played a weak schedule this year. That's why they didn't make the cut. If they're serious about being a national title contender, then they need to schedule one of those early weekend showcase games against a big time opponent like Boise and Houston have done in recent years.

Non-superpower teams like Mississippi State, Iowa, TCU and Oklahoma State have been very close to making the playoff over the last few years.

UCF went undefeated and beat Auburn.

And the Knights were not given even a chance to compete for the NC.

It seems self-evident that a non-power 5 program will never win a NC under the present system. (So, there will be a hue and cry to expand the play-offs, making the system even more similar to the NFL - and that's a problem).

Hard to say that teams in the Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC are the kinds of programs that I am describing.

I just don't think that's accurate.

The present system is subjective - it extends the season too long - it excludes too many teams and it is driven simply by media money.

That's how I see it. I understand that you disagree with all of that.

 

[sufandu]

There is no objective system that exists. There are too many teams with too much variation in schedules. Even conference champions lack objectivity with how unbalanced the schedules are. The only objective way to do it would be to have conferences small enough to use a full round robin and make a playoff out of all of the champions.

Expand to 144 teams. Have 16 conferences with 9 teams. Play a full round robin with no OOC games followed by a 16 team tournament.

For a multitude of reasons, people don't want that. Therefore, every system we have will have subjectivity. Of course, we could always have a system where teams just play each other without worrying about a champion, except that goes against every innate need in mankind to determine who is the best at something.

 

[orangecuse]

There no objective system that exists. There are too many teams with too much variation in schedules. Even conference champions lack objectivity with how unbalanced the schedules are The only objective way to do it would be to have comferences small enough to use a full round robin and make a playoff out of all of the champions.

Expand to 144 teams. Have 16 conferences with 9 teams. Play a full round robin with no OOC games followed by a 16 team tournament.

For a multitude of reasons, people don't want that. Therefore, every system we have will have subjectivity. Of course, we could always have a system where teams just play each other without worrying about a champion, except that goes against every innate need in mankind to determine who is the best at something.

I think most people would prefer a more honorable playoff. If it is done at the FCS level, it can easily be done at the FBS level. It's all about the money, and the rich staying and getting richer...period!

 

[cuse10]

I never said there was no subjectivity in the present system. I'm saying there is less (or better) subjectivity in the current 4-team playoff than the pre-BCS bowl system where there could be co-champions or 1 vs 2 not playing.

1981 Clemson beat two top 10 teams, #4 Georgia and #9 North Carolina, in the regular season. That's why they shot up in the rankings and played for a national title.

1990 Georgia Tech beat three Top 25 teams, including winning at #1 Virginia, in the regular season. Likewise, that's why they played for a title.

UCF played a weak schedule this year. That's why they didn't make the cut. If they're serious about being a national title contender, then they need to schedule one of those early weekend showcase games against a big time opponent like Boise and Houston have done in recent years.

Non-superpower teams like Mississippi State, Iowa, TCU and Oklahoma State have been very close to making the playoff over the last few years.

It isn't as easy as you make it seem. Schools like UCF are going to have big programs duck them AND in the case one does want to play them, it will be on their terms.

 

[sufandu]

I think most people would prefer a more honorable playoff. If it is done at the FCS level, it can easily be done at the FBS level. It's all about the money, and the rich staying and getting richer...period!

I agree. It needs to be expanded. Even then it won't be completely objective. 14 of the 24 teams in the fcs playoff are selected by a committee.

 

[Cusefan95]

I never said there was no subjectivity in the present system. I'm saying there is less (or better) subjectivity in the current 4-team playoff than the pre-BCS bowl system where there could be co-champions or 1 vs 2 not playing.

In some ways, the current system is worse. It’s still a complete sham of a system...but has just enough of the illusion of legitimacy to get people like you to defend it.

There is absolutely, positively no chance a school like UCF will ever make the current playoff. It couldn’t happen in the old system, it won’t happen in the new system. There is no actual, legitimate national champion - wasn’t before, isn’t now. That the powers that be decided they’d rubber stamp a National Champion doesn’t magically make it legitimate (except to people like you) - it’s all still a farce.

 

[Eric15]

In some ways, the current system is worse. It’s still a complete sham of a system...but has just enough of the illusion of legitimacy to get people like you to defend it.

There is absolutely, positively no chance a school like UCF will ever make the current playoff. It couldn’t happen in the old system, it won’t happen in the new system. There is no actual, legitimate national champion - wasn’t before, isn’t now. That the powers that be decided they’d rubber stamp a National Champion doesn’t magically make it legitimate (except to people like you) - it’s all still a farce.

