Washington v Gonzaga

[jncuse]

I would have to agree from the little I've watched of them. Hop has three 5 star players and plays in a mediocre PAC 12, Syracuse fans would burn down the Dome if the team was on the bubble with the talent Hop has recruited?

Pac 12 by the metrics is as good, if not slightly better than the ACC this year. It's not a strong conference, but they will get 2 or 3 more seeds then they normally do.

Basically Washington does not need to do as well in conference (record wise) as prior years to get in the tournament this year.

Not to say they are not currently riding the bubble. The current bracket matrix has them as a 9 seed which isn't really much of a gap.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Figure it out.

No thanks cryptic guy.

Find me any big big man coaches yet?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well this thread will be locked in due time.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

No thanks cryptic guy.

Find me any big big man coaches yet?

Sure have, but you need to unlock my riddle first.

 

[Alsacs]

People keep saying mediocre PAC 12, but I’m hearing they may get as many bids as the ACC. Guess that means acc is mediocre this year as well.

ACC is down this year. No doubt about that. It is still better than Pac-12 though.
I happen to think come March though Louisville is a good bet to make the Final Four.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Duke lost to SFA, at home.

You mean #2 Duke?

UCLA also lost by 10 to Hofstra. At home.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Sure have, but you need to unlock my riddle first.

I don’t believe you.

 

[jncuse]

ACC is down this year, but the Pac 12 blows every year.

The Pac-12 got 7 bids in 2016 (just 3 tournaments ago). Their metrics this out of conference season were not as good as 2016, but they were better than 2017-2019, where in certain years they were even behind the American Conference.

As a matter of comparison. As of now:
- In the bracket matrix ACC has 5 teams in, Pac 12 has 5 teams in.

Based on NET

Per Conference SRS, from college-basketball reference con

The ACC and SEC have got many bids the last few years, and will lose some. The biggest benefactors of them losing those seeds will be the Big10 and the Pac-12.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

The Pac-12 got 7 bids in 2016 (just 3 tournaments ago). Their metrics this out of conference season were not as good as 2016, but they were better than 2017-2019, where in certain years they were even behind the American Conference.

As a matter of comparison. As of now:
- In the bracket matrix ACC has 5 teams in, Pac 12 has 5 teams in.

Based on NET

View attachment 174821

Per Conference SRS, from college-basketball reference con
View attachment 174819


The ACC and SEC have got many bids the last few years, and will lose some. The biggest benefactors of them losing those seeds will be the Big10 and the Pac-12.

Was 2016 the year 5 of those 7 Pac 12 teams lost in the first round?

 

[jncuse]

ACC is down this year. No doubt about that. It is still better than Pac-12 though.
I happen to think come March though Louisville is a good bet to make the Final Four.

They are not better than the PAC-12 when it comes down to team selections. Maybe at the top few teams. But the PAC-12 conference metrics as of now are slightly better which should help there middle of the pick teams get in this year more than middle of the pack ACC teams.

That being said the ACC does have one positive factor this year that did not exist in prior year. They have a 20 game in conference schedule, and I believe the PAC-12 only has 18... should help the computer numbers and could add an extra quad one or quad two win, which could make that difference between getting in or out for one team.

 

[jncuse]

Was 2016 the year 5 of those 7 Pac 12 teams lost in the first round?

Yes. But it is not really relevant when we are talking about the composition of the 2020 tournament

Is the ACC better than the PAC-12. Maybe - but they go by the numbers, and conference profiles are essentially locked now that out of conference play is done.

In the two prior years, the PAC 12 was a disaster in OOC play, This year it is OK. It's an OK conference this year at least numbers wise.

The tournament is always decided on the floor I agree with that. If you think the ACC is better than the PAC-12 on the floor I will not disagree.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Yes. But it is not really relevant when we are talking about the composition of the 2020 tournament

Is the ACC better than the PAC-12. Maybe - but they go by the numbers, and conference profiles are essentially locked now that out of conference play is done.

