UNC Post Game

[DilemaCuse]

The responsible thing IMO would have been a 4 year $11M contract. Red was an extremely risky hire. Giving him a 5 year contract makes no sense.

3 years option for a 4th max, in bball if you can't get get it going in your first 2 years your probably not the guy and aren't ever going to get it going.

 

[DilemaCuse]

So, that's a 5 year guaranteed contract at a 7% raise over what JB made his last year.

Yeah kinda hard to believe. Where is the justification for that? Autry never even got a head coaching job at the high school level.

 

[Newhouser]

Cuffe has great energy, but he plays totally out of control and lacks scoring skills.

He's the most overrated player on this forum. Played a couple good minutes in a few games, as has everyone else. Also that last three was definitely taken with defiance.

 

[Lukeyloo]

Honestly, at this point, I’m willing to blame Red specifically for this season.

Per all accounts from people “in the know”, the staff loved Carlos and felt we had a great roster. This isn’t a situation where he said it in the press or anything. This is the back door PR channels. Like when people said Hughes or Wes were studs before we saw them. We have plenty of receipts saying it from people we all believe.

So that tells me he was the problem with the roster evaluation and, of course, his game day coaching has been horrible. This is on him

And if things get turned around next year with talented players who compliment each others games, I’m ready to give all credit to Kline.

 

[23Zone]

Since nothing has clicked I'd like to see this experimentation in a 23 zone.

Starling
Moore
Davis
Lampkin
MacLeod

 

[SwagSocks]

Yes they lost to an excellent Troy team. I watched the entire game and was so impressed by Arkansas St’s athleticism, defensive pressure, and 3-point shooting. I didn’t see any glaring mistakes that he made as a coach in this game.

They did an in-game interview and he has a love and passion for the Buffalo Bills. He’s an upstate New York guy and does a lot of community service just like Coach Fran.

I think he’d be a home run hire for Syracuse if we can get him. I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed that another team doesn’t scoop him up in the off-season

Excellent Troy team? And They shot 30% from three against the mighty Trojans. I guess it’s not hard to impress people since Cuse’s product is awful, but come on.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He's the most overrated player on this forum. Played a couple good minutes in a few games, as has everyone else. Also that last three was definitely taken with defiance.

He's been bad these last few games, you're right.
Maybe a more consistent role would prevent him from playing hero ball.

 

[MSOrange]

Excellent Troy team? And They shot 30% from three against the mighty Trojans. I guess it’s not hard to impress people since Cuse’s product is awful, but come on.

It's one game for crying out loud.

 

[Millhouse]

The history of token starters in this program is loooong…lots to get on Red about. This isn’t one of them.

Fab Melo was lucky to make it to the first dead ball his freshman year.

Unfortunately that seems to be the only thing he learned from boeheim in his thousand years learning at his side

 

[CuseCPT]

He's the most overrated player on this forum. Played a couple good minutes in a few games, as has everyone else. Also that last three was definitely taken with defiance.

Most overrated on the forum?!? I'm one of a handful of guys that has defended him and got mocked for it. He played good minutes when he was not on the floor with Carlos. When Carlos is also on the floor he settles in and does what a shooting guard is supposed to do, but he is terrible at it. His defense alone is worth starting him over Carlos at PG and I will die on that hill. But since Red is incapable or unwilling to recognize that, it will remain an academic debate.

 

[Millhouse]

The roster management / talent evaluation to me is my biggest concern with the staff.

It’s so bad this year, that it’s hard to tell how bad the coaching is. Watching last year’s team, I think most of us thought the game day decisions/ rotations made sense. Getting 20 wins was a step forward.

I think this roster is so botched, it’s almost unfixable from a coaching perspective. This is not to excuse the game day coaching.

There’s been a massive over reliance on Carlos, who simply isn’t ACC caliber. It’s maddening to watch as a fan.

Perhaps Naheem was hurt earlier in the season, but the DNP’s didn’t make sense.

Why didnt Cuffe come in for Carlos and Taylor for Bell in that game end sequence?

The problem to me is that the bench is too long. Players don’t know their role, so a guy like Cuffe feels empowered to chuck that late three.

Shorten the bench. Define who your scorers are, and feed them until they fail. Deal harshly with those who do things outside of the game plan. There is not enough structure.

Do you see evidence of game plans?

 

[Scooch]

Do you see evidence of game plans?

Sure. We've started most games with the 5 guys on the floor that we want. Not every game, but most games.

That's a plan for a game.

 

[CuseCPT]

The roster management / talent evaluation to me is my biggest concern with the staff.

