What I'm hearing

[longtimefan]

Roy went to back to back Final Fours 16 and 17 and had won 3 NCs since 2005.

If we had a national championship in the last 5 years the temperature would be A LOT cooler.

This is the statement I was referring to:

Those programs may have a down year every once in a while but those programs are rolling each year.

If UNC is embarrassed again this weekend, then get upset in their first-round ACCT game, they may not make the big tournament. That would be a 3-year run of mediocrity.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

This will come as no surprise, but I completely disagree.

Hop coached himself out of contention. Red is underqualified compared to the field.

JW is going to aim higher; he has no incentive not to -- and the freedom to do so if JB only has input into the decision [versus naming his successor, as many have believed would happen until his recent remarks].

I want to be clear -- I love Hop, love Red. I have an old #15 jersey in my closet that I bought because of Red [not Carmelo]. But those guys don't have the chops to turn this Titanic around. What do I mean by that? Hop talked big about not being tied to zone, playing a lot more M2M once he left the nest -- but guess what UW plays? Nearly 100% zone.

Being dissatisfied with the results, but hiring guys who will emulate the current approach is the definition of insanity. I'm with SUTomcat and Scooch on this -- JW will swing for the fences and is prepared to pay $$$ to land a top candidate.

With the right athletes the zone is fine

 

[Cuse_NYC]

The only part that I disagree with is is calling this the Titanic. We have slipped but we are not rock bottom. And that is where the Titanic is.

The hire would be rock bottom.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Agreed. I should probably have Jesse a little higher and frank a little lower

Why would Jesse bolt? He’s the focus on an ACC borderline tourney team. He’s only improved yr by yr. The Frank move makes too much sense. Was going to post about this. Why not go to a mid major and play 30+mpg?

 

[cuseinseattle]

This is what I heard last night from my connection (long chat about the AAU scene, college bball in general and we went into cuse full circle). This info is as of 3.4.2022 and things can change (please don't go after my throat if one or two of these things change).

Roster next year-
Apparently, we are in the driver's seat with Mintz right now. It's going to be between us and Wake Forest for him with NC state and Depaul having guard commits here recently. Jimmy has told him about a starting role and he would be along side JG3 for the starting backcourt. If he comes, we would run 3 guards with Copeland redshirting/sitting all year. The coaches will have to get his buy-in with this because his first year was labeled as spot minutes/back up mins and he won't get that with a Mintz commit.
Cole is 50/50 to stay (Jimmy even mentioned it). JB will ask him to stay one more year and put together some solid tape to possibly get drafted ala Hughes. He will be the featured player on the roster and gives JB someone he trusts. With this AND if Benny stays, we won't tap into the transfer market for a forward. Benny leaves, we will.
Frank is 50/50 as well. According to my connection, the game is still moving a lil too fast for him but he knows he could start at various places. He knows he would get 20 minutes again next year with Jesse back so he's weighing his options to go or not. Might do the JBA way and put his name in to get feedback/interest from other schools and decide to come back. If he goes, we will get a center/forward transfer because Peter is not ready yet.
JBA, Buddy, Jimmy Jr gone obviously.

Coaches Retirement/His interview the other day-
Apparently, coach was feeling the heat/pressure to speak up about the so called "plan" from booster/fans/JW. My connection kept harping on the term "succession plan" always means "in house" . He said watch the smaller school openings and if one of the assistants bolt for it, Hop is most likely to get let go at UW and he could slide back home for a year than take over. He said that's all a big if but could happen. Likelihood it's Red for the takeover and he will be the lead recruiter for the 2023 cycle. Still hasn't ruled out JB calling it in the summer time, exact quote " I get he promised these income recruits he was going to coach them but with both sons leaving, why?". JW is hearing all the chatter and criticism and knows something needs to happen soon. JB has and will have input in the hire but not full.

Might be new news or not but just wanted to share.

Thanks for sharing

 

[Alsacs]

Why would Jesse bolt? He’s the focus on an ACC borderline tourney team. He’s only improved yr by yr. The Frank move makes too much sense. Was going to post about this. Why not go to a mid major and play 30+mpg?

Jesse seems like a good kid so he wouldn’t do this but he could easily portal and go to a team like Ohio State or Kansas expand his brand.

He doesn’t seem like the type of kid that would do that but he could and nobody would blame him.

He wasn’t appreciatied enough this year.

 

[721Comstock]

Why would Jesse bolt? He’s the focus on an ACC borderline tourney team. He’s only improved yr by yr. The Frank move makes too much sense. Was going to post about this. Why not go to a mid major and play 30+mpg?