In the two prior years, the PAC 12 was a disaster in OOC play, This year it is OK. It's an OK conference this year at least numbers wise.

The tournament is always decided on the floor I agree with that. If you think the ACC is better than the PAC-12 on the floor I will not disagree.

Correct, nothing to do with this season, but it’s relevant when it comes to national perception. The Pac 12 has been down for years, and I don’t recall much success at all in recent history. You’re saying it’s an OK conference which is better than ”blows” but I’ve seen nothing that suggests they have many very good teams, or even a potential Final Four team.

 

[two3zone]

Correct, nothing to do with this season, but it’s relevant when it comes to national perception. The Pac 12 has been down for years, and I don’t recall much success at all in recent history. You’re saying it’s an OK conference which is better than ”blows” but I’ve seen nothing that suggests they have many very good teams, or even a potential Final Four team.

Its destroyed recruiting out west for them.

 

[Alsacs]

Pac 12 by the metrics is as good, if not slightly better than the ACC this year. It's not a strong conference, but they will get 2 or 3 more seeds then they normally do.

Basically Washington does not need to do as well in conference (record wise) as prior years to get in the tournament this year.

Not to say they are not currently riding the bubble. The current bracket matrix has them as a 9 seed which isn't really much of a gap.

Outside of Oregon I wonder how the computer numbers are good for the Pac-12.
Colorado/Arizona haven't been world beaters.
Washington is a tournament.
I don't see another tournament team in that conference. St. Mary's embarrassed Arizona State.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Its destroyed recruiting out west for them.

Could be. Maybe a lack of good coaches as well? Not sure. Recruiting scandals at USC and Arizona, along with rumors at Oregon.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The Pac-12 got 7 bids in 2016 (just 3 tournaments ago). Their metrics this out of conference season were not as good as 2016, but they were better than 2017-2019, where in certain years they were even behind the American Conference.

As a matter of comparison. As of now:
- In the bracket matrix ACC has 5 teams in, Pac 12 has 5 teams in.

Based on NET

View attachment 174821

Per Conference SRS, from college-basketball reference con
View attachment 174819


The ACC and SEC have got many bids the last few years, and will lose some. The biggest benefactors of them losing those seeds will be the Big10 and the Pac-12.

5 out of 12 vs 5 out of 14.

The ACC is a shtshow.

 

[rrlbees]

Fans are starting to turn on Hop. I don’t think he deserves it, but he didn’t have his best coaching game today. Made a critical error in going zone with a backup big on the last possession which led to an open 3 by a guy who was on fire all night.

UW is talented but way too sloppy. Stewart and Green look good. McDaniels looks like a mess, he has been terrible except for a couple games. He fouled out with 15 minutes to go in the game, and picked up a tech on the bench in the first half for his fourth foul. Kid has some growing up to do fast.

Probably the best part of you guys losing out on Hop is you didn’t get Wright. One of the worst offensive players in D1. He is shooting sub 30% for his second consecutive season and struggles to score more than 5 points when he plays 30 minutes a game.

the fans are turning on hop already? That’s laughable. They don’t deserve him then. He’ll be back in Syracuse soon.

 

[Jake]

Watched much of the game last night. They just don’t have any offensive balance...or an identity. He desperately needs a shooter to stretch that defense.

Defensively, they are fine...though as others have pointed out, Q at the top of the zone isn’t ideal.

Hamir Wright reminds me of Terrance Roberts. Great athlete, not a great skilled player. In fact, his team kind of reminds me of those early Roberts, Nichols, Watkins years. Lots of athletes, not much offensive cohesion...with a PG that has to function as a primary shooter.

Stewart and Quade are solid. McDaniels is young and inconsistent. Wright is borderline useless unless he’s in transition, and Carter puts up numbers, but he doesn’t make winning plays IMO.

I wish he’d get Bey more minutes and more shots. He would force defenders to extend and open up entry lanes for Stewart.

