Va Tech Thoughts...

[djcon57]

That's fine. I want him to stay. I don't want him to start now.

Brown and JT have shown a much more multi-faceted game. I would like them both to start over Bell and Benny.

I'm not here to massage someone's ego or feelings. We need wins and need them now.

Again, I like Bell. I like Benny. But I don't like losing.

Additionally this isnt a frosh vs a jr or sr.

Taylor and Brown are going to be here. We want THEM to stay. Because they are better. Better players should play more. I know, crazy concept.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Bell is just a catch and shoot guy. One of his two rebounds was because the ball happened to bounce to him in wide open space.

It's funny though because when that happens to anyone other than Bell it's not noticed and nobody really cares.

Look every time our team starts slow for whatever reason almost every time Bell comes out of the lineup we turn it around it is like clockwork.

On the other hand, Bell very frequently scores one of our first baskets if you check out our play by play.

We've got a weird infatuation with Bell on the board.

 

[phil77]

It's funny though because when that happens to anyone other than Bell it's not noticed and nobody really cares.

On the other hand, Bell very frequently scores one of our first baskets if you check out our play by play.

We've got a weird infatuation with Bell on the board.

That makes sense because he can shoot but can't do anything else to help the team. So that sort of lines up with the theory that the team is better when he isn't on the floor and the numbers back that up.

 

[MikeSU02]

It's funny though because when that happens to anyone other than Bell it's not noticed and nobody really cares.

On the other hand, Bell very frequently scores one of our first baskets if you check out our play by play.

We've got a weird infatuation with Bell on the board.

Because he isn't good right now. He has less than an 11 PER.

he has or had the lowest or second lowest %s for rebounding, assists, etc out of all the forwards.

He is not good.

Anyone focusing on catch and shoot isn't focusing on wins.

 

[djcon57]

That makes sense because he can shoot but can't do anything else to help the team. So that sort of lines up with the theory that the team is better when he isn't on the floor and the numbers back that up.

Yeah, I don't get the inability for some to just accept the basic numbers we are seeing. Brown and Taylor are better. Bell can shoot and could be a good spot player this year in games we are struggling to score. That's it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Because he isn't good right now. He has less than an 11 PER.

he has or had the lowest or second lowest %s for rebounding, assists, etc out of all the forwards.

He is not good.

Anyone focusing on catch and shoot isn't focusing on wins.

I'm not saying he's been great.

I'm more making a commentary about the board discussion around him.

There's cognitive dissonance on the board because Bell looks like he should be JB's whipping boy, and he's not really.

Edited to add: And this goes beyond "he's not been good." He gets an outsized amount of attention from the board, primarily negative.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Agree that Joe played very well. I really liked the activity level on offense. No standing around but not dribbling aimlessly either. When you get the defense moving, you create angles and spacing for dribble drives and P&Rs and you make it harder for teams to double Jesse in the post.

The team seeds to feed off of Maliq's energy. It's frustrating that they need a hyperactive freshman to get them engaged like that, but whatever works. Need Jesse to finish those point-blank shots, though.

I'm on board with Maliq starting over Benny moving forward, but it took me a bit to get there. On one hand, who starts isn't *that* important as long as the right players are playing the most minutes in the end like they did last night, and when Benny's locked in it clearly raises our potential. On the other, slow starts have really set us back in our losses and Benny's been a big part of that. The thing I keep coming back to is that pretty much all of Benny's good games have come against the worst teams on our schedule with the exception of the St. John's game, and even they've proven to not be very good. He's had enough chances. And who knows, maybe he'd ultimately respond well to getting benched, though I wouldn't bet on it. Seems like JB's tried everything else.

 

[Newhouser]

Let’s remember Benny was coming off illness. At this point he is erratic, but the times we have seen Best Benny he has been pretty good.

Yeah, Brown has been our most consistent forward, but he has also had a couple of clunker games.

I actually think Jimmy has done fairly well with this group in terms of finding and playing the hot hands. At this point brown and Taylor are stepping up a bit more, but let’s not count out Chris and Benny.

Exactly - the one thing I applaud JB for this year is his willingness to make line up changes. He may not make them as fast as some of us would like, but unlike the previous few years, it doesn't appear anyone is immune from the yank if they are not doing their job - Jesse and Joe included. Frosh have up and down games so all of them have to be ready and same with Benny.

 

[Newhouser]

Maliq is type of player we need. He does all the dirty work and will fill a stat sheet.
He reminds of a player like Dale Davis on the Pacers. He isn’t going to shoot but we get rebounds and junk points.
We need a player like this on the roster to balance out the offense first players.

Coach Boeheim found a keeper with Maliq Brown. He is a type of player on those Villanova teams that would kill us on the glass and surround their guards.

Guys who can positively impact the game without requiring shots are invaluable at every level of basketball. That is what we have in Mr. Brown.

 

[CousCuse]

Agree that Joe played very well. I really liked the activity level on offense. No standing around but not dribbling aimlessly either. When you get the defense moving, you create angles and spacing for dribble drives and P&Rs and you make it harder for teams to double Jesse in the post.