Because he can literally go anywhere he wants, and start immediately, and likely be surrounded by better talent, on a team that isn’t sweating it to hopefully make the bubble, and not be coached by a nearly octogenarian who throws him under the bus in pressers, when he’s the best two-way player on the team.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Jesse seems like a good kid so he wouldn’t do this but he could easily portal and go to a team like Ohio State or Kansas expand his brand.

He doesn’t seem like the type of kid that would do that but he could and nobody would blame him.

He wasn’t appreciatied enough this year.

Sure, he could play center anywhere. But, he’s the starting center at ‘Cuse. He’s still treated like a member of the Beatles around town.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Because he can literally go anywhere he wants, and start immediately, and likely be surrounded by better talent, on a team that isn’t sweating it to hopefully make the bubble, and not be coached by a nearly octogenarian who throws him under the bus in pressers, when he’s the best two-way player on the team.

I’m with u. JB does no1 favors in those pressers. But I think we should be much more worried about Frank.

 

[Toga]

Because he can literally go anywhere he wants, and start immediately, and likely be surrounded by better talent, on a team that isn’t sweating it to hopefully make the bubble, and not be coached by a nearly octogenarian who throws him under the bus in pressers, when he’s the best two-way player on the team.

Well sure, there's that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is what I heard last night from my connection (long chat about the AAU scene, college bball in general and we went into cuse full circle). This info is as of 3.4.2022 and things can change (please don't go after my throat if one or two of these things change).

Roster next year-
Apparently, we are in the driver's seat with Mintz right now. It's going to be between us and Wake Forest for him with NC state and Depaul having guard commits here recently. Jimmy has told him about a starting role and he would be along side JG3 for the starting backcourt. If he comes, we would run 3 guards with Copeland redshirting/sitting all year. The coaches will have to get his buy-in with this because his first year was labeled as spot minutes/back up mins and he won't get that with a Mintz commit.
Cole is 50/50 to stay (Jimmy even mentioned it). JB will ask him to stay one more year and put together some solid tape to possibly get drafted ala Hughes. He will be the featured player on the roster and gives JB someone he trusts. With this AND if Benny stays, we won't tap into the transfer market for a forward. Benny leaves, we will.
Frank is 50/50 as well. According to my connection, the game is still moving a lil too fast for him but he knows he could start at various places. He knows he would get 20 minutes again next year with Jesse back so he's weighing his options to go or not. Might do the JBA way and put his name in to get feedback/interest from other schools and decide to come back. If he goes, we will get a center/forward transfer because Peter is not ready yet.
JBA, Buddy, Jimmy Jr gone obviously.

Coaches Retirement/His interview the other day-
Apparently, coach was feeling the heat/pressure to speak up about the so called "plan" from booster/fans/JW. My connection kept harping on the term "succession plan" always means "in house" . He said watch the smaller school openings and if one of the assistants bolt for it, Hop is most likely to get let go at UW and he could slide back home for a year than take over. He said that's all a big if but could happen. Likelihood it's Red for the takeover and he will be the lead recruiter for the 2023 cycle. Still hasn't ruled out JB calling it in the summer time, exact quote " I get he promised these income recruits he was going to coach them but with both sons leaving, why?". JW is hearing all the chatter and criticism and knows something needs to happen soon. JB has and will have input in the hire but not full.

Might be new news or not but just wanted to share.

Thank you.

Anybody who gives you a hard time doesn't understand how these boards work.

 

[Consigliere]

Thanks for the update. Not saying it would be a precedent but can anyone list a few programs that hired in house assistants as the head coach

and turned the program into a powerhouse?

Jim Boeheim at Syracuse

 

[Bayside44]

Roy went to back to back Final Fours 16 and 17 and had won 3 NCs since 2005.

If we had a national championship in the last 5 years the temperature would be A LOT cooler.

Right, he played us in one. But he didn't quite have Duke regular season and recruiting results either. Lumping those two together isn't quite accurate, what Duke is doing is different level.

 

[Day2]

Roy went to back to back Final Fours 16 and 17 and had won 3 NCs since 2005.

If we had a national championship in the last 5 years the temperature would be A LOT cooler.

Sure it would.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Jesse seems like a good kid so he wouldn’t do this but he could easily portal and go to a team like Ohio State or Kansas expand his brand.

He doesn’t seem like the type of kid that would do that but he could and nobody would blame him.

He wasn’t appreciatied enough this year.

