Way too early look ahead to qb in 13'

[Chip]

I'll say what I said before he even officially committed. When he leaves here, it will be as a TE or a DE/LB.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

We have a shortage of LBs come 2013. Going to be some interesting decisions to be made.

 

[billsin01]

He has lacked touch, but I've been saying for a while now that he's the best we've had at the position since McNabb. Not much doubt, in my mind.

Yeah, I agree with this. Unfortunately this will probably send this thread down a horrible path, but I've argued he's not only the best since McNabb but that no one else has been even remotely close. Unfortunately some remember the Nunes era fondly ... somehow.

 

[SUinNYC]

I would say there is a 3% chance that Loeb is the only QB to get meaningful snaps next year. That doesn't mean he won't be the starter and primary QB, but between the chances of injury and the simple truth that someone else will be taking the snaps in '14, I'd be shocked if someone wasn't at least getting a series here and there. Especially since the precedent was set with Paulus/Nassib in DM's first season.

You may be right. I was merely talking about who is the official "starter". I think it's Loeb. Marrone has already said given him a vote of confidence. I believe he said that he'd never said this before, but he'd feel very comfortable playing him this year if need be.

 

[billsin01]

We have a shortage of LBs come 2013. Going to be some interesting decisions to be made.

If they moved Hogue -- who was fresh off a season in which he rushed for more than 6 ypc and almost 10 ypr -- to defense when their offense was terrible, I don't see why they wouldn't move a really talented athlete from a crowded QB/RB competition to a spot where he could be a nightmare for opponents (in this system). I have no idea if will happen, but you'd have to think they'd think pretty seriously about it.

 

[RMH44]

If they moved Hogue -- who was fresh off a season in which he rushed for more than 6 ypc and almost 10 ypr -- to defense when their offense was terrible, I don't see why they wouldn't move a really talented athlete from a crowded QB/RB competition to a spot where he could be a nightmare for opponents (in this system). I have no idea if will happen, but you'd have to think they'd think pretty seriously about it.

I've always said that with his natural ability and with a few additional pounds, AB could be a killer MLB. He'd have no problem running sideline to sideline.

 

[GoSU96]

Short of injury, there is no way in hell they will redshirt AB next year, IMO. He will be on the field somewhere...

Loeb makes the most sense "only" from an experience standpoint. To my knowledge, which isn't great, this is Loeb's first experience with a no huddle, spread offense.

FWIW, I have been told, the time Hunt missed will be "extremely difficult to make up."

I agree 100% that it is wish fulfillment (the stuff that fans are made of) to assume that Allen will step right in January and be the man. But man, he looks great on film...

Other than his high school team. How much experience did Nassib have in a no huddle offense before this year?

 

[Czar]

The kid from Colorado was once going to be our stud QB of the future, too.

Miller is not near the prospect that Allen was. Also, Miller had a massive shoulder injury.

 

[GoSU96]

agreed and I've always supported Nassib. he's been a solid competant qb his entire career; with a horrible supporting cast. obviously still has his flaws (like the happy feet he showed early against usc) but I'll live with it, he's the best passing QB we've had here since Philcox.

Graves was MUCH better than Philcox.

 

[GoSU96]

The guy who ends up at QB will be AB, the system is taylor made for him, the read option makes the QB a triple threat to pitch ,throw, or run. The other thing is: he is actually out their playing in the system.

I wouldn't put much money on that.

 

[GoSU96]

Anyone know what style offense Allen's Temple team runs?

The one you are seeing in Orange and Blue.

 

[GoSU96]

The thing that drives me crazy on this board is how quickly people forget stuff like this. People here liked Miller every bit as much as they now like Allen.

Some people

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'll say what I said before he even officially committed. When he leaves here, it will be as a TE or a DE/LB.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Tend to agree, I just hope he gets there sooner rather than later, there is always a place for an athlete such as Ashton and he is a difference maker but using him 3-4 downs a game isn't the answer. Get him on specials and somwhere on the field for more than that, IMO. Would love to see him at LB/ DE type guy, he could be a terror in another year or so, just my 2 cents.

The wildcat is played out, IMO as well

 

[OrangeMojo]

FWIW, I have been told, the time Hunt missed will be "extremely difficult to make up."

