jgeorge322
Living Legend
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- Aug 29, 2011
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Finance the players?
Yea, how you are going to pay then to get them to go to your school…
Finance the players?
No idea. Haven't given it a thought since it isn't my job to make that hire. I just know that it makes sense to have a real search. Keep in mind, that in a former life, the large financial institution that I worked for, hired me rather than go outside for the director of financial sales. They could have gone outside and didn't. But if I was in the position of picking the next coach, I wouldn't confuse where we are, with where Duke or North Carolina are.
Why in the world are you asking me this?Not many are confusing Syracuse during basketball season with Durham or Chapel Hill and if they do you might want to give them a snow blower as a gift at their welcome to the Hill party.
But on the good side that weather keeps many Syracusans inside during hoops season and drives the fans to the Dome to support their team. We’ve had 90 games played in our home arena with crowds in excess of 30k, how many have those Heels or Devils had?
Why in the world are you asking me this?
Is it really a long list, though? I am genuinely interested in the list of college basketball "greats" who had a losing record at their first job. I suspect it really isn't a long list, especially in the last 50 years.Yeah, I'd rather have Hop instead of Red or GMac. Ace recruiter and he's had a chance to be a head coach and learn from his mistakes. There's a long list of Greats who did not succeed at first. Seems unlikely though.
We all know the answer is zero. Cuse is a top ten job as long as it pays like a top ten job. If ADJW doesn't interview anyone outside the current staff plus Hop then he is doing the university a great disservice. If he does and Red is still the best candidate, then great, we've got ourselves an awesome coach. But, you only know you have the best hire when you know you've interviewed the best candidates.Not many are confusing Syracuse during basketball season with Durham or Chapel Hill and if they do you might want to give them a snow blower as a gift at their welcome to the Hill party.
But on the good side that weather keeps many Syracusans inside during hoops season and drives the fans to the Dome to support their team. We’ve had 90 games played in our home arena with crowds in excess of 30k, how many have those Heels or Devils had?
We all know the answer is zero. Cuse is a top ten job as long as it pays like a top ten job. If ADJW doesn't interview anyone outside the current staff plus Hop then he is doing the university a great disservice. If he does and Red is still the best candidate, then great, we've got ourselves an awesome coach. But, you only know you have the best hire when you know you've interviewed the best candidates.
Right. So let's say ADJW has already decided that he thinks that Red will make a great HC. Doesn't he owe it to the school to at least "open" the process to see what other interested candidates are out there.There is no way you interview all interested candidates and pick a guy with no head coaching experience as the “best hire”. You are either seeking the best candidate (in which case it wouldn’t be someone with Zero head coaching experience/resume) or you are willing to invest some time in developing someone you believe has potential to be a successful head coach. I believe those to be two different paths, not saying I know which will prove to have been a good or bad path, just that they are different paths.
And they’ve had long “interviews” of the in-house guys. They should know them well enough that a decision on them isn’t being made on an interview.
Even sticking with the subjectively flawed premise of “50 year foundation of excellence,” whether you favor an internal vs external hire seems to involve your commitment to zone as a major component. If you’re fine with zone continuing and solidifying as the Syracuse “identity,“ sure, continuity makes sense. If not, internal makes very little sense.
The other matter is that you’ve ascribed some sort of value to our incumbents, yet they haven’t proven anything. I assume you’re assuming it’s because they have ostensibly been contributors at some level toward the “50 year foundation of excellence,” but we don’t know what that level is.
There is a different set of abilities that are needed to be successful as a CEO and a vice president. The only time a person can actually develop those abilities is when they are in that position, except in rare instances where the individual is a natural. A person who has only been an assistant coach is going to be learning on the job.Is it really a long list, though? I am genuinely interested in the list of college basketball "greats" who had a losing record at their first job. I suspect it really isn't a long list, especially in the last 50 years.
I bet it's a longer list of coaches who struggled at their first job that struggled at their future jobs, too.
I love Hop, but if he wasn't an SU guy, would anyone really be clamoring for him based on his track record at UW or an as- yet unproven ability to learn from his mistakes?
Please cite where I have said any such thing. Please send where a thoughtful person could say I said or hinted any such thing. You can't because I didn't. Your take on me saying any such thing is a ridiculous take. I think Syracuse is a great job. It is not North Carolina or Duke. Or Kentucky. But still a great job. Not to mention that I have argued just the opposite on this board to what you are claiming. As long as we pay at a rate that is competitive with any other top tier program, we can get a top level coach. Getting someone to leave another top tier program is a different story for a number of reasons however.Because you sound like you can’t see anything that might make SU an attractive landing spot for a top head coach.