It’s so bad this year, that it’s hard to tell how bad the coaching is. Watching last year’s team, I think most of us thought the game day decisions/ rotations made sense. Getting 20 wins was a step forward.

I think this roster is so botched, it’s almost unfixable from a coaching perspective. This is not to excuse the game day coaching.

There’s been a massive over reliance on Carlos, who simply isn’t ACC caliber. It’s maddening to watch as a fan.

Perhaps Naheem was hurt earlier in the season, but the DNP’s didn’t make sense.

Why didnt Cuffe come in for Carlos and Taylor for Bell in that game end sequence?

The problem to me is that the bench is too long. Players don’t know their role, so a guy like Cuffe feels empowered to chuck that late three.

Shorten the bench. Define who your scorers are, and feed them until they fail. Deal harshly with those who do things outside of the game plan. There is not enough structure.

I respectfully disagree. In fact. I think you actually layout a very strong case that it isn't hard to tell how bad the coaching is because of how bad the roster is. When players are still routinely making the same mistakes and the team has no identity at either end of the court and no set lineups or roles assigned in mid February, that's bad coaching. This team performs much worse than the sum of its (admittedly bad) parts.

 

[xc84]

82 points is enough to win but you can’t give up 88 and expect to win. Defensive skills are lacking and that is not Red’s fault except for not seeing it before recruiting. AAU teams don’t do these kids any favors in that they don’t really learn defensive skills there. It is all offense. By the time they are in college, players should know defensive skills including boxing out and positioning for rebounds.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We covered!

That could have been a win, but they don’t have the horses or the discipline. They’re not a team.

 

[Fly Rodder]

82 points is enough to win but you can’t give up 88 and expect to win. Defensive skills are lacking and that is not Red’s fault except for not seeing it before recruiting. AAU teams don’t do these kids any favors in that they don’t really learn defensive skills there. It is all offense. By the time they are in college, players should know defensive skills including boxing out and positioning for rebounds.

So the AAU kids who go to other schools … can’t play defense either? Or Syracuse gets the only kids who can’t play D?

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Is it though? I don’t trust all the data I found from my random google search, but it would put him just inside the top 50 in terms of pay scale.

You could maybe have gotten him cheaper, but in terms of revenue he would have produced if he was able to put together even an average team, that’s not out of line compared to peer schools

A multi year contract at that level for a person with zero head coaching experience would be a very poor contract structure for the school. It’s okay to give him the job, but you structure the contract so there are more backend performance incentives instead of long term guarantees from the start. Red was going to take the job regardless of pay structure (within reason). There’s no reason for the school to give up all their leverage. If they did, shame on JW and the school for agreeing to such a lucrative contract for Red.

 

[xc84]

So the AAU kids who go to other schools … can’t play defense either? Or Syracuse gets the only kids who can’t play D?

Some kids still learn D. HS coaches and other coaches… even some AAU coaches do teach it. My main point is that AAU mostly focuses on offense and that players still need to learn defensive skills before college. I did say that Red missed it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Some kids still learn D. HS coaches and other coaches… even some AAU coaches do teach it. My main point is that AAU mostly focuses on offense and that players still need to learn defensive skills before college. I did say that Red missed it.

Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't buy this. Yes, AAU ball places emphasis on outscoring the opposition. But high school coaches keep their jobs by winning games, too. And that takes defense.

There's a difference in physicality and maturity of players as you move up a level. That makes you up your game defensively (or fail to up your game, as the case may be ...).

These guys were taught defense by some coach before they got to college, and they ought to understand the fundamentals before they ever get offered a college scholarship.

Defense needs to be taught in college to show you how to get leverage and maintain position against bigger guys and handle more sophisticated game plans. (Red just seems to have no idea how to coach defense at all, it's true.)

But these guys should have some idea of how to play defense before they ever get here.

 

[Scooch]

Some kids still learn D. HS coaches and other coaches… even some AAU coaches do teach it. My main point is that AAU mostly focuses on offense and that players still need to learn defensive skills before college. I did say that Red missed it.

That's fine, but 3 of our 5 starters last night have 4+ years of college experience (Taylor, Davis, Lampkin) and another has 3 (Starling).

4 of the 5 guys who came off the bench have 3+ years of college experience (Bell, McLeod, Carlos, Cuffe).

This is a VERY experienced team. Blaming AAU 4 years after these guys last played it seems like incredibly thin gruel.

 

[Irishsecra1]

The roster management / talent evaluation to me is my biggest concern with the staff.

