Who’s it gonna be guys and gals?

[TheCusian]

That's just what I meant. I don't think anybody wins it outright in camp. I think Tommy is the Game One starter, and how long he remains the starter is going to get decided pretty quickly. He has to win all 4 of those OOC games. I'll be surprised if that happens.

He doesn’t have to win them all, he needs to play well enough to win. Not for nothing, but I think he’ll have something extra for Rutgers

 

[JRHEETER]

So during the summer months are the QBs doing playbook reviews or watching tape at the coaches house? How much interaction is permitted or are there no limitations? So for example can Lamson, Jorts, TD and Jacoby spend an evening at Gilbert's house watching tape or playbook?

TD is probably too busy playing Madden in the e-game room

 

[orangepassion]

Money, I agree Devito is not great in these situations but those receivers that were good at improvising are no longer here.

Watch the receivers a bit closer if you look at old games (like I do) and you see Taj do nothing but pout if the play doesn’t go perfect, NJ is much better Q seems to be indifferent when the play breaks down (I’ll blame youth for him). We have one of the worst receiver groups since the Tim Lane and Rice Moss days (that’s Dino’s fault I know).

But these receivers are the least hungry bunch I have seen in a long time and is a reason why I said it might not have been such a bad thing to lose Lustig from a WR point of view (though ST will likely suffer)

The contrast in Sean Riley from Dungey's senior year to the following year was stunning. He was really good in Dungey's senior year-Not the same player the following year. Not a coincidence

 

[IthacaMatt]

He doesn’t have to win them all, he needs to play well enough to win. Not for nothing, but I think he’ll have something extra for Rutgers

If we lose to Ohio or Liberty again, and Tommy has a really poor game, he will give way to Shrader, and then we'll see what the big guy has learned since January about our offense.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The contrast in Sean Riley from Dungey's senior year to the following year was stunning. He was really good in Dungey's senior year-Not the same player the following year. Not a coincidence

It seemed like in 2019 TD was only looking for Trishton too much. I am sure the two practiced a lot together since neither were really playing in 2018. Our WRs went from:

Riley 64 to 36
Nykeim 41 to 19
Taj 40 to 37
Neal 13 to 29 (mainly replaced Strickland's 15)
Sharod 7 to 0
Hackett 4 to 23 (mainly replaced Ravian's 16)
Tirshton 3 to 66 (mainly replaced Custis' 51 and Butler's 14)
Jarveon 1 to 9
Benson 0 to 8
Adams 0 to 15

So we threw to the slots a lot less (50+) but threw to the RBs/TEs more (30+).

 

[TheCusian]

It seemed like in 2019 TD was only looking for Trishton too much. I am sure the two practiced a lot together since neither were really playing in 2018. Our WRs went from:

Riley 64 to 36
Nykeim 41 to 19
Taj 40 to 37
Neal 13 to 29 (mainly replaced Strickland's 15)
Sharod 7 to 0
Hackett 4 to 23 (mainly replaced Ravian's 16)
Tirshton 3 to 66 (mainly replaced Custis' 51 and Butler's 14)
Jarveon 1 to 9
Benson 0 to 8
Adams 0 to 15

So we threw to the slots a lot less (50+) but threw to the RBs/TEs more (30+).

We played less with that third WR to keep more blocking in due to the OL play I think

 

[Shenexon]

Honestly, I view them as two separate issues. My opinion here [shared by many, I believe] is that the two biggest determinants of the program's success will be QB play and the performance of the OL. Nothing controversial there.

But I separate them, because I believe that the OL is positioned well to improve. We have guys coming back from injury, we have new guys who weren't available last year, and improved depth, plus a new OL coach.

As for QB -- DeVito has all of the tools, but has demonstrated a poor feel for the game and subpar in-game instincts. In shorts, he excels -- but when the pass rush is live, things seem to happen too quickly for him, negating his arm talent somewhat. Now, perhaps the competition enables him to kick it up a notch this offseason, and he'll have a better senior year than his previous seasons.