Please cite where I have said any such thing. Please send where a thoughtful person could say I said or hinted any such thing. You can't because I didn't. Your take on me saying any such thing is a ridiculous take. I think Syracuse is a great job. It is not North Carolina or Duke. Or Kentucky. But still a great job. Not to mention that I have argued just the opposite on this board to what you are claiming. As long as we pay at a rate that is competitive with any other top tier program, we can get a top level coach. Getting someone to leave another top tier program is a different story for a number of reasons however.
Once again, why say this to me? I know all of those things. I think Syracuse is a great job. Is it the best job in the country? No. But a top level job, for sure. Yet you write to me like I think it is Providence.My point is that Syracuse has attributes that those programs may not. Historical on court achievements is one positive attribute, but not overwhelming. SU’s situation gives it attributes those programs may not be able to match and make it attractive for those reasons.
1. The Dome and the ability to play before enormous crowds and how that may appeal to young recruits.
2. The Newhouse School and the number of big name national broadcasters with SU ties means that achievements on the Hill rarely go unnoticed or get lost in the shuffle.
3. A history of being dedicated to a long and lasting relationship with its head coach.
4. Being located in a mid-market from a day to day perspective but with pretty good ties to the largest market in the US (NYC).
Once again, why say this to me? I know all of those things. I think Syracuse is a great job. Is it the best job in the country? No. But a top level job, for sure. Yet you write to me like I think it is Providence.
I think SU is a great job for a basketball coach, but I'm not sure that any of the four points you listed are in the top five items that sway a high level coach to accept a job.Limited oversiteBecause while you are literally correct that it is not UNC, Duke or Kentucky as YOU said. I am trying to make the point that it has advantages that UNC, Duke and Kentucky do not.
I think SU is a great job for a basketball coach, but I'm not sure that any of the four points you listed are in the top five items that sway a high level coach to accept a job.Limited oversite
"The Dome and the ability to play before enormous crowds and how that may appeal to young recruits. UNC, Duke, Kentucky have tremendous game day environments." The dome may have more seats to fill, but any of these schools have great atmosphere and traditions.
"The Newhouse School and the number of big name national broadcasters with SU ties means that achievements on the Hill rarely go unnoticed or get lost in the shuffle." I respectfully say that, while possibly true, this isn't high on a candidates list.
"A history of being dedicated to a long and lasting relationship with its head coach." And UNC, Duke and Kentucky haven't been dedicated to their long lasting coaches? A top candidate thinks they're going to succeed, just like a top recruit. This isn't on their radar.
"Being located in a mid-market from a day to day perspective but with pretty good ties to the largest market in the US (NYC)." Possibly true, but not so much in the last ten years.
I believe that, for a proven successful coaching candidate, it comes down to -
I'm sure I forgot something, but your four above are below the above list. My worst fear in our coaching search is someone like Nate Oats using SU to get an upgraded contract at Alabama. That would be super embarassing.
- Compensation
- Compensation
- Compensation
- NIL opportunities for recruits
- Recruiting markets
- University's commitment to current & new facilities
- University AD
- Position of basketball in the athletic department hierarchy
- Full or nearly full control over the program.
I wonder if #4 should actually shift up to #1 -- because that seems to be the "new normal" differentiator between the haves and the have nots.
Example -- Tennessee buying and selling recruits, leveraging their NIL capabilities.
I have to believe that the compensation will be there, and in line with what we need to pay. So I just don't see that as being as big of a key factor.
Good point on the NIL.I wonder if #4 should actually shift up to #1 -- because that seems to be the "new normal" differentiator between the haves and the have nots.
Example -- Tennessee buying and selling recruits, leveraging their NIL capabilities.
I have to believe that the compensation will be there, and in line with what we need to pay. So I just don't see that as being as big of a key factor.
Good point on the NIL.
I'd like to think SU will pay well, but JB has been paid less than his peers. Will SU offer 4M-5M per year? Otherwise its mid-major or Mike Hopkins or Red.
Not a coincidence that we've played nine seasons in the ACC. Once we left the Big East Tournament, we lost a lot of our New York City swagger."Being located in a mid-market from a day to day perspective but with pretty good ties to the largest market in the US (NYC)." Possibly true, but not so much in the last ten years.
There's a long list of Greats who did not succeed at first. Seems unlikely though.
I don’t think he's leaving Providence. He's from there and so is his wife, she's a well-known and popular police officer with the Providence PD. They're part of the fabric of that city, just not seeing him walk away from that.You can only do so much at Providence. I think Ed would leave for Syracuse in a second. As for Nate I think you got to make a run at him. I don't see him staying at Alabama for life.