I'm going to enjoy the Super Bowl of my favorite sport on Monday night watching two great college football teams go at it, and if that's not your cup of tea, that's fine to each their own.

 

[Bayside44]

I'm going to enjoy the Super Bowl of my favorite sport on Monday night watching two great college football teams go at it, and if that's not your cup of tea, that's fine to each their own.

You don't seem like the type of person that would come down on the side of the Illuminati for something like this...

UCF played a mid-major schedule. The idea of them in the final four is a joke. They were winless a couple of years ago, they can likely schedule whomever they would like.

This system is more fair than anything else. Maybe give a bye to seeds 1 and 2 then include teams 3-6, (and play the final on a Saturday night)

 

[Bayside44]

UCF went undefeated and beat Auburn.

And the Knights were not given even a chance to compete for the NC.

It seems self-evidence that a non-power 5 program will never win a NC under the present system. (So, there will be a hue and cry to expand the play-offs, making the system even more similar to the NFL - and that's a problem).

Hard to say that teams in the Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC are the kinds of programs that I am describing.

I just don't think that's accurate.

The present system is subjective - it extends the season too long - it excludes too many teams and it is driven simply by media money.

That's how I see it. I understand that you disagree with all of that.

The UCF team didn't have the stress to their team that their schedule gave them like Syracuse did. Play a big boy schedule all year long, survive it then beat Auburn.

 

[Timonen]

I dont think this is a delusional celebration so much as it is an absolute mockery of the ncaa and bcs process. I kinda love it

This is where I come down. No way they're best and no way they deserved to be in final four with that schedule...but if they want to needle the NCAA, have fun, get fans/recruits fired up, have at it! If it makes them play all their ooc against legit p5 teams, even better!

 

[OrangePA]

The UCF team didn't have the stress to their team that their schedule gave them like Syracuse did. Play a big boy schedule all year long, survive it then beat Auburn.

Excellent subjective analysis.

The problem is that the play-off system purports to decide the NC on the field.

And that's not really what happens.

It is decided to a great degree on the basis of the kind of opinion analysis that you have just provided us.

My feeling is that because the play-off system is pretty subjective, the problems that it causes are not worth it.

 

[Bayside44]

Excellent subjective analysis.

The problem is that the play-off system purports to decide the NC on the field.

And that's not really what happens.

It is decided to a great degree on the basis of the kind of opinion analysis that you have just provided us.

My feeling is that because the play-off system is pretty subjective, the problems that it causes are not worth it.

Georgia, OU, and Clemson won their conferences. Bama / tOSU (who lost to OU at home) were the last 2 for one spot.

It's called a playoff but more like a tournament with who gets invited to play in it. Change the name and maybe no one cares, it's not the NFL.

 

[OrangePA]

I'm going to enjoy the Super Bowl of my favorite sport on Monday night watching two great college football teams go at it, and if that's not your cup of tea, that's fine to each their own.

Okay.

So, lets go to a 16 game regular season schedule and have a 16 team play-off.

I mean, that's where we're headed, right?

And, I can't argue that the games are not fun - they are fun.

But this college football - not professional football - and in my opinion it should be played on a different level and in a more limited way than professional football.

For me, the shorter schedules, the lack of play-offs, and the bowl games makes the college game unique and fun.

But that's my opinion.

 

[sufandu]

Okay.

So, lets go to a 16 game regular season schedule and have a 16 team play-off.

I mean, that's where we're headed, right?

And, I can't argue that the games are not fun - they are fun.

But this college football - not professional football - and in my opinion it should be played on a different level and in a more limited way than professional football.

For me, the shorter schedules, the lack of play-offs, and the bowl games makes the college game unique and fun.

But that's my opinion.

Not so much the college game, just the FBS game. Every other level has had a playoff for a long time.

The pre-BCS system was worse than than any other for determining a NC, if that was the goal.

The bowl system also lost some of the fun when we got passed over in favor of worse teams for better bowls.

 

[All4SU]

I am just expressing my point of view. Whether I am only one who believes as I do I guess will be decided by the board. That's the point of the board, I guess.

Again, my concerns are: (1) there is too much money in the college game - the media in all its forms, has exerted full control over the game; (2) the athletes are being asked to play too many games; (3) there is still a lot of subjectivity in the process; (4) the play-off system spotlights the wealthy programs and detracts from the less wealthy programs; (5) the play-off system renders more and more post-season bowl games less meaningful; and (6) the play-off system effectively prevents a program like BYU or UCF from every becoming a NC.