The team seeds to feed off of Maliq's energy. It's frustrating that they need a hyperactive freshman to get them engaged like that, but whatever works. Need Jesse to finish those point-blank shots, though.

I'm on board with Maliq starting over Benny moving forward, but it took me a bit to get there. On one hand, who starts isn't *that* important as long as the right players are playing the most minutes in the end like they did last night, and when Benny's locked in it clearly raises our potential. On the other, slow starts have really set us back in our losses and Benny's been a big part of that. The thing I keep coming back to is that pretty much all of Benny's good games have come against the worst teams on our schedule with the exception of the St. John's game, and even they've proven to not be very good. He's had enough chances. And who knows, maybe he'd ultimately respond well to getting benched, though I wouldn't bet on it. Seems like JB's tried everything else.

High level recruits are going to get some preferential treatment as long as their coaches still believe in them. If you treat high level recruits like they're developmental projects, your not going to land any more of them.

 

[SWC75]

JB has said Bell isn’t a 2 because he can’t handle the ball well enough. He’s kind of in between right now because he’s not strong enough to play the 3. He’s 6’7 180 while Taylor is 6’6 205 (but looks like he weighs more than that). They really haven’t run many plays for either Bell or Taylor other than sometimes that one at the top of the key. Bell has a nice stroke. Only problem is his 3 point shot is more of a flat footed set shot and he needs space to get it off. Taylor is much better shooting off the move and has elevation and a quick release which helps against good man to man defenses

And he seems to ‘get the roll’ a lot. With Bell, it’s either in or CLANG!

 

[Red Holzman]

I don't live and die with SU hoops-
But waking up to a new day is much nicer after a "retro" inspired display of good SU basketball...

 

[SWC75]

Let’s remember Benny was coming off illness. At this point he is erratic, but the times we have seen Best Benny he has been pretty good.

Yeah, Brown has been our most consistent forward, but he has also had a couple of clunker games.

I actually think Jimmy has done fairly well with this group in terms of finding and playing the hot hands. At this point brown and Taylor are stepping up a bit more, but let’s not count out Chris and Benny.

I could see Chris as another D-Nic but I don’t think he was starting at this point. Could Benny be Damone Brown?

 

[CousCuse]

And he seems to ‘get the roll’ a lot. With Bell, it’s either in or CLANG!

Both of them are hesitant at times, which is understandable. WHEN they get past that, soon now, things are going to get real interesting.

 

[malpearl31]

That's fine. I want him to stay. I don't want him to start now.

Brown and JT have shown a much more multi-faceted game. I would like them both to start over Bell and Benny.

I'm not here to massage someone's ego or feelings. We need wins and need them now.

Again, I like Bell. I like Benny. But I don't like losing.

But if you’re the coach - and you really do want a kid to stay - and you believe that pulling him from the starting lineup would increase the chances that he leaves… why take that risk? I think that JB is actually handling this pretty well… he has adjusted the playing time over the past 10 games so that Taylor is now playing more minutes than Bell. Like it or not, managing egos and feelings is part of the equation.

The real interesting thing to me, going forward, is what happens with Benny. Will JB keep Benny in the starting lineup, but play Maliq 30+ minutes off the bench? Or will he start Maliq, perhaps because Benny is more likely to transfer out anyways? (Pure speculation on my part, but given the frequency of transfers these days, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.)

I feel for Benny and will continue to root for him to figure it out here… but ultimately, I don’t think he has the mentality to consistently rebound and defend as a 4 the way JB wants (Maliq is simply better at that) - and he doesn’t shoot or score well enough on the perimeter to be a true 3 (Taylor and Bell are better there). Maybe JB finds a way to get Benny some more minutes as a 3 going forward, but that’s tricky because that means taking away minutes from Taylor or Bell.

 

[SWC75]

Keeping Bell in the starting lineup may be the best way to ensure that he doesn’t jump to the portal, so that if he develops over the course of the next couple of years (as most freshman do), he does it at SU instead of someplace else. Taylor has played more minutes than Bell in each of the last 5 games, so the folks who believe that Taylor is a big upgrade are getting what they want (more Taylor, less Bell).

JB says the starting lineup is based 100 percent on how they practice.

 

[orangecuse]

Why can't they win the league regular season? Tied for second right now.

Well, I didn't imply they couldn't. However, you do not get an automatic bid by winning the regular season, only the ACCT winner does. That was the crux of my post in response to the winning the next two games and we'll be 'lurking' post.

Being tied for 2nd place in the conference at this time only solidifies to the nth degree just how putrid the conference is this year. Not to mention, the two teams that we played in the conference to date worth a darn, Pitt and UVA, both had 2nd half 20 point leads and blowing us out of the gym before losing their competitive spirit, getting sloppy, extensive late scoring droughts, etc. The final scores of both of those games does not accurately portray what actually occurred throughout most of them.

