USA East Coast Basketball trip with Benny Williams

[Orangezoo]

My concern as well. He was a pretty good shooter in HS, but it doesn't appear to be translating [yet].

And if he lacks perimeter scoring capability / a handle to face the basket and create, then his best path toward being a contributor this year is as an undersized but quick, uber-athletic 4 in the mold of Hak / Damone / Grant. Doesn't seem like he's comfortable playing inside, though.

What is so weird is if you watch him at IMG, his approach and process when shooting was different. As was his decision making. On the ball he still had that lower the shoulder with head down tendency that is such a bad habit for a player like him but his footwork and release off a catch was smooth at IMG with no mechanical pauses like he has now. Also when he did go up to finish at the rim he was direct and went strong. Since getting here its often been too much finesse. I will say if you go back and watch more highlights a lot of non dunk drives its not clean very often but still better tendencies and approach.

Not sure who is working with him, especially with his shot- but it's had a very poor outcome on his game even if he was maybe a tad overrated.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[AlaskaSU]

Was really hoping he would play to his potential in November, but I'm not sure that's going to happen based on these scouting reports. I could see it unfolding in a way where Benny starts the season looking more or less the same, especially on offense, and we just hope that with solid playing time he starts figuring it out by middle to end of the season. In that scenario, I'm not sure if we'll win enough games to make the tournament, but hopefully we do and hopefully he's starting to come alive by then. He'll really need to be good on defense all year, and let the offense come to him.

If you do not produce you do not get solid playing time. Games are not for practice. We play to win every game.
3 guards and Bunch?

 

[Cuse'91]

Guys, I think I have the fix for Benny's game. No more Benny, he's now Ben Williams to me.

 

[orangefog]

Screw that, you guys give up too easily. Benny is going to contribute this year. Having his buddy Judah with him will help a ton.

 

[Orangezoo]

Screw that, you guys give up too easily. Benny is going to contribute this year. Having his buddy Judah with him will help a ton.

Not giving up. Just following what the eyes are seeing.

 

[Orangezoo]

Second or third lowest output on the team given one guy didn't score or have a steal and another no assist. But that guy had 5 boards. Oof

 

[rrlbees]

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[Zelda Zonk]

Not giving up. Just following what the eyes are seeing.

Yeah, i'm with you. Feels like when your baseball team is struggling, but it's still just the first 30 games of the season, and all the 'forum experts' are saying "it's a long season," but you're actually seeing now portends the future. Yeah, it was just a long-distance, low-res practice video, but he was barely involved and not demonstrating anything different from what we saw last year. And then the game... Not a starter, insignificant results.

For a person who knows he really has to turn it around from a major disappointment last year, i didn't see a player with a lot of fire or determination or a plan. We can sit here and make the old 'cuses about how it's the wrong format and situation for this type of player—our guys thrive in a system and not with a bunch of shoot-first guard gunners, or whatever... but if you're a dog (and i hate that term, but it's common parlance—you know what i mean), you're going to make yourself shine in whatever game situation. Or at least make the impression that you're someone to be reckoned with.

Just look at that twitter photo. Barely in the picture. No sweat. Coverup tee on. That's not what you want to see from a Syracuse player expected to be a significant contributor.

But, yeah—still early. This means nothing. And i'll be happy as a clam to acknowledge i was wrong. Really, really, really hope i'm wrong. I'm sure he'll be better in our system—that's realistic. But, the 'ceiling' feels lower than it did just a few days ago.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Ok- I don't know what you guys were watching but after reading some of the PBP, I half expected Benny to faceplant every time down the court.
IMHO, he looked much more assertive and moved better than anyone else on the USA side- the kid stood out. Would I have liked him to be more assertive and demand the ball a bit more? Sure. But it wasn't like he was totally clueless out there, and his defense looked pretty good.
Best word to describe what I watched was...bouncy. He looked like the puppy who starts to figure out how his various parts work together. I saw improvement, not bright hot, but improvement nonetheless. Let's see how he looks when he gets plays actually run for him, instead of just around him.

 

[stlorange]

Guys, believe in what your eyes see, not in what your mind/heart hopes to see.
I'm always hopeful before the season but I'm afraid it's gonna be a long year... our d should be better but we will have trouble scoring.

 

[Orangezoo]

Ok- I don't know what you guys were watching but after reading some of the PBP, I half expected Benny to faceplant every time down the court.
IMHO, he looked much more assertive and moved better than anyone else on the USA side- the kid stood out. Would I have liked him to be more assertive and demand the ball a bit more? Sure. But it wasn't like he was totally clueless out there, and his defense looked pretty good.
Best word to describe what I watched was...bouncy. He looked like the puppy who starts to figure out how his various parts work together. I saw improvement, not bright hot, but improvement nonetheless. Let's see how he looks when he gets plays actually run for him, instead of just around him.