If so, great. But that's all about his growth / development. Shrader was a higher rated recruit. He's kind of the opposite of DeVito, in that he doesn't have beautiful throwing mechanics, but he's a playmaker who moves the sticks. Like Dungey, his strengths can partially mask subpar OL play, if that continues to be an issue. He started games as a true frosh in the SEC, against some very good teams, and produced [not easy for a true frosh]. He's far from perfect, but he might be just what the doctor ordered to jump start what's been an anemic offense these past two years.

So yes -- I think it comes down to whether DeVito shows improvement. If he doesn't, he might lose his starting spot.

Certainly, having improved OL play is going to benefit whoever lines up under center, as well.

Wonderful post. I’m starting out very bullish on this team. I’m thinking the line is going to surprise and allow a fine group of RB’s to be the heart of our offense. I think the QB position is wide open with any one of several players winning the starting role. I’m not sure that TD is the front runner going into the fall. I think Dino sent us a signal by not sending a QB to the ACC media days. We don’t have our starting QB yet. If I had to guess, I think Schrader is going to be hard to leave on the bench. He’s got some tools that TD has struggled with. From my standpoint, a true QB competition is a great problem to have...

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We played less with that third WR to keep more blocking in due to the OL play I think

We threw the ball 1.46 more times per game in 2018 but only completed 0.015 more completions per game. He had one extra game in 2018 so the difference was distribution but not overall volume. Also it cost us nearly 25 ypg dumping it to the RBs/TEs instead. Oddly our QB rating was better in 2019 but a lot of our passing success came in garbage time.

 

[tep624]

If we lose to Ohio or Liberty again, and Tommy has a really poor game, he will give way to Shrader, and then we'll see what the big guy has learned since January about our offense.

If we lose to Ohio or Liberty Dino may not be around to decide who to spell Tommy with. I’m saying that tongue in cheek for the most part but seriously that just can’t happen.

Wonderful post. I’m starting out very bullish on this team. I’m thinking the line is going to surprise and allow a fine group of RB’s to be the heart of our offense. I think the QB position is wide open with any one of several players winning the starting role. I’m not sure that TD is the front runner going into the fall. I think Dino sent us a signal by not sending a QB to the ACC media days. We don’t have our starting QB yet. If I had to guess, I think Schrader is going to be hard to leave on the bench. He’s got some tools that TD has struggled with. From my standpoint, a true QB competition is a great problem to have...

I’m bullish if the OL is anything more than serviceable. We’ve got some serious young talent at the skill positions we haven’t even seen yet and the healthiest QB depth chart in some time. Solid talent on D too. So if the OL is above average I think we’ll surprise this year.

 

[TheCusian]

If we lose to Ohio or Liberty again, and Tommy has a really poor game, he will give way to Shrader, and then we'll see what the big guy has learned since January about our offense.

I'm with you - but if we get into a shoot out with Liberty and TD throws for 300, 3 TD and we lose by a point he's not losing his job. We'd need to lose and him play awful, IMO

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If we lose to Ohio or Liberty Dino may not be around to decide who to spell Tommy with. I’m saying that tongue in cheek for the most part but seriously that just can’t happen.

I’m bullish if the OL is anything more than serviceable. We’ve got some serious young talent at the skill positions we haven’t even seen yet and the healthiest QB depth chart in some time. Solid talent on D too. So if the OL is above average I think we’ll surprise this year.

Is it realistic to expect the OL to be anything more than serviceable? Given where they are starting and how far we have been from serviceable the last 2 years? Given likely 2 new starters and a new OL coach? Given that we haven't had a more than serviceable OL since Marrone kids graduated?

 

[Shenexon]

Is it realistic to expect the OL to be anything more than serviceable? Given where they are starting and how far we have been from serviceable the last 2 years? Given likely 2 new starters and a new OL coach? Given that we haven't had a more than serviceable OL since Marrone kids graduated?

I'm not really sure it's going to be easy to trust our assessments of probable serviceability until the season starts. We get pretty jaded between optimistic, realistic, and pessimistic expectations over time. I do think serviceability can be linked to depth and think OL depth will be greatly improved. Our new OL coach has had success and has options. That's enough for me personally to be kinda bullish compared with the realistic pessimism we were blessed with last year especially. There is at least some reason to think the OL will be better and improvement can be contagious. LGO!!