 

[MikeSU02]

But if you’re the coach - and you really do want a kid to stay - and you believe that pulling him from the starting lineup would increase the chances that he leaves… why take that risk? I think that JB is actually handling this pretty well… he has adjusted the playing time over the past 10 games so that Taylor is now playing more minutes than Bell. Like it or not, managing egos and feelings is part of the equation.

The real interesting thing to me, going forward, is what happens with Benny. Will JB keep Benny in the starting lineup, but play Maliq 30+ minutes off the bench? Or will he start Maliq, perhaps because Benny is more likely to transfer out anyways? (Pure speculation on my part, but given the frequency of transfers these days, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.)

I feel for Benny and will continue to root for him to figure it out here… but ultimately, I don’t think he has the mentality to consistently rebound and defend as a 4 the way JB wants (Maliq is simply better at that) - and he doesn’t shoot or score well enough on the perimeter to be a true 3 (Taylor and Bell are better there). Maybe JB finds a way to get Benny some more minutes as a 3 going forward, but that’s tricky because that means taking away minutes from Taylor or Bell.

Because you are pushing out Brown and JT by starting someone who makes us lose.

Why does Bell get to be treated with kid gloves and not the guys that are helping us? Can you imagine of Brown and JT bolt because we stayed with Bell and Benny and kept losing?

 

[UpstateSM]

Bell should play like 8-10 minutes off the bench on most nights and maybe(?) 20 minutes when he gets hot. No way he should get more burn overall than Taylor. He just doesn’t contribute to winning it enough, right now.

I think he can develop into an ACC-level starter if the want-to is there.

 

[CousCuse]

Well, I didn't imply they couldn't. However, you do not get an automatic bid by winning the regular season, only the ACCT winner does. That was the crux of my post in response to the winning the next two games and we'll be 'lurking' post.

Being tied for 2nd place in the conference at this time only solidifies to the nth degree just how putrid the conference is this year. Not to mention, the two teams that we played in the conference to date worth a darn, Pitt and UVA, both had 2nd half 20 point leads and blowing us out of the gym before losing their competitive spirit, getting sloppy, extensive late scoring droughts, etc. The final scores of both of those games does not accurately portray what actually occurred throughout most of them.

Any team who wins the ACC is a 100% lock for the NCAAT. This team is getting better and will be a tough out going forward.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bell should play like 8-10 minutes off the bench on most nights and maybe(?) 20 minutes when he gets hot. No way he should get more burn overall than Taylor. He just doesn’t contribute to winning it enough, right now.

I think he can develop into an ACC-level starter if the want-to is there.

I think the long term plan is probably Bell at the 3 and Taylor at the 2, but Bell needs to make a big improvement on defense and rebounding to be an ACC level starter.

As much as I like Taylor I think he's better as a 3 than a 2 due to his lack of ball handling skills. I know we knocked Joe's handle as a pg, but as a 2 its above average and he really helps Mintz out when needed there.

 

[TheCusian]

Because you are pushing out Brown and JT by starting someone who makes us lose.

Why does Bell get to be treated with kid gloves and not the guys that are helping us? Can you imagine of Brown and JT bolt because we stayed with Bell and Benny and kept losing?

these kinds of takes always focus on stats (we see it easily) and not on player psychology and relationship (no real insight)

Maybe Brown is a guy who needs to come off the bench and Bell is a guy who needs the start for them to become what the staff thinks they'll become

 

[MikeSU02]

these kinds of takes always focus on stats (we see it easily) and not on player psychology and relationship (no real insight)

Maybe Brown is a guy who needs to come off the bench and Bell is a guy who needs the start for them to become what the staff thinks they'll become

We aren't good. We were good when we change.

All the real stats that we should be focusing on say otherwise to your point.

But maybe the sun will come up in the west tomorrow as well. Who really knows. /s

 

[M2MPrinciples]

High level recruits are going to get some preferential treatment as long as their coaches still believe in them. If you treat high level recruits like they're developmental projects, your not going to land any more of them.

I'd respond to that by saying if someone who's earned playing time sits behind someone who hasn't for long enough, you risk that player bolting. And Benny is 1.5 years into his career. He's obviously not a finished product but he's played 60% of available minutes this year and got chances early last year before it became clear that he wasn't ready.

And I don't mind JB continuing to roll with Benny, to be clear. Fortunately, we know pretty early in any given game he starts whether he'll be a positive or not. And next up are two games where we'll be favored, against Notre Dame and Georgia Tech (sandwiched between a game at Miami), so maybe he can string a couple good outings together and calm some of this debate. But the downside to staying with him for too long is worth considering too.

 

[VA2NY]

Because you are pushing out Brown and JT by starting someone who makes us lose.

Why does Bell get to be treated with kid gloves and not the guys that are helping us? Can you imagine of Brown and JT bolt because we stayed with Bell and Benny and kept losing?

Exactly! Much rather keep Brown and JT happy especially in the long run. Seem like two team guys who just play hard and do what it takes to win. They’ve waited patiently for their turn and it seems like they’ve earned the playing time over Bell and Benny. Both are from Virginia. Can you imagine if they became frustrated and left Syracuse to go to Va. Tech or UVA? That would hurt