I have no idea what this means. If missing 15 practices your freshman year virtually rules you out of the QB competition, then surely the two frosh and Broyld aren't in the mix as they don't even have the two seasons that Hunt will have under their belt. So basically this says next year comes down to Loeb and Kinder? I seriously doubt that's the case.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Some people

You seeing Loeb for a year and then Allen or straight too Allen, understand it's just a guess just curious what your thoughts are

 

[GoSU96]

You seeing Loeb for a year and then Allen or straight too Allen, understand it's just a guess just curious what your thoughts are

If Allen is here in the spring I think it's a wide open battle between Loeb, Hunt, and Allen.

Whatever happens the depth needs to be developed. The direction that offense is taking is going to expose the QB's to more hits.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If Allen is here in the spring I think it's a wide open battle between Loeb, Hunt, and Allen.

Whatever happens the depth needs to be developed. The direction that offense is taking is going to expose the QB's to more hits.

agreed, Nassib has taken some real blows already. tough kid

 

[sdpenny32]

I was at Metlife this weekend and was thoroughly impressed with Nassib in his understanding and command of the offense. He is not as good as Barkley as far as him arm ability. (Barkley would have hit Kobena in the corner of the endzone at the end of the first half. Its a throw I dont know if Nassib will ever make consistently. With that said, I dont think Barkley can fit it in tight coverage like Ryan is able to. )

Looking forward to next year. While i feel that we might have some quality throwers in our stable, Im worried that there will be a major drop off in understanding of the playbook. Nassib at times really looked 1oo percent in control of the offense, he knew exactly where to go with the ball. His footwork has improved and his feet are much more quiet. I believe that these are directly related to his grasp of the qb position and playbook.

Next years team will be even more talented, with MORE weapons than this years team. The schedule will probbaly not be as stout as the one we will face this year and I think we will have a top 25 caliber team. But who will be under center? Could a true freshman like Allen be able to come right in and learn this playbook? Will they change the offense again for a guy like Broyld? Or will Loeb be able to make the transition in this offense seamlessly.

Its really cool to see an Orange offense that actually moves the ball. Its great to see a qb who takes what the defense is giving him. Its comforting having a quaterback who you feel will make the right read at the right time. We are really going to miss Nassib. For the majority of us, hes not the sexy pick. I know some of us hoped that guys like Kinder/Hunt would overtake Ryan. But after seeing him in person, its easy to see that we have a legit D1 quaterback under center. Im gonna thoroughly enjoy his last 10 games behind center knowing that hes the right man for the job...but who's next?

Nassic will be tough to replace. No doubt about it. Having said that, I think Marrone is looking for the quarterback to run the ball even more than Nassib is this year. He can move but he is not the type of dual-threat QB we have been recruiting. He is just simply too good not to have on the field. That is why I don't think Loeb is the answer. Nobody is going to put up the passing numbers that Nassib is putting up but if we can get one of the dual-threat guys up to speed, the running ability with the added weapons (especially Funderbirk) will be plenty to compensate for what we lose with Nassib. Also, as Morris and Mcfarlane emerge we will have even more depth in the backfield to help make some big plays.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, I agree with this. Unfortunately this will probably send this thread down a horrible path, but I've argued he's not only the best since McNabb but that no one else has been even remotely close. Unfortunately some remember the Nunes era fondly ... somehow.

Nunes had a few good games, especially as a senior. But for me, Nunes' defining moments were: (1) the Georgia Tech game at the Meadowlands (season opener), where he got tackled, went out of the game injured, and on the first play back in, got tackled again and AGAIN came out injured. Even if you're hurt, you don't show the opponent by coming off the field twice, in the G-D first quarter. (2) His wayward retreats where he would run from the rush, and wind up 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage - the Michigan game comes to mind in particular, where he pulled one of the those and threw a Pick-6 interception, if memory recalls.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure he's a nice kid and he had a gorgeous girlfriend with that diamond belly-button ring. He's probably doing well in business somewhere, hopefully married to beautiful Marcy. But he used to run like a scared rabbit when faced with a rush, and had less arm strength than any QB I can remember for the Orange.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Nassic will be tough to replace. No doubt about it. Having said that, I think Marrone is looking for the quarterback to run the ball even more than Nassib is this year. He can move but he is not the type of dual-threat QB we have been recruiting. He is just simply too good not to have on the field. That is why I don't think Loeb is the answer. Nobody is going to put up the passing numbers that Nassib is putting up but if we can get one of the dual-threat guys up to speed, the running ability with the added weapons (especially Funderbirk) will be plenty to compensate for what we lose with Nassib. Also, as Morris and Mcfarlane emerge we will have even more depth in the backfield to help make some big plays.

