We didn't get beat by the refs tonight ...

[rrlbees]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys. That's why we got beat.

Yea, Duke played great D, as did we. Doesn't change the fact that the refs either don't know the rules, are crooks or are intimidated by K and Duke.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys.

That's why we got beat.

What other teams will take is simple. Cameron and refs screwed Syracuse. Not much else to take from this game if you watched it objectively. I contend your overwhelming desire to protect the refs severely clouds your evaluation of them. You probably are a very good official yourself but tonight ---these guys in stripes were beyond comprehension. I can play lock down "D" if I can hand check and body bump and ride people to the floor. Add in the phantom fouls on Syracuse and there's your recipe to beat Syracuse. Happily no other teams use Cameron for their home games.

 

[Orangello]

How many times did a Puke player lower their shoulder or push off on a drive. Watch the tape and tell me how many you count. Not one was called. Laughable.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Cowtown, I called for you in the game thread. Now you said what a bs call the intentional foul was against fluke AND I AGREED WITH YOU. But you didn't one time come to the defense of a bad call against us????!! Unless I missed it, you defended fluke and didn't stick up for one of those ticky tack calls against us?? Or the 3 or 4 no calls and one's etc??? C'mon man

 

[Cowtown]

The refs that called a BS block on G? The refs that called the SAME thing a charge on CJ? The ones that didn't call an OBVIOUS foul on a Rak dunk that would've given us a free throw to tie the game? The one call that went out way was the phantom flagrant on a fastbreak.

I didn't say that.

 

[Noexcuse]

Both teams played excellent defense imo. Syracuse put itself in a position to at least tie at the end. Can't ask for more than that.

And the Cameron Crazies? Eh.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys.

That's why we got beat.

I don't think that was the ONLY reason we lost but the call surprised me at the end of the game. Very frustrating, thought it was wrong. Also thought there were a lot of "no calls" in the second half.

Still, lots of folks here have said it before -- if we put the game away earlier then we wouldn't be at the mercy of one critical call at the end. JB coached a good game IMHO to keep it that close.

Respect your opinion, Cowtown, and tonight is absolutely the night you should be posting. Let it all out.

 

[RF2044]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys.

That's why we got beat.

It isn't hard to be aggressive defensively "in the grill of our guys" when you don't have normal calls made against you.

 

[victor]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys.

That's why we got beat.

What about our defense on Duke. We made adjustments from the first game and did a good job on their 3 point shooting. The game was there for us to win but we missed some layups and still had a chance to win the game at the end. Effort was really good and in spite of the loss, I feel much better today than I did after the BC lost

 

[Dcuse]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys.

That's why we got beat.

Cowtown- newsflash- the call at the end of the game is why we got beat. Good night

 

[Cowtown]

exactly - it's a call you can live with if it's consistently called within the same game
the block call on G was a whole lot more obvious a charge (although not called that way) than the call on CJ. In fact, CJ slid to the side avoiding direct contact for either a no call or a blocking call

Herein lies the problem with the two blocking calls. I was going to wait a while, but what heck, we're here and talking hoops. The blocking call on Gbinije was a dreadful call. I'm sure we all agree on that. But at that point, that call only sort of evened up the egregiously bad 'flagrant 1' call made when Gbinije was driving. Anyway, the problem then, is that the charging call on Fair, which was not a bad call in and of itself (it really was a 50-50) , was a bad call because it was called differently from Gbinije's.

But Duke's defense intimidated the heck out of our guys on the perimeter. We peeled back more times than China's got rice. Why did Cooney produce zilch tonight? Because he was being fouled? Not. It was because he couldn't get open.

And the SU center's fouls came because they were reaching out of position and trying to block every shot. Goddam it, you cannot block every shot and trying to do so only gets you in foul trouble. Most of the contact that occurred when Duke was on D came with Duke players in better position. Duke's D, like I said at the top, was tougher tonight than we were.

 

[Cowtown]

Cowtown- newsflash- the call at the end of the game is why we got beat. Good night

The game is only 15 seconds long? Wow! Who knew!

 

[RF2044]

Herein lies the problem with the two blocking calls. I was going to wait a while, but what heck, we're here and talking hoops. The blocking call on Gbinije was a dreadful call. I'm sure we all agree on that. But at that point, that call only sort of evened up the egregiously bad 'flagrant 1' call made when Gbinije was driving. Anyway, the problem then, is that the charging call on Fair, which was not a bad call in and of itself (it really was a 50-50) , was a bad call because it was called differently from Gbinije's.

But Duke's defense intimidated the heck out of our guys on the perimeter. We peeled back more times that China's got rice. Why did Cooney produce zilch tonight? Because he was being fouled? Not. It was because he couldn't get open.

And the SU center's fouls came because they were reaching out of position and trying to block every shot. Goddam it, you cannot block every shot and trying to do so only gets you in foul trouble. Most of the contact that occurred when Duke was on D came with Duke players in better position. Duke's D, like I said at the top, was tougher tonight than we were.

Let me make sure I'm understanding your point--so as long as bad calls even out, that makes bad calls acceptable?

Ref logic.