No offense, but I wish the board would stop this sht. It’s what the football board did with Sean Tucker. It makes no sense why this stuff has started here.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Thanks for the update. Not saying it would be a precedent but can anyone list a few programs that hired in house assistants as the head coach and turned the program into a powerhouse?
If Cole Swider is the featured player next year, really based on one game (Carolina) I cannot see it. He cannot beat his man off the dribble. He will draw the ACC top athletic defenders. He can barely go left - is right handed exclusively. Defense is fair at best, on and on. Basically a catch and shoot dude. Has a big heart but has limitations.

A little harsh, but mostly true.

Still, without Jimmy and Buddy taking 30 shots a game, there are going to be more opportunities for others to improve their numbers and shine.

Swider and Joe make for 2 great open shooters, so they can't solely focus on Swider.

The Boeheim Boys took around 200 more shots than Swider and Joe this year, and they both still averaged 13 points a game.

Joe and Cole both shot about 40% from three, and nearly 90% from the line. Give them each another 75 - 100 shots next year, and they could both average 16-18 points a game. Swider is already at 7 boards, Girard at better than 4 assists, and can play more off-guard next year.

I could see Swider taking some of Jimmy's post-ups in the lane, especially when there is a mismatch.

If we have Benny, great. If we don't, and we also lose Frank, we'll need a legit PF from the Portal to start alongside Swider.

We will also need a back-up C, ideally one of those guys who is about 6-8 and 240, from a MAC team or from a smaller league on the East Coast, and can hit the three.

 

[IthacaMatt]

When Hop was named the Coach in waiting nothing good ended up coming from that. Doubt they would go down that road again.

I think Red would make a solid choice as long as he is not committed to 100% Zone.

His recruiting has been pretty disappointing. Our recruiting hasn't been this bad since the days of Louis Orr as lead recruiter.

 

[Day2]

No offense, but I wish the board would stop this sht. It’s what the football board did with Sean Tucker. It makes no sense why this stuff has started here.

Thank you. Everyone acts like they know what the players are thinking, when in reality they’re just projecting what they would be thinking if they were in the same situation.

At the end of the day, it’s meaningless.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Mintz & Symir at 1

JG3 & Taylor at 2

Copland can back up both 1 and 2

Taylor may be able to play some 3?

Keep JG3 under 25 minutes.

We don't play 5 guards in a season.

Back when we were good, and could afford to break in new guys with early season minutes, the 4th guard got 10 minutes a game for half the season, and was used only in emergency after that.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is exactly how I expect the transition to occur. It will be an in-house or familiar face replacement. We are not going to see a full-blown search this time around. People expecting that are going to be extremely disappointed. JB wanted GMAC as his successor and he was told no. So red as the in-house successor makes sense unless Hop can be shaken free from Washington. Even if he’s let go from Washington I’m not sure hop comes here. He’s likely going to go to the NBA.

Honestly, is there anything to indicate that Red would be good?

Mike was a WAY better recruiter, and despite his flame out, was Coach of the Year in the Pac-12 twice.

Our recruiting has sucked since Mike left, and it was bad Mike's last year, when he knew Boeheim wouldn't willingly leave because of feeling wronged by sanctions, and Mike had his agent looking for new opportunities.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I hadn't heard that.

I completely believe it, though.

 

[IthacaMatt]

MORE:
Mark Few was an in-house replacement (Gonzaga)
Jamie Dixon (Pitt)
Chris Mack (Xavier)
Jay Wright (Nova)
Jeff Jones (Virginia)
Steve Fisher (Michigan)
Chris Holtman (Butler)
Steve Lavin (UCLA)
Brian Dutcher (SDSU)
Mark Adams (Texas Tech)
Jim Boeheim (Syracuse)

Good list. Thanks for putting it together.
Internal hires can work. Odds are probably against them, IMO, at least at big programs. I think Mike was our guy - he had the hype, he had recognition, he already had the East Coast recruiting ties and a super reputation. That was our guy, if it's going to be an internal hire.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

50-50

That goes against every public statement from him that I have seen.

 

[Day2]

His recruiting has been pretty disappointing. Our recruiting hasn't been this bad since the days of Louis Orr as lead recruiter.

You guys blame the recruiting on something different each day:
1. Red can’t recruit
2. G-Mac can’t recruit
3. No one wants to play for JB
4. No one knows when JB is retiring
5. JB is turning prospects away

You can’t have it both ways. If JB is the problem, then Red and G-Mac are limited.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Your handicapping could be right on the money. I certainly don't know. But is anybody else underwhelmed at the notion of Red or Hop (or any other assistant for that matter) being named the next HC? There has got to be a proven commodity out there that is a better option and that could be lured to the Hill.

It's another step toward irrelevance. It's going to be an unsuccessful hire. I just hope they don't give them more than 3 years, whoever it is.