UConn hoops back to Big East | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

UConn hoops back to Big East

I missed 11 seed Xavier in the Elite 8. So I was wrong but that program is basically Florida State or Purdue from a major conference.
Those teams are solid but aren’t brands.
The Big East is Villanova and everyone else. Georgetown like Miami in football if they got good have juice but the rest of the conference is just solid.
UConn did the right thing for their fans being able to attend more road games and maybe increasing their home attendance with familiar names.
The point is though the AAC in basketball has more potential than most realize to be a 3-5 bid league annually.
Dude even if the AAC has more potential the Big East is a 3-5 bid league CURRENTLY.

You’re using two standards to evaluate the conferences. Let’s say that the tournament is a great way to evaluate the strengths of the two conference (doubtful given the sample size). You say that Nova is the only program that’s done anything and that’s fine. But the only program in the American that has done anything is leaving to the Big East!
 
Dude even if the AAC has more potential the Big East is a 3-5 bid league CURRENTLY.

You’re using two standards to evaluate the conferences. Let’s say that the tournament is a great way to evaluate the strengths of the two conference (doubtful given the sample size). You say that Nova is the only program that’s done anything and that’s fine. But the only program in the American that has done anything is leaving to the Big East!
I just think the Big East has riden the Nova success to create the image the conference is good.
They have solid teams but outside of Villanova it has been okay but not at the level of the ACC/Big Ten/Big XII.

I don’t think the basketball of the Big East right now that much better than the basketball of the American.
That is basically my point. It’s just the Big East teams have more history with UConn and a better location.
 
Saying AAC basketball is underappreciated is one thing.
Saying it’s better than the Big East is, well, just wrong.
 
Plus Nova doesn’t have enough fans to consistently put 30-40k in a football stadium.
It’s fine for basketball when their on campus arena is under 10k and they play the bigger home games at 76ers arena because opposing fans would fill it up.
Villanova would play Syracuse games at the 76ers arena because our fans would bring 2-5k depending on the day the game was played.

Nova football wouldn’t have worked because of their fanbase.


Do any schools in major metros with professional sports really move the needle with regards to attendance and fanbase following, except of course when they are in some form of title hunt?
 
Do any schools in major metros with professional sports really move the needle with regards to attendance and fanbase following, except of course when they are in some form of title hunt?
I think it depends on who they are. Look at the DC area. You have UMd, G'town, GWash, and George Mason as the primary D-1 teams in b-ball. (UMd is the only game in town for football.) UMd packs/comes close to packing the Comcast Center pretty much no matter what. the others, IMO have a certain loyal core of followers who will go to their games all the time and the number increases with their success. G'town plays in the Verizon Center and the crowd basically gets lost. McDonough Gym on campus is way too small and the Verizon Center is way too big. The DC media for the longest time emphasized UMd football and G'town basketball (under Thompson the Elder). When G'town seemingly collapsed, it was just UMd. However, in DC all sports at all levels are secondary to the Redskins. Baseball season is really over once the Redskins open training camp. They even had one TV station broadcast live the entirety of what would now be called OTAs.
 
It would have been very difficult for Villanova because, IIRC, they don’t have room for a D-1A compliant stadium on their campus (just like Miami). And, like Miami, they’d have to play in the Linc, the nearest NFL stadium, or Franklin Field. You have to remember, they went from having a team, to giving up football completely, to reinstating a team at D-3 and working their way back up to D-1AA.
That's true, but when they saw and analyzed what the potential of an all-sport Big East conference could have been, I would think that they would have went all-in. That is, unless Notre Dame had/has some sort of veto power over other catholic schools going D-1 in football. Temple is finding room for a stadium, I think, in their close quarters, where there's a will, there's a way.
 
I just think the Big East has riden the Nova success to create the image the conference is good.
They have solid teams but outside of Villanova it has been okay but not at the level of the ACC/Big Ten/Big XII.

I don’t think the basketball of the Big East right now that much better than the basketball of the American.
That is basically my point. It’s just the Big East teams have more history with UConn and a better location.

Paragraph 1: "Well, of course the Big East can't compete with the ACC / Big 10"

Paragraph 2: The American may have some better / promising programs, but a big part of what makes those programs "better" is competent football teams, reasonable dollars from a football TV contract, and a much more manageable travel bill than UConn had being part of that league.

UConn lost all its traditional rivals, save for "Cincinnati" (never really a rival, despite short overlap in the Big East for hoops). UConn's schedule is not appealing to either their fans or their potential recruits, in either sport.

If you accept that UConn has surrendered any hope of a future seat at the P-5 (eventually P-4?) table, and has given up on football so as to not bankrupt the Athletic Dept., then the Big East makes much better sense for them.

The AAC may have better teams, but the Big East has better, more important markets. That will keep them alive. UConn was dying in the AAC.
 