It’s so bad this year, that it’s hard to tell how bad the coaching is. Watching last year’s team, I think most of us thought the game day decisions/ rotations made sense. Getting 20 wins was a step forward.

I think this roster is so botched, it’s almost unfixable from a coaching perspective. This is not to excuse the game day coaching.

There’s been a massive over reliance on Carlos, who simply isn’t ACC caliber. It’s maddening to watch as a fan.

Perhaps Naheem was hurt earlier in the season, but the DNP’s didn’t make sense.

Why didnt Cuffe come in for Carlos and Taylor for Bell in that game end sequence?

The problem to me is that the bench is too long. Players don’t know their role, so a guy like Cuffe feels empowered to chuck that late three.

Shorten the bench. Define who your scorers are, and feed them until they fail. Deal harshly with those who do things outside of the game plan. There is not enough structure.

Naheem Cuffe and Moore are my biggest What.
Neither of them get more than tiny amounts of playing time.
Cuffe, my fave, had regressed horribly since he put up big numbers around the ND game.
He was playing well so of course Red drastically cut his minutes down.
Back to 7-8 minutes a game. Now he is desperate to do something he just chucks. Sigh.
Moore can be playing great or playing like crap.
It doesn’t matter - he starts and gets about 8 minutes a game.
No development for the freshman at all.
Frankly Cuffe and Moore should hit the transfer portal Pronto.
Naheem clearly has a lot to give but no clue why he has been glued to the bench in all but a few games. And clearly Red has no faith in him.

And I have no faith in Red.

 

[Red2003]

I don’t know what the lowest point was, but here’s a few choices.
-Cuffe coming off the bench and firing up a wild three that never had a chance on the biggest possession of the game. Earlier in the season, I admired Cuffe for sitting on the bench, staying ready and playing well when he had a chance. He has turned into a selfish chucker and I’ve seen enough.
-For the second straight game Petar committing a foul as the shot clock winds down 40 feet away from the basket. On both occasions, he ran at the player with the ball wildly with no regard for not committing a foul. That has to be fixed.
-i’m guessing the analytics guru we have on the bench was not on board with taking a two point shot when we were down by six with 12 seconds left. That effectively ended the game.
-Carlos got absolutely toasted by Cadeau off the dribble even though everyone watching the game knew that Cadeau can’t shoot from the outside and of course nobody decided to come off their man and help on the biggest defensive stand of the game. Why wouldn’t the staff have Carlos play 5 feet off of Cadeau and beg him to shoot? Ona related note Carlos was one for seven from the field and saw fit to take the majority of those shots in the paint against much bigger defenders.
-Eddie played hard and was effective on offense and at the line but he was absolutely atrocious on defense. It might be that once again he was asked to play over 30 minutes and he’s out of shape but I don’t know if red really had a choice in that regard. Maybe he would not get repeatedly beat on defense if he was in shape but that’s just a guess.
-last, Bell disgraced himself by blatantly refusing to go after a rebound in the first half. Words cannot describe how tired I am of that particular player.

You stole most of what I saw. Now to back it up with facts. 2-16 from Carlos, Cuffe, Bell. Scored 82 points still. Terrible on both ends. 2 Jrs and a Sr.

 

[ROCcuse]

Sure. We've started most games with the 5 guys on the floor that we want. Not every game, but most games.

That's a plan for a game.

"There was a miscommunication over who was starting."

 

[Red2003]

Honestly, at this point, I’m willing to blame Red specifically for this season.

Per all accounts from people “in the know”, the staff loved Carlos and felt we had a great roster. This isn’t a situation where he said it in the press or anything. This is the back door PR channels. Like when people said Hughes or Wes were studs before we saw them. We have plenty of receipts saying it from people we all believe.

So that tells me he was the problem with the roster evaluation and, of course, his game day coaching has been horrible. This is on him

He should be blamed but it's been talked about to death we lost our first choice in Leffew, just money. You don't start your season telling the outside world we couldn't get the guy so we got our far less talented backup guy.

 

[xc84]

That's fine, but 3 of our 5 starters last night have 4+ years of college experience (Taylor, Davis, Lampkin) and another has 3 (Starling).

4 of the 5 guys who came off the bench have 3+ years of college experience (Bell, McLeod, Carlos, Cuffe).

This is a VERY experienced team. Blaming AAU 4 years after these guys last played it seems like incredibly thin gruel.

We both agree that they SHOULD be able to play D. 3 of the 4 you note are transfers so SU is not the only responsible team. I am not blaming AAU. AAU is an exposure tool but in general doesn’t care about D. Players must still learn D skills or they will end up in college with opponents blowing by them like we are seeing.