Loeb is a hell of an athlete, his issue is he tall and a big target and could take some real nasty hits, hes a big target either passing the ball or god forbid he is running but he can run if he gets loose, just don't see him being very shifty getting out of the pocket. Now I know somebody will tell me how strong he is and squats 10,000 pounds but I see him on the sideline last week and he is tall but I don't think terribly stout

 

[Faegan]

agreed, Nassib has taken some real blows already. tough kid

Kid is built like a brick shithouse.

 

[billsin01]

If Allen is here in the spring I think it's a wide open battle between Loeb, Hunt, and Allen.

Whatever happens the depth needs to be developed. The direction that offense is taking is going to expose the QB's to more hits.

Yeah, I'd agree with the notion that we need to have some depth at QB, though I'd still maintain that I'm far more worried about hits in the pocket (defenders lunging at knees, coming from the blind side, etc.) than I am concerned about an athletic kid running downfield. Different in the NFL but on this level there are plenty of QBs who run all season long and stay healthy. But, generally, good to have depth.

 

[SWC75]

I first posted this a couple of years ago and updated it with Nassib's numbers last year. Currently, Nassib projects to 444/666 (.667) for 4752yards, (10.7 per compleiton, 7.1 per attempt) 36TDs 18int and a rating of 139.00.

QB numbers
　
I've been looking up some information on the performances of SU quarterbacks since McNabb to make some comparisons. Stats aren't everything and the QB ratings system is just a statistical opinion but here goes.
　
These are the career numbers and ratings of the quarterbacks　who have played for SU in the last 12 seasons, ranked by their NCAA quarterback rating:
　
1) Greg Paulus 193/285 2024 yards, (10.5/comp, 7.1/att) 13TDs 14int rating: 132.60
2) Troy Nunes 362/618 4578 yards, (12.6/7.4) 32TDs 32int rating: 127.53
3) Ryan Nassib 497/841 5441yards, (11.1/6.5) 44TDs 18int rating: 126.43
4) Madei Williams 60/117 826 yards, (13.8/7.1) 4TDs 3int rating: 116.74
5) Andrew Robinson 175/345 2344 yards (13.4/6.8) 14TDs 11int rating: 114.81
6) RJ Anderson 358/687 4698 yards (13.1/6.8) 21TDs 23int rating: 112.94
7) Perry Patterson 456/962 5220 yards (11.4/5.4) 25TDS 25 int rating: 107.54
8) Cameron Dantley 169/341 1856 yards (11.0/5.4) 16TDs 8 int rating: 106.07
9) Joe Fields 21/58 347 yards (16.5/5.4) 1TDs 3int rating: 81.81
　
The seasons, (with at least 100 pass attempts):
1) Troy Nunes 1999 95/161 1141 yards (12.0/7.8) 11TDs 5int rating: 134.87
2) Troy Nunes 2000 94/154 1366 yards (14.5/8.9) 8TDs 14int rating: 134.51
3) Greg Paulus 2009 193/285 2024 yards (10.5/7.1) 13TDs 14int rating: 132.60
4) Ryan Nassib 2011 259/415 2685 yards (10.4/6.5) 22TDs 9int rating: 129.91
5) Andrew Robinson 2007 154/292 2192 yards (14.2/7.5) 13TDs 7int rating: 125.65
6) Ryan Nassib 2010 202/358 2334 yards (11.6/6.5) 19TDs 8int rating: 124.23
7) RJ Anderson 2001 72/144 1123 yards (15.6/7.8) 5TDs 2int rating: 124.19
8) RJ Anderson 2003 186/310 2164 yards (11.6/7.0) 10TD 8int rating: 124.12
9) Troy Nunes 2002 115/198 1337 yards(11.6/6.8) 8TDs 7int rating: 121.06
10) Troy Nunes 2001 58/105 734 yards (12.7/7.0) 5TDs 6int rating: 118.24
11) Perry Patterson 2006 158/300 1865 yards (11.8/6.2) 12TDs 4int rating: 115.42
12) Perry Patterson 2004 168/289 1851 yards (11.0/6.4) 7TDs 10int rating: 113.00
13) Madei Williams 1999 55/110 742 yards (13.5/6.7) 2TD 3int rating: 107.21　
14) Cameron Dantley 2008 121/251 1298 yards (10.7/5.2) 11TD 5 int rating: 102.12
15) RJ Anderson 2002 58/134 899 yards (15.5/6.7) 4TD 8int rating: 97.55
16) Perry Patterson 2005 130/273 1504 yards (11.6/5.5) 6TD 11int rating: 93.09　
　
I don't have all the numbers for 1987-98 but here are career numbers for the three great QBs we had during that time, along with their best seasons:
　
Donnie McPherson
career- 367/687 5812 yards (15.8/8.5) 46TDs 26int rating:139.01
best season: 1987 129/229 2341 yards (18.1/10.2)22TDs 11int rating:164.30
　
Marvin Graves
career- 563/943 8466 yards (15.0/9.0) 48TDs 45int rating: 142.37
best season: 1992 146/242 2296 yards (15.7/9/5) 14TD 12int rating: 149.20
　
Donovan McNabb
career- 548/938 8389 yards (15.3/8.9) 77TDs 26int rating: 155.09
best season: 1995 128/207 1991 yards (15.6/9.6) 16TD 6int rating: 　162.34
　
The fact that Troy Nunes has had the two best seasons as far as quarterback rating since 1999 and neither one was what I perceived to be his best year of 2002 illustrates that the quarterback rating system has its limitations. The stats that mean the most to me for a passer are TD passes and picks. That's where Donovan McNabb excelled, (note that his numbers and Marvin Graves' are basically identical except for those two stats, which are very different.).
　
I don't have all the Media Guides for 1987-98 and the SU website doesn't have all the numbers for those years but, as best I was able to determine, our quarterbacks from 1987-98 had 197 touchdown passes and 116 interceptions. Since then, (1999-2010), our quarterbacks　have had 146 touchdown passes and 128 interceptions.