That's true, but when they saw and analyzed what the potential of an all-sport Big East conference could have been, I would think that they would have went all-in. That is, unless Notre Dame had/has some sort of veto power over other catholic schools going D-1 in football. Temple is finding room for a stadium, I think, in their close quarters, where there's a will, there's a way.
ND doesn't have any sort of veto like that; geography and enrollment do. A goodly number of the Catholic schools are within big cities which makes it tough for on-campus anything and/or are regional schools that don't have large enrollments (Creighton in Omaha; Santa Clara; Marquette in Milwaukee; DePaul in Chicago). BC managed to stay in D-1A, while its former blood rival Holy Cross had to go to D-1AA.

Trivia factoid: When BC beat ND in 1993, that was the first time ND ever lost to a Catholic school. And a number of them that don't play D-1 football now (like the Bonnies, Marquette and St. Louis) played ND in ancient times.
 
I think the travel in the AAC is a killer. Wichita, Tulsa, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Cincinnati, Memphis etc. Not just distance issues but numerous time zone changes. The logistics and ultimately the cost for scheduling particularly with weekday basketball contests and the time lost from classes has to take its’ toll its’ most Northern and eastern member.

The effect on UConn’s Flagship program, women’s basketball, can’t be ignored. The AAC affiliation hadn’t helped seeding nor competition for the women. This past year only UCF who lost in the first round made it to the NCAA’s. I imagine Geno wasn’t happy.

I would agree. This happened to UMKC where I live this week. They decided to join the WAC in 2013 - a conference with 2 schools in CA, 1 in AZ, 1 in NM, 1 in WA, 1 in TX about as far south as you can go, CO and IL. Keep in mind, this wasn't even a football decision as UMKC doesn't have a team. I thought it was insane at the time.

An article comes out last year that they are having budget issues. Then this week, they announced they are rejoining the Summit League where they originally were with schools like Denver, North Dakota, North Dakota State, Omaha, Oral Roberts, Purdue-Fort Wayne, South Dakota, South Dakota State, and Western Illinois. Much more geographical sense. Everyone involved in deciding to go to the WAC should have lost their job. But I digress, back to UConn.
 
ND doesn't have any sort of veto like that; geography and enrollment do. A goodly number of the Catholic schools are within big cities which makes it tough for on-campus anything and/or are regional schools that don't have large enrollments (Creighton in Omaha; Santa Clara; Marquette in Milwaukee; DePaul in Chicago). BC managed to stay in D-1A, while its former blood rival Holy Cross had to go to D-1AA.

Trivia factoid: When BC beat ND in 1993, that was the first time ND ever lost to a Catholic school. And a number of them that don't play D-1 football now (like the Bonnies, Marquette and St. Louis) played ND in ancient times.
The bottom line in this is: If Villanova had the choice, would they stay where they are at or be in a P5 conference? They have always had a strong athletic department, I think of them as a catholic Northwestern, only with better teams. Had they made the commitment to D-1 football at that juncture, they would be in the ACC right now, I believe.
 
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I’m not a college administrator and I’m not privy to any of the goings-on that contributed to this move for UConn, but from what I do know, it’s hard for me to get my head around the logic of this move.

Syracuse, Pitt et al left the Big East because ‘football drives the bus’. None of us were happy, but we were told it was a move that had to happen or we would die on the vine. There is no big $$ available if your school does not have a football team in a P5. No lucrative TV money. Basketball generates revenue but is nowhere close to football (which by the way still boggles my mind, but whatever). UConn understands this and believes it too, so they dump a -ton of money into a stadium and a program. They get big donors to buy in and (re-) hire what is considered a big name coach. They’re ready to be a player and ultimately either get into a P5 or get that P5 TV money from their current conference.

But their crown jewel men’s hoops program stumbles a bit and instead of dominating their new conference they struggle. The football team just falls off the table altogether.

They hire Hurley and the basketball team shows some promise. UConn is at least feeling better about it’s hoops future. Football is still abysmal BUT the coach is optimistic, saying ‘wait til next year’. So while things aren’t great in Storrs, there is reason to believe that they are on the right track.

Meanwhile reports are published that the athletic department is running a $40 million deficit. In addition to that, there’s is a real possibility that they’ll have to pay their fired hoops coach $10 million. Money they do not have and the state that subsidizes them is well under water themselves so they can’t be expecting much help from Hartford.

If it were me making the decisions there I’d think the prudent thing would be to bite the bullet. Wait it out. My hoops coach is energetic and seems to be able to recruit, my football facilities are upgraded, my coach’s name is respected and if he is to be believed, he has a plan in place. Yes, I’m losing money in the short term but there’s light at the end of the tunnel.

Instead of staying the course though, they effectively abandon football and really any shot at all of a P5 conference and the $$ that comes with that. For what? A short term bump in basketball relevance and a few more sheckles? And let’s not now forget that they incur yet another $10 million invoice for leaving their current conference. Again - money they don’t have.