Come on- no one was being unreasonable. I was analytical in my comments and spoke to the specifics. He was bouncy last year too. He was hesitant on the boards still playing unsure of himself as you even comment. It's year 2. He had near bottom production on a team of guys where he should be at least amongst the top 5. I'm not being a hater cynic here. It's not clicking in terms of being more aggressive in all facets. Some good cameos would explain his freshman year. If that is what he still is and also a position less player then its a disappointment. Not he is a disappointment just his game at this point given the importance placed on him as a recruit. Great kid that goes without saying.

I'm looking for him to be better the next game and so on. This season though we need more than that if we want to win games. If he can hit a jumper off a screen all year then great that's a plus.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Come on- no one was being unreasonable. I was analytical in my comments and spoke to the specifics. He was bouncy last year too. He was hesitant on the boards still playing unsure of himself as you even comment. It's year 2. He had near bottom production on a team of guys where he should be at least amongst the top 5. I'm not being a hater cynic here. It's not clicking in terms of being more aggressive in all facets. Some good cameos would explain his freshman year. If that is what he still is and also a position less player then its a disappointment. Not he is a disappointment just his game at this point given the importance placed on him as a recruit. Great kid that goes without saying.

I'm looking for him to be better the next game and so on. This season though we need more than that if we want to win games. If he can hit a jumper off a screen all year then great that's a plus.

Fair enough. But I never said, nor used the word unreasonable. We’re all just expressing opinions here, and we all want the same thing.
I saw…some things that I liked from Benny, and like everyone else, I hope to see more.
I think there’s a touch of PTSD in some of the commentary about his game today, and i certainly expect we’ll get a fuller picture watching these next few games.
But all in all , I thought he did pretty well. Jmho

 

[Orangezoo]

Fair enough. But I never said, nor used the word unreasonable. We’re all just expressing opinions here, and we all want the same thing.
I saw…some things that I liked from Benny, and like everyone else, I hope to see more.
I think there’s a touch of PTSD in some of the commentary about his game today, and i certainly expect we’ll get a fuller picture watching these next few games.
But all in all , I thought he did pretty well. Jmho

I was mainly pointing to the fall on his face comment. I want to see more and soon. The practice video plus game is what worries me. Not giving up as I noted before too. Just at this point it's a caution flag let's call it.

 

[Cuse'91]

Fair enough. But I never said, nor used the word unreasonable. We’re all just expressing opinions here, and we all want the same thing.
I saw…some things that I liked from Benny, and like everyone else, I hope to see more.
I think there’s a touch of PTSD in some of the commentary about his game today, and i certainly expect we’ll get a fuller picture watching these next few games.
But all in all , I thought he did pretty well. Jmho

I mean, he has to be from one of the biggest name programs on that roster, right? No one is expecting Billy Owens' junior year out of him; but, even those low expectations are proving troublesome.

 

[Phillymoose]

Ok- I don't know what you guys were watching but after reading some of the PBP, I half expected Benny to faceplant every time down the court.
IMHO, he looked much more assertive and moved better than anyone else on the USA side- the kid stood out. Would I have liked him to be more assertive and demand the ball a bit more? Sure. But it wasn't like he was totally clueless out there, and his defense looked pretty good.
Best word to describe what I watched was...bouncy. He looked like the puppy who starts to figure out how his various parts work together. I saw improvement, not bright hot, but improvement nonetheless. Let's see how he looks when he gets plays actually run for him, instead of just around him.

I watched first and then read the board comments afterwards. I completely agree with you.

I saw him being extremely active - often out on the breaks and hustling back on defense. He had a few assists screwed up by teammates - and a few dead man rebounds he could have had over teammates. I thought I remembered seeing a very athletic put back that just missed. His bucket was a very nice mid-range jumper that is not guard-able. The 3 was a clean look and decent form - he just missed it. If I had a concern it was with his other mid-range jumper that was flat - and reminded me a bit of last year.

I thought his first step was assertive and fast, and then he was actually unselfish on a few occasions. I am way more hopeful than the assessments here. I agree he needs to be around the basket and want to see what his touch looks like. I thought he was USA's most active big-man by far.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I mean, he has to be from one of the biggest name programs on that roster, right? No one is expecting Billy Owens' junior year out of him; but, even those low expectations are proving troublesome.