Update: Ryan Nassib’s 2011 season ranks with the best we’ve had:
1987 Don McPherson 22TD 11int
1996 Donovan McNabb 19TD 9int
1997 Donovan McNabb 20TD 6int
1998 Donovan McNabb 22TD 5int
2011 Ryan Nassib 22TD 9int

Where Ryan ranked behind these season was in yards per attempt:
1987 McPherson 10.2
1996 McNabb 8.3
1997 McNabb 9.4
1998 McNabb 8.5
2011 Nassib 6.5

Which in turn is because of his poor yards per completion:
1987 McPherson 18.1
1996 McNabb 15.1
1997 McNabb 16.9
1998 McNabb 13.6
2011 Nassib 10.4

Basically Nassib got his TD passes from the sheer volume of his completions, which overcame the fact that he couldn’t throw deep effectively.

 

[SWC75]

Graves was MUCH better than Philcox.

Todd Philcon, 1988: 141/234 (60.2%) for 2076 yards (14.7 per completion, 8.9 per attempt) for 16TDs and 11 interceptions

Marvin Graves, 1993, (his senior year and his best statistically): 171/280 (61.1%) for 2547 yards (14.9/9.1) for 15TDs and 11 int

Pretty comperable.

 

[GoSU96]

Todd Philcon, 1988: 141/234 (60.2%) for 2076 yards (14.7 per completion, 8.9 per attempt) for 16TDs and 11 interceptions

Marvin Graves, 1993, (his senior year and his best statistically): 171/280 (61.1%) for 2547 yards (14.9/9.1) for 15TDs and 11 int

Pretty comperable.

Graves was a better QB, period.

 

[GoSU96]

I first posted this a couple of years ago and updated it with Nassib's numbers last year. Currently, Nassib projects to 444/666 (.667) for 4752yards, (10.7 per compleiton, 7.1 per attempt) 36TDs 18int and a rating of 139.00.