I mean I get going back to where you had your greatest successes but the Big East is not the same conference it was and the entire college athletics landscape has had seismic shifts. There is no path now for the football program to be successful enough as to be attractive to any P5 conference so that dream is dead and with it, the $$. It seems to me that UConn athletics has abandoned long-term success for short-term...what?

Who wins here? Hurley? If the basketball team does well, the job offers will come for him. The school and athletic department will have a much harder time crawling out from under those millions of dollars of debt. Facilities will suffer, etc., etc.

This is what “dying on the vine” looks like.
 
The bottom line in this is: If Villanova had the choice, would they stay where they are at or be in a P5 conference? They have always had a strong athletic department, I think of them as a catholic Northwestern, only with better teams. Had they made the commitment to D-1 football at that juncture, they would be in the ACC right now, I believe.
From what an alum told me back in the day, everyone was really confused and then irate about their Administration's decision to end football completely. They accept their present status. Would most of them rather be back in the full D-1A status they had before? You bet! I think they've come to realize this is as far as the Administration will go.

I don't know if they'd be in the ACC only because I don't know whose slot they would have taken.
 
From what an alum told me back in the day, everyone was really confused and then irate about their Administration's decision to end football completely. They accept their present status. Would most of them rather be back in the full D-1A status they had before? You bet! I think they've come to realize this is as far as the Administration will go.

I don't know if they'd be in the ACC only because I don't know whose slot they would have taken.
Them instead of "Ville. Their basketball program + Philly market would be sweet.
 
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Them instead of "Ville. Their basketball program + Philly market would be sweet.
Louisville was brought in for football to keep Clemson and FSU from bolting to the Big XII. It wasn't an idle threat. Of the available candidates at the time, they had the best football program. As I said to someone on our board, without Louisville, there's no Clemson, no FSU, no ACC Network and possibly no ACC itself.
 
Louisville was brought in for football to keep Clemson and FSU from bolting to the Big XII. It wasn't an idle threat. Of the available candidates at the time, they had the best football program. As I said to someone on our board, without Louisville, there's no Clemson, no FSU, no ACC Network and possibly no ACC itself.
People who don’t care to look at the facts and just want to be ideals have no freaking clue how this stuff works.
Louisville wasn’t the original choice to replace Maryland it was UConn but Florida State and Clemson cashed in their political capital and didn’t want another northeast basketball first school with no football history brought into the ACC.

The ACC needed to placate Florida State and Clemson at that time and Louisville because of their history with Florida State in the metro and Charlie Strong rebuilding Louisville football made them the choice especially since they had a strong basketball pedigree and were closer to the ACC footprint than UConn.

Louisville over UConn is the starting point for a lot of the good that has happened for the conference.
 
Louisville was brought in for football to keep Clemson and FSU from bolting to the Big XII. It wasn't an idle threat. Of the available candidates at the time, they had the best football program. As I said to someone on our board, without Louisville, there's no Clemson, no FSU, no ACC Network and possibly no ACC itself.

Thank you sir, for your service.

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Louisville was brought in for football to keep Clemson and FSU from bolting to the Big XII. It wasn't an idle threat. Of the available candidates at the time, they had the best football program. As I said to someone on our board, without Louisville, there's no Clemson, no FSU, no ACC Network and possibly no ACC itself.
Okay. What if Villanova did a study of revenue, present and future in college sports in the late 80's when the BE was formed and the addition of a football conference was on its' way and came to the logical and inescapable conclusion that"football drives the bus? And at that time put the resources and focus on building a solid D-1 program? That's what I think could have or should have happened, so that by the time the expansion took place Nova would be viewed as a decent, legit football program. I think that school and ADept. would be capable of doing that.
 
Okay. What if Villanova did a study of revenue, present and future in college sports in the late 80's when the BE was formed and the addition of a football conference was on its' way and came to the logical and inescapable conclusion that"football drives the bus? And at that time put the resources and focus on building a solid D-1 program? That's what I think could have or should have happened, so that by the time the expansion took place Nova would be viewed as a decent, legit football program. I think that school and ADept. would be capable of doing that.

You can't spend resources that don't exist.

There's a reason why Georgetown only has an FCS team.

There's a reason why St John's gave up their FCS team.

There's a reason why Providence never started a team.

Football may drive the bus, but most small private catholic universities can't afford the ticket.
 
You can't spend resources that don't exist.

There's a reason why Georgetown only has an FCS team.

There's a reason why St John's gave up their FCS team.

There's a reason why Providence never started a team.

Football may drive the bus, but most small private catholic universities can't afford the ticket.
They are not going to be on the P5 gravy train, that's for sure. BC is a small catholic university and they made it happen.
 

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