 

[cusefan88]

Liberty is a legit Top 25 team with a top 100 NFL Draft QB. I mean...that's going to be a tough tough game to win.

 

[Scooch]

It's about managing the locker room. We brought in that kid from Oklahoma to QB us years ago, and he failed to win the job.

Tommy will clearly start game 1. He may not finish it, but I guarantee that he will start it.

Counter point... if TD was a beloved locker room figure that the staff and players have complete confidence in, the other guy wouldn't be here.

I'm not suggesting at all that the players don't like Tommy. I'm sure they do, he seems like a good guy. But I think it's far-fetched that there'd be some internal rebellion if the staff went with the transfer after he played better in camp. Players want to win.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Counter point... if TD was a beloved locker room figure that the staff and players have complete confidence in, the other guy wouldn't be here.

I'm not suggesting at all that the players don't like Tommy. I'm sure they do, he seems like a good guy. But I think it's far-fetched that there'd be some internal rebellion if the staff went with the transfer if he plays better in camp. Players want to win.

Not what I'm saying, that Tommy is "beloved", or that a locker room revolt would happen if Shrader is the starting QB. No doubt Tommy has some guys on the team who really like him and respect his talent, and others who do not. We've seen enough sidelines antics these past couple years to know that.

But it's about what is perceived to be fair treatment. Guys don't usually lose their jobs because of injury, we are often told in the press, by professional coaches and college coaches.

The reason 4 guards transferred away from the basketball team 2 years ago was player concerns about fairness. Losing all 4 forwards this offseason seems somewhat similar.

Players want to be treated fairly.

For that reason, and the potential upside if he got over his "happy feet" and has a good offensive line, he will get the first shot. He could put up some numbers with his arm talent. It's his heart that people question, and his decision making under pressure.

 

[JeffCuse]

I'm with you - but if we get into a shoot out with Liberty and TD throws for 300, 3 TD and we lose by a point he's not losing his job. We'd need to lose and him play awful, IMO

If he throws the ball to all parts of the field for 300 yards and looks good doing it I want him as the QB win or lose.

Problem is,his track record is passes that are either at or behind the line of scrimmage or deep sideline throws. We need an intermediate passing game. We need to use the middle of the field. We need to add the slants, crosses, and posts back into our offense. We need more 10-15 yard passes.

If he can develop a holistic passing tree that includes this, let him play all year. I’m good w that. If not, and Shrader can, go with him.

 

[Scooch]

Not what I'm saying, that Tommy is "beloved", or that a locker room revolt would happen if Shrader is the starting QB. No doubt Tommy has some guys on the team who really like him and respect his talent, and others who do not. We've seen enough sidelines antics these past couple years to know that.

But it's about what is perceived to be fair treatment. Guys don't usually lose their jobs because of injury, we are often told in the press, by professional coaches and college coaches.

The reason 4 guards transferred away from the basketball team 2 years ago was player concerns about fairness. Losing all 4 forwards this offseason seems somewhat similar.

Players want to be treated fairly.

For that reason, and the potential upside if he got over his "happy feet" and has a good offensive line, he will get the first shot. He could put up some numbers with his arm talent. It's his heart that people question, and his decision making under pressure.

Would people think that he lost the job due to injury, though? As far as I know, TD practiced all spring, and presumably will this summer as well.

What's more fair than an open competition where one player outperforms another and wins a starting job? Seems like "unfair" would see Shrader being better this August, but TD getting the starting job, because reasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Would people think that he lost the job due to injury, though? As far as I know, TD practiced all spring, and presumably will this summer as well.

What's more fair than an open competition where one player outperforms another and wins a starting job? Seems like "unfair" would see Shrader being better this August, but TD getting the starting job, because reasons.

Yeah, I already said that if Shrader is the starting QB in game one, he will have had to outplay Tommy by a clear and significant margin. Otherwise, I look at Dino's track record up to this point, and what I see is that he far more willing to play young guys on defense than he is on offense.