They looked awful last night. UCLA extended their defense and exposed Wright and got under McDanials chin and he didn’t handle it well.

Hop needs a second ball handler and a shooter.

 

[two3zone]

Watched much of the game last night. They just don’t have any offensive balance...or an identity. He desperately needs a shooter to stretch that defense.

Defensively, they are fine...though as others have pointed out, Q at the top of the zone isn’t ideal.

Hamir Wright reminds me of Terrance Roberts. Great athlete, not a great skilled player. In fact, his team kind of reminds me of those early Roberts, Nichols, Watkins years. Lots of athletes, not much offensive cohesion...with a PG that has to function as a primary shooter.

Stewart and Quade are solid. McDaniels is young and inconsistent. Wright is borderline useless unless he’s in transition, and Carter puts up numbers, but he doesn’t make winning plays IMO.

I wish he’d get Bey more minutes and more shots. He would force defenders to extend and open up entry lanes for Stewart.

They looked awful last night. UCLA extended their defense and exposed Wright and got under McDanials chin and he didn’t handle it well.

Hop needs a second ball handler and a shooter.

I think Bey or Carter can be that guy to handle the ball.

I don’t like Wright much at this point. Comparing him to TRob is a compliment at this point. I really don’t see much that he does well and every shot he takes outside of a dunk is like an automatic turnover for a team that already has too many. I have a feeling Hop going 11 deep yesterday is him looking for Wrights replacement.

 

[HuskyHooper]

Pac-12 is pretty bad. It depends on how you define good. Sure they could get 7 teams in, but majority of them would be a 7-12 seed. The issue is that the best team out west is Gonzaga. That was never the case 10-20 years ago. And right now the second best team out west might be SDST. Pac-12 is only as good as the blue bloods, and right now Arizona and UCLA haven’t been the programs they once were. They used to be held in the same regards as UNC and Kentucky. The conference has also been hurt by a lot of one and dones. Which looks like they case once again.

 

[rrlbees]

 

[Cheriehoop]

Total rebounds by team does not always accurately reflect which team is a better rebounding team (Fails to consider the total # of rebounds available which can be impacted by pace, shot type, etc)

Washington has a positive rebound margin of +1 per game, while Syracuse has a negative rebound margin of -1 per game.

If we can maintain that -1 margin through ACC play that would be a positive surprise for this team, I think.

Would anyone have guessed that the Huskies are only +1 vs our -1 against opponents this year regardless? To be honest, other than Mooney of Notre Dame, our next opponent who averages over 13 rebounds per game - I don’t know which conference - ACC or Pac 12 has the better rebounders to even compare conference play numbers.

 

[cuseattle]

the fans are turning on hop already? That’s laughable. They don’t deserve him then. He’ll be back in Syracuse soon.

Fans aren't turning on Hop. He is well liked and respected by pretty much all hoops fans I talk to regularly. cuseinseattle would probably tell you the same.

 

[two3zone]

Fans aren't turning on Hop. He is well liked and respected by pretty much all hoops fans I talk to regularly. cuseinseattle would probably tell you the same.

I have been following them hard, even subscribing to the seattle times. While they may not be turning, they are complaining about a lot of the same things we do here. Short rotation, turnovers, rebounding, and being outcoached.

What I see in Syracuse the past few years I dont see much that brings me hope.

In Washington he turned a single digit win team into 20+ wins 2 years in a row with highly talented players.

Situations are completely different.

Btw. See who was sitting behind the Huskies bench last night?

 

[cuseattle]

I have been following them hard, even subscribing to the seattle times. While they may not be turning, they are complaining about a lot of the same things we do here. Short rotation, turnovers, rebounding, and being outcoached.

What I see in Syracuse the past few years I dont see much that brings me hope.

In Washington he turned a single digit win team into 20+ wins 2 years in a row with highly talented players.

Situations are completely different.

Btw. See who was sitting behind the Huskies bench last night?

I didn't. Aaron?
Must have been awesome except for the L.