Who is the greatest PG in SU history?

[rrlbees]

It's a helluva lot closer than 31-6. Completely different players in my mind. :30 to go down 1 in a big game? Pearl Running a team for 40 minutes, give me Sherm. Want to be entertained? Pearl in a landslide. Leadership skills? Sherm in another landslide. Defense. To be honest, neither were outstanding. Someone mentioned above that Pearl didn't play defense. Let the record show that his 2.3 steals per game rank him way above Sherman's 1.8 and I think top 3 all time. Did Pearl take plays off? Yep. But he had an incredible knack for jumping a passing lane or picking someone's pocket clean for break away. Sherm was the smartest player I ever saw on the court. Pearl was the most intuitive. Sherman played with great intensity. Pearl played with great joy...like he was toying with you. Go watch the 30 for 30. Watch the segment on Pearl. There was just something about him, at that time, in that conference, against those Hoyas that can't be replicated. If you ask me who the greatest PURE PG is...I'd probably say Sherm. If you ask me who the greatest scoring PG is, I'd say Pearl. I'd love to see Pearl play 2 seasons with Coleman or Owens. It cannot be argued that Sherman played with a more talented cast. Those alley oops probably wouldn't have been as successful if Andre Hawkins and Sean Kerins were on the other end.

Great post on the topic.

 

[Jake]

And for the record my top 5 would be:

1) Pearl
1a) Sherm

It gets really fuzzy from here. What pisses me off is these younger kids go early. If he had stayed 4 years, MCW would have put up some sick, sick numbers.

3)Autry
4) Hart
5) Mcw(oneore season and he's #3)

I think ennis was great, but completely his inability to push the ball is a huge negative.

 

[obliterata]

It's a helluva lot closer than 31-6. Completely different players in my mind.

:30 to go down 1 in a big game? Pearl

Running a team for 40 minutes, give me Sherm.

Want to be entertained? Pearl in a landslide.

Leadership skills? Sherm in another landslide.

Defense. To be honest, neither were outstanding. Someone mentioned above that Pearl didn't play defense. Let the record show that his 2.3 steals per game rank him way above Sherman's 1.8 and I think top 3 all time.

Did Pearl take plays off? Yep. But he had an incredible knack for jumping a passing lane or picking someone's pocket clean for break away.

Sherm was the smartest player I ever saw on the court.

Pearl was the most intuitive.

Sherman played with great intensity.

Pearl played with great joy...like he was toying with you.

Go watch the 30 for 30. Watch the segment on Pearl. There was just something about him, at that time, in that conference, against those Hoyas that can't be replicated.

If you ask me who the greatest PURE PG is...I'd probably say Sherm.

If you ask me who the greatest scoring PG is, I'd say Pearl.

I'd love to see Pearl play 2 seasons with Coleman or Owens.

It cannot be argued that Sherman played with a more talented cast. Those alley oops probably wouldn't have been as successful if Andre Hawkins and Sean Kerins were on the other end.

Great post.

Sherm had advantages that Pearl just didn't have that translated into more success in the Big East and beyond. He had 3 years with DC and Stevie Thompson, 2 with Owens, plus jr and sr year Seikaly. Pearl never played with the first 3 and Seikaly was a not nearly as effective fr and soph when Pearl was here.

Sherm also never had to play against teams with Ewing, Mullin, or Pinckney on them - those guys were BE royalty who led very strong teams that had great success.

Pearl was Big East royalty too, I voted for him.

 

[SWC75]

Sherman. Bing's postion was superstar. The Pearl is just behind Sherman. GMAC is a distance away. Flynn, MCW and Ennis were good but not here long enough. Sims had one great eaer. I always liked Alan Griffin. He should have been at the point while Jason hart should have shifted to the "2". Hart was a four year startter but not a great point guard. Autry was good as junior and senior but not before that. Jimmy Williams combined with Rudy Hackett to send us to San Diego. Eddie Moss is under-rated.

 

[SWC75]

I was just a kid in the 80s. I would love to hear from more senior fans, how did JB do it? How did he recruit Addison, the Pearl, Sherm, Seikaly, Coleman, Thompson, Owens, etc etc to freezing Syracuse? I mean the talent in the roughly 5 year stretch from 86-91 has only been matched once at SU (2009-2014) imo. How did JB do it in those earlier days before SU was even close to the likes of UNC, IU, UL, UCLA? Was it just luck or who were the big recruiters back then w JB?

Dome + Big East + ESPN + JB.

 

[stone567]

It's a helluva lot closer than 31-6. Completely different players in my mind.

:30 to go down 1 in a big game? Pearl

Running a team for 40 minutes, give me Sherm.

Want to be entertained? Pearl in a landslide.

Leadership skills? Sherm in another landslide.

Defense. To be honest, neither were outstanding. Someone mentioned above that Pearl didn't play defense. Let the record show that his 2.3 steals per game rank him way above Sherman's 1.8 and I think top 3 all time.

Did Pearl take plays off? Yep. But he had an incredible knack for jumping a passing lane or picking someone's pocket clean for break away.

Sherm was the smartest player I ever saw on the court.

Pearl was the most intuitive.