Honestly, I see more Ryan Blackwell than Billy Owens in his game.
Is that worthy of 5star expectations- probably not. But I can see JB carving out a productive role for him.
I think Benny gets better and becomes a good/very good player…this year.
I think the Benny we saw at Duke is who we’re gonna get most nights. We shall see.

 

[Cuse'91]

Honestly, I see more Ryan Blackwell than Billy Owens in his game.
Is that worthy of 5star expectations- probably not. But I can see JB carving out a productive role for him.
I think Benny gets better and becomes a good/very good player…this year.
I think the Benny we saw at Duke is who we’re gonna get most nights. We shall see.

Fwiw, I would be thrilled if Ben grades out to Ryan Blackwell. We didn't really get to see Ryan as a true frosh, since he came by way of Illinois. But, i remember Blackwell being an efficient player; one that maximized his talents.

 

[Giants1973]

Fwiw, I would be thrilled if Ben grades out to Ryan Blackwell. We didn't really get to see Ryan as a true frosh, since he came by way of Illinois. But, i remember Blackwell being an efficient player; one that maximized his talents.

Blackwell Ave. 12 and 8 his sophomore yr. If Benny does that . Cuse has a good shot at Ncaa

 

[AlaskaSU]

Blackwell Ave. 12 and 8 his sophomore yr. If Benny does that . Cuse has a good shot at Ncaa

Blackwell got drafted by the NBA. My best comp for Benny is the anti-Moten. High expectations, low production, ugly shot, head down dribble charge.

 

[Cuse'91]

Blackwell got drafted by the NBA. My best comp for Benny is the anti-Moten. High expectations, low production, ugly shot, head down dribble charge.

Ryan Blackwell was picked in the NBA Draft?

 

[donniesyracuse]

Blackwell got drafted by the NBA.

 

[Orangezoo]

I can appreciate the Bullish takes on Benny as well. I need to see another couple games before feeling that way.

Given what he can do on the court I do think expectations of his contributions make more sense to look at what Andre Jackson did at UConn. AJ is a great athlete and good passer and a tough defender. Benny can be all those things. No matter what, that puts more on younger shoulders offensively but it's still an useful piece. We badly need defense.

 

[RF2044]

According to coach he was not a good shooter in HS. He will be a token starter.

Coach says stuff.

Orangezoo nails it below.

What is so weird is if you watch him at IMG, his approach and process when shooting was different. As was his decision making. On the ball he still had that lower the shoulder with head down tendency that is such a bad habit for a player like him but his footwork and release off a catch was smooth at IMG with no mechanical pauses like he has now. Also when he did go up to finish at the rim he was direct and went strong. Since getting here its often been too much finesse. I will say if you go back and watch more highlights a lot of non dunk drives its not clean very often but still better tendencies and approach.

Not sure who is working with him, especially with his shot- but it's had a very poor outcome on his game even if he was maybe a tad overrated.

Agreed -- his mechanics and release seem completely different.

 

[RF2044]

Ok- I don't know what you guys were watching but after reading some of the PBP, I half expected Benny to faceplant every time down the court.
IMHO, he looked much more assertive and moved better than anyone else on the USA side- the kid stood out. Would I have liked him to be more assertive and demand the ball a bit more? Sure. But it wasn't like he was totally clueless out there, and his defense looked pretty good.
Best word to describe what I watched was...bouncy. He looked like the puppy who starts to figure out how his various parts work together. I saw improvement, not bright hot, but improvement nonetheless. Let's see how he looks when he gets plays actually run for him, instead of just around him.

A couple of years ago, I was extremely hopeful that Jalen Carey was going to make the sophomore leap that many of our players seem to have. He participated on this same tournament, and I made a bunch of posts about how useful it would be for him to hone his lead guard skills, get some extra games under his belt after a wasted freshman season, etc. Many of the same things that are being said about Benny in the present tense.

Then, the games started and Carey wasn't especially good. Don't worry -- I posted, he's trying to run the offense more than score, he's trying to get his teammates involved, etc. Might have had one nice game or two out of the entire tour, but otherwise -- poor performance.

And because of that, the buzz started about the likelihood that Carey WOULDN'T take that next step and be the player we need him to be. Don't worry -- I posted, this was a good developmental experience, and everything will be all right when he gets back on campus into a familiar system...

Now, Benny's story is still being written, far too early to write him off, but I'm seeing parallels. Sophomore that the team is counting on to make substantial improvement, but very little evidence that he has.

Here's hoping his trajectory is different than Carey's. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.