That's why I feel almost certain that Tommy will start game one, and his future will be decided by his on-field performance. If we are trailing by a couple scores in any of these early games and Shrader engineers a comeback win, he's likely to win the job.

Although I do note that Tommy did that his freshman year (engineer a comeback win) when Dungey was not throwing the ball well at all, but then the next week Dungey got the start and produced a terrific game. But I think with Tommy's history, coming off a 1 win season, if he has a crap game or two, Dino's going with one of the other guys. (We have 4 QBs with starting experience now!)

 

[Goin' Deep]

Not what I'm saying, that Tommy is "beloved", or that a locker room revolt would happen if Shrader is the starting QB. No doubt Tommy has some guys on the team who really like him and respect his talent, and others who do not. We've seen enough sidelines antics these past couple years to know that.

But it's about what is perceived to be fair treatment. Guys don't usually lose their jobs because of injury, we are often told in the press, by professional coaches and college coaches.

The reason 4 guards transferred away from the basketball team 2 years ago was player concerns about fairness. Losing all 4 forwards this offseason seems somewhat similar.

Players want to be treated fairly.

For that reason, and the potential upside if he got over his "happy feet" and has a good offensive line, he will get the first shot. He could put up some numbers with his arm talent. It's his heart that people question, and his decision making under pressure.

Not his heart OR decision making...
It's the lack of QB intuitive skills. WE NEED TO SEE that TD can move in the pocket to extend plays, when flushed out of the pocket can he look down field to find a receiver instead of tucking it and running... we need to see that he can check down to a 2nd and 3rd option when the first is not open.
He has taken some "shots"...his heart is beyond question. His "mechanics" are top notch. It's what happens the first 2 seconds after the snap when he can't go to option #1.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I really, really miss the days of Dave Rahme giving us preseason practice observations and anecdotes. I also miss a lot of other things about when SU football was good but such is life.

2018 we didn't even see coming. We couldn't relish and savor it because it was over before we knew what hit us.

 

[All4SU]

Counter point... if TD was a beloved locker room figure that the staff and players have complete confidence in, the other guy wouldn't be here.

I don’t know that that’s true. You want another couple quality guys in case of injuries. We certainly know all about that these last many years.

 

[cusefan88]

I really, really miss the days of Dave Rahme giving us preseason practice observations and anecdotes. I also miss a lot of other things about when SU football was good but such is life.

2018 we didn't even see coming. We couldn't relish and savor it because it was over before we knew what hit us.

As a kid growing up in CNY, I really appreciate even more now how good the FB/BB beat reporters were (and still are for BB). Donnie Webb/Dave Rahme on FB, Donna/Mike for BB.

 

[Scooch]

I don’t know that that’s true. You want another couple quality guys in case of injuries. We certainly know all about that these last many years.

In the abstract, I agree. This staff has shown an unwillingness to bring in transfer QBs though. And we have two younger QBs with game experience. So my gut tells me that if TD was seen as a world-beater by the staff, the transfer would have gone somewhere else. But I'm just speculating of course.

 

[RF2044]

Is it realistic to expect the OL to be anything more than serviceable? Given where they are starting and how far we have been from serviceable the last 2 years? Given likely 2 new starters and a new OL coach? Given that we haven't had a more than serviceable OL since Marrone kids graduated?

First of all, serviceable would be a huge step forward.

I think it is realistic in the sense that we can field an actual two-deep [as opposed to having 6 guards -- SIX! -- injured last season], that a couple of guys who started last year might shift to the second unit, and that we might have improved coaching at OL. And I'm not even counting any of the incoming recruits / the JUCO in that number.

Options are going to go a LONG way towards improved performance. Last year, we couldn't even cobble together five guys who weren't injured, with virtually no depth. For comparison, we came out of spring practice this year with only one notable OL injury, with the rest of the group ready to go for the start of camp.

I get the skepticism, but the elements are in place.

 

[All4SU]

In the abstract, I agree. This staff has shown an unwillingness to bring in transfer QBs though. And we have two younger QBs with game experience. So my gut tells me that if TD was seen as a world-beater by the staff, the transfer would have gone somewhere else. But I'm just speculating of course.

Could also mean a lack of confidence in the current back-ups.