I have the NFL. I have professional football.

I don't need another version of it and I don't want another Super Bowl - which is what the NC game is trying so hard to become.

If I'm the only one who feels as I do, that's fine.

Agree with most of this.

 

[SWC75]

They are basically what Brigham Young was in 1984.

1984 NCAA Division I-A football season - Wikipedia

I think UCF's actions are a combination good-natured jest and a protest against an system that excludes them form any shot at the national championship. The NCAA basketball tournament is full of mid-majors who wouldn't have as good a record if they were in a power conference but they get to play for the title.

i was surprised listening to the radio this week where the response was usually "Who do these guys think they are?" People are taking it entirely too seriously and failing to see it form the underdog's point of view.

 

[Stern]

You can create a 4, 8, or 16 team playoff...UCF still isn't getting in. They play in a joke of a conference. They ended their season playing the likes of Temple, USF, and Memphis (and it took them 2 OT's to beat Memphis). Nobody is going to take a school like that seriously for a national championship or a spot in a playoff. Not to mention the P5 conferences hold all the power and will never let a school like that in a playoff and kick out one of their own schools.

UCF went 12-0 in the regular season, god bless them and in their little world its a great thing. They aren't national champs, to think they got robbed of a playoff spot is laughable, and to think if the playoff was expanded they would have gotten in is even more laughable. No different than when MARCH MADNESS comes around for basketball and when the Atlantic Sun Conference has a team go like 28-1 in the regular season but they get upset in their conference championship game and some 12-17 team gets the Automatic bid for the NCAA Tournament and the 28-1 team is in the NIT. When you come from one of those conferences nobody takes you seriously or your record seriously at the end of the day.

 

[Eric15]

You can create a 4, 8, or 16 team playoff...UCF still isn't getting in. They play in a joke of a conference. They ended their season playing the likes of Temple, USF, and Memphis (and it took them 2 OT's to beat Memphis). Nobody is going to take a school like that seriously for a national championship or a spot in a playoff. Not to mention the P5 conferences hold all the power and will never let a school like that in a playoff and kick out one of their own schools.

UCF went 12-0 in the regular season, god bless them and in their little world its a great thing. They aren't national champs, to think they got robbed of a playoff spot is laughable, and to think if the playoff was expanded they would have gotten in is even more laughable. No different than when MARCH MADNESS comes around for basketball and when the Atlantic Sun Conference has a team go like 24-1 in the regular season but they get upset in their conference championship game and some 12-17 team gets the Automatic bid for the NCAA Tournament and the 28-1 team is in the NIT. When you come from one of those conferences nobody takes you seriously or your record seriously at the end of the day.

Agree with the general sentiment of your post, but UCF would definitely get in if the field was 16 teams. If it was 8, they would be on the fence and there would be spirited debate both ways.

 

[Stern]

Agree with the general sentiment of your post, but UCF would definitely get in if the field was 16 teams. If it was 8, they would be on the fence and there would be spirited debate both ways.

you will never have a 16 team tournament in Division I college football. Would take a month to play and make the college football season longer than the NFL. And don't say shorten the regular season because these college (especially the big boys with big stadiums that sell them out for each home game and don't want to give up the random home game vs the Mercer's of the world) isn't going to give up home games where they rake in the cash that bankroll their entire Athletic Department budget off of their home football schedule each year. It's just never going to happen. Ever!!

 

[CousCuse]

This is a good warning to Notre Dame . If you play a weak enough schedule to go undefeated, your SOS will be too low and nope, your not getting in the playoffs. And, if you play a very difficult schedule and lose 1 game you will not get in over conference champions or 1 loss teams from ACC, SEC, B1G. Recruits should understand that ND is just an anachronism and not part of the modern era of college football.

 

[Eric15]

you will never have a 16 team tournament in Division I college football. Would take a month to play and make the college football season longer than the NFL. And don't say shorten the regular season because these college (especially the big boys with big stadiums that sell them out for each home game and don't want to give up the random home game vs the Mercer's of the world) isn't going to give up home games where they rake in the cash that bankroll their entire Athletic Department budget off of their home football schedule each year. It's just never going to happen. Ever!!

Stern, you said "You can create a 4, 8, or 16 team playoff...UCF still isn't getting in." I was responding to the hypothetical that you created.