QB numbers
　
I've been looking up some information on the performances of SU quarterbacks since McNabb to make some comparisons. Stats aren't everything and the QB ratings system is just a statistical opinion but here goes.
　
These are the career numbers and ratings of the quarterbacks　who have played for SU in the last 12 seasons, ranked by their NCAA quarterback rating:
　
1) Greg Paulus 193/285 2024 yards, (10.5/comp, 7.1/att) 13TDs 14int rating: 132.60
2) Troy Nunes 362/618 4578 yards, (12.6/7.4) 32TDs 32int rating: 127.53
3) Ryan Nassib 497/841 5441yards, (11.1/6.5) 44TDs 18int rating: 126.43
4) Madei Williams 60/117 826 yards, (13.8/7.1) 4TDs 3int rating: 116.74
5) Andrew Robinson 175/345 2344 yards (13.4/6.8) 14TDs 11int rating: 114.81
6) RJ Anderson 358/687 4698 yards (13.1/6.8) 21TDs 23int rating: 112.94
7) Perry Patterson 456/962 5220 yards (11.4/5.4) 25TDS 25 int rating: 107.54
8) Cameron Dantley 169/341 1856 yards (11.0/5.4) 16TDs 8 int rating: 106.07
9) Joe Fields 21/58 347 yards (16.5/5.4) 1TDs 3int rating: 81.81
　
The seasons, (with at least 100 pass attempts):
1) Troy Nunes 1999 95/161 1141 yards (12.0/7.8) 11TDs 5int rating: 134.87
2) Troy Nunes 2000 94/154 1366 yards (14.5/8.9) 8TDs 14int rating: 134.51
3) Greg Paulus 2009 193/285 2024 yards (10.5/7.1) 13TDs 14int rating: 132.60
4) Ryan Nassib 2011 259/415 2685 yards (10.4/6.5) 22TDs 9int rating: 129.91
5) Andrew Robinson 2007 154/292 2192 yards (14.2/7.5) 13TDs 7int rating: 125.65
6) Ryan Nassib 2010 202/358 2334 yards (11.6/6.5) 19TDs 8int rating: 124.23
7) RJ Anderson 2001 72/144 1123 yards (15.6/7.8) 5TDs 2int rating: 124.19
8) RJ Anderson 2003 186/310 2164 yards (11.6/7.0) 10TD 8int rating: 124.12
9) Troy Nunes 2002 115/198 1337 yards(11.6/6.8) 8TDs 7int rating: 121.06
10) Troy Nunes 2001 58/105 734 yards (12.7/7.0) 5TDs 6int rating: 118.24
11) Perry Patterson 2006 158/300 1865 yards (11.8/6.2) 12TDs 4int rating: 115.42
12) Perry Patterson 2004 168/289 1851 yards (11.0/6.4) 7TDs 10int rating: 113.00
13) Madei Williams 1999 55/110 742 yards (13.5/6.7) 2TD 3int rating: 107.21　
14) Cameron Dantley 2008 121/251 1298 yards (10.7/5.2) 11TD 5 int rating: 102.12
15) RJ Anderson 2002 58/134 899 yards (15.5/6.7) 4TD 8int rating: 97.55
16) Perry Patterson 2005 130/273 1504 yards (11.6/5.5) 6TD 11int rating: 93.09　
　
I don't have all the numbers for 1987-98 but here are career numbers for the three great QBs we had during that time, along with their best seasons:
　
Donnie McPherson
career- 367/687 5812 yards (15.8/8.5) 46TDs 26int rating:139.01
best season: 1987 129/229 2341 yards (18.1/10.2)22TDs 11int rating:164.30
　
Marvin Graves
career- 563/943 8466 yards (15.0/9.0) 48TDs 45int rating: 142.37
best season: 1992 146/242 2296 yards (15.7/9/5) 14TD 12int rating: 149.20
　
Donovan McNabb
career- 548/938 8389 yards (15.3/8.9) 77TDs 26int rating: 155.09
best season: 1995 128/207 1991 yards (15.6/9.6) 16TD 6int rating: 　162.34
　
The fact that Troy Nunes has had the two best seasons as far as quarterback rating since 1999 and neither one was what I perceived to be his best year of 2002 illustrates that the quarterback rating system has its limitations. The stats that mean the most to me for a passer are TD passes and picks. That's where Donovan McNabb excelled, (note that his numbers and Marvin Graves' are basically identical except for those two stats, which are very different.).
　
I don't have all the Media Guides for 1987-98 and the SU website doesn't have all the numbers for those years but, as best I was able to determine, our quarterbacks from 1987-98 had 197 touchdown passes and 116 interceptions. Since then, (1999-2010), our quarterbacks　have had 146 touchdown passes and 128 interceptions.

Update: Ryan Nassib’s 2011 season ranks with the best we’ve had:
1987 Don McPherson 22TD 11int
1996 Donovan McNabb 19TD 9int
1997 Donovan McNabb 20TD 6int
1998 Donovan McNabb 22TD 5int
2011 Ryan Nassib 22TD 9int

Where Ryan ranked behind these season was in yards per attempt:
1987 McPherson 10.2
1996 McNabb 8.3
1997 McNabb 9.4
1998 McNabb 8.5
2011 Nassib 6.5

Which in turn is because of his poor yards per completion:
1987 McPherson 18.1
1996 McNabb 15.1
1997 McNabb 16.9
1998 McNabb 13.6
2011 Nassib 10.4

Basically Nassib got his TD passes from the sheer volume of his completions, which overcame the fact that he couldn’t throw deep effectively.

Different type of offense, different approach to the passing game within the offense, much different qualities of player being thrown to. D used the run to set up deep balls off of play action.

Comparing yds per attempt/completion doesn't take any of that into account.