 

[xc84]

exactly - it's a call you can live with if it's consistently called within the same game
the block call on G was a whole lot more obvious a charge (although not called that way) than the call on CJ. In fact, CJ slid to the side avoiding direct contact for either a no call or a blocking call

This is the essence of why Boeheim was so pissed.

 

[MikeSU02]

we got beat by Duke's defense, which outplayed our offense for most of the game. I'm more concerned about what other teams will take from watching this game, that we're beatable when other teams put good defensive players up in the grill of our guys. That's why we got beat.

What? We missed a bunch of chippies and still came back and shot over 50% in the second half.

The last call was the wrong call. And if you are going to get it wrong, just don't call anything. But to call a charge was terrible.

Grant gets fouled on every drive and nada.

I don't care, this stuff happens. I thought we got some calls against NC State. But the last call wasn't correct. And it was compounded by being called a charge and not a no call.

Ennis was getting dribble penetration at will, but he couldn't hit anything. Trevor had open looks and they didn't fall. You are literally making crap up to deflect from the officials. Duke isn't a great defensive team this year. They have a crap ton of shooters and a superstar in Parker. That's how they win.

 

[Cowtown]

Let me make sure I'm understanding your point--so as long as bad calls even steven, it's supposed to be cool?

Ref logic.

I didn't say that either.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Herein lies the problem with the two blocking calls. I was going to wait a while, but what heck, we're here and talking hoops. The blocking call on Gbinije was a dreadful call. I'm sure we all agree on that. But at that point, that call only sort of evened up the egregiously bad 'flagrant 1' call made when Gbinije was driving. Anyway, the problem then, is that the charging call on Fair, which was not a bad call in and of itself (it really was a 50-50) , was a bad call because it was called differently from Gbinije's.

But Duke's defense intimidated the heck out of our guys on the perimeter. We peeled back more times that China's got rice. Why did Cooney produce zilch tonight? Because he was being fouled? Not. It was because he couldn't get open.

And the SU center's fouls came because they were reaching out of position and trying to block every shot. Goddam it, you cannot block every shot and trying to do so only gets you in foul trouble. Most of the contact that occurred when Duke was on D came with Duke players in better position. Duke's D, like I said at the top, was tougher tonight than we were.

No doubt they played very good D tonight. That said, what about all the no calls when guys are getting body checked while in the air and making shots and no and one call?? I promise you if you rewound the game you will see a minimum of 3 of those. And the no calls of defenders slapping at the arms of our guys AFTER they've secured the rebound?? There were plenty enough of no calls helping them to warrant a mention.

 

[Cowtown]

No doubt they played very good D tonight. That said, what about all the no calls when guys are getting body checked while in the air and making shots and no and one call?? I promise you if you rewound the game you will see a minimum of 3 of those. And the no calls of defenders slapping at the arms of our guys AFTER they've secured the rebound?? There were plenty enough of no calls helping them to warrant a mention.

In sort of a summarization (and no crap to you) I didn't say they were perfect. I said they didn't beat us. Duke beat us tonight.

 

[OburgOrange]

Robert Marvin Hull.

 

[Cowtown]

And for those who still want to disagree, check Bayside's post and watch the JB presser. He said the game was well officiated but for the inconsistency between the two block/charge calls. Which is exactly the position I took above.

 

[wallacecuse]

You're entitled to your opinion. And with respect to your point about timing, you don't want to know what I really think I saw, which I've refrained from posting here tonight. And anyone who didn't see how good Duke's D was, and how it intimidated our players and made them tentative - especially Ennis (whom I quite like, btw) - should reconsider.

I think you are over- stating their effectiveness. Were they aggresive? Yes, but we only had 8 to' s, and got the shots we wanted. I thought we were forced out of our O more by BC.

 

[jncuse]

Before ripping 19 and 20 year old for not executing, I think it's necessary to go after grown men and "professionals" who are well compensated and performed like shat.

 

[thebigeast44]

What do you expect - police officers back up bad cops when they do something wrong. Cowtown is a ref - so he backs up a bad call and bad reffing. We could have shot the ball better but refs can make calls that have a significant impact on the game. They did tonight and it helped decide the game. Sorry cowtown - you can't have credibility by making a post like this and not calling out the refs when they do a poor job.

 

[dasher]

In sort of a summarization (and no crap to you) I didn't say they were perfect. I said they didn't beat us. Duke beat us tonight.

Silly, silly point. The game was a 2 pt game with 10 seconds left. The Duke D was very good. The point you miss is that our d was just as good. Duke was allowed to be a bit more physical tonight then what refs have allowed all season. Hands were on our players on drives to the hoop. No big deal to me. But what was a big deal is that the refs have been told that block charge calls that are not clearly on the offense are to be called on the defense. And with that and one, Duke's great defense you speak of, is one free throw from being behind.

 

[anglerman]

And for those who still want to disagree, check Bayside's post and watch the JB presser. He said the game was well officiated but for the inconsistency between the two block/charge calls. Which is exactly the position I took above.

So esentially what you're saying is that SU did lose because of the two bad calls. You talk about Dukes defense but you as being a big factor but at the same time you can't discount the impact on the game the two bad calls had

If the two opposite calls were made don't you agree that SU had an excellent chance to win?