Sherman played with great intensity.

Pearl played with great joy...like he was toying with you.

Go watch the 30 for 30. Watch the segment on Pearl. There was just something about him, at that time, in that conference, against those Hoyas that can't be replicated.

If you ask me who the greatest PURE PG is...I'd probably say Sherm.

If you ask me who the greatest scoring PG is, I'd say Pearl.

I'd love to see Pearl play 2 seasons with Coleman or Owens.

It cannot be argued that Sherman played with a more talented cast. Those alley oops probably wouldn't have been as successful if Andre Hawkins and Sean Kerins were on the other end.

Great post. Really cant add much more. You really had to watch Pearl. Statistics do not do him justice, and he did not have the talent that Sherm had.

 

[orange2win]

It's a helluva lot closer than 31-6. Completely different players in my mind.

:30 to go down 1 in a big game? Pearl

Running a team for 40 minutes, give me Sherm.

Want to be entertained? Pearl in a landslide.

Leadership skills? Sherm in another landslide.

Defense. To be honest, neither were outstanding. Someone mentioned above that Pearl didn't play defense. Let the record show that his 2.3 steals per game rank him way above Sherman's 1.8 and I think top 3 all time.

Did Pearl take plays off? Yep. But he had an incredible knack for jumping a passing lane or picking someone's pocket clean for break away.

Sherm was the smartest player I ever saw on the court.

Pearl was the most intuitive.

Sherman played with great intensity.

Pearl played with great joy...like he was toying with you.

Go watch the 30 for 30. Watch the segment on Pearl. There was just something about him, at that time, in that conference, against those Hoyas that can't be replicated.

If you ask me who the greatest PURE PG is...I'd probably say Sherm.

If you ask me who the greatest scoring PG is, I'd say Pearl.

I'd love to see Pearl play 2 seasons with Coleman or Owens.

It cannot be argued that Sherman played with a more talented cast. Those alley oops probably wouldn't have been as successful if Andre Hawkins and Sean Kerins were on the other end.

Well stated. Excellent summary of the two greatest PG's in the JB era.

Sherm was our dependable meat and potatoes man. Pearl was caviar.

The stuff that Pearl could do with the ball was unique. He operated on another level. A super star who took my breath away. He was the best - no equals and he knew it.

Sherm was our hardest worker. All about winning. He made the whole team click. A pleasure to watch. Brought me four fabulous years of joy.

 

[RF2044]

Well stated. Excellent summary of the two greatest PG's in the JB era.

Sherm was our dependable meat and potatoes man. Pearl was caviar.

The stuff that Pearl could do with the ball was unique. He operated on another level. A super star who took my breath away. He was the best - no equals and he knew it.

Sherm was our hardest worker. All about winning. He made the whole team click. A pleasure to watch. Brought me four fabulous years of joy.

That was a good post by Jake, but I completely disagree with your assessment of Sherman being "meat and potatoes." Categorically disagree with that, in fact. Meat and potatoes was Jason Hart. Sherman Douglas was the most exciting player in program history, including Pearl. He might not have had Pearl's superlative handle--but no other player we've had [including Flynn / Autry] have. But his creative flair exceeded Pearl's in terms of orchestrating a high powered attack. Pearl was a good passer, but the majority of his creativity was to get himself shots. Sherman not only got himself shots, he got EVERYBODY else shots.

As far as the "more talent" argument, it isn't nearly as big of a factor as what people are suggesting. Sherman absolutely MADE Seikaly's career--both at the collegiate level, and when they played together in the NBA.

In defense of Pearl, he could do things with the ball on a string that almost nobody else could do. I have watched a 1986 BET semifinals game, where we beat Georgetown, and they would literally try to press him full court with the entire team. You heard me, with the entire team. Pearl would have two guys on him and two other guys racing to get to him, and he'd dribble around, through, and past them. You never see stuff like that today.

But to claim that he was caviar while Sherman was ordinary--nah, not by a long shot. I'll take the ultimate competitor over someone who was inherently lazy any day. And in terms of exciting ball--yeah, Pearl was exciting. Sherman was even more exciting. Sherman's teammates didn't make him, it was the other way around.

The best way I can describe it is that Pearl had million dollar talent but a ten-cent work ethic. Sherman had $750K talent, but was so competitive and quarterbacked the team at such a high level that he truly made his teammates better. And ultimately, that is the mark of a truly elite point guard. Not just sizzle.

 

[ithacat]

Great debate. It's Pearl. The Dome is the house that Pearl built. SU basketball is what it is because of the Pearl.

 

[Jack Hall]

That was a good post by Jake, but I completely disagree with your assessment of Sherman being "meat and potatoes." Categorically disagree with that, in fact. Meat and potatoes was Jason Hart. Sherman Douglas was the most exciting player in program history, including Pearl. He might not have had Pearl's superlative handle--but no other player we've had [including Flynn / Autry] have. But his creative flair exceeded Pearl's in terms of orchestrating a high powered attack. Pearl was a good passer, but the majority of his creativity was to get himself shots. Sherman not only got himself shots, he got EVERYBODY else shots.

As far as the "more talent" argument, it isn't nearly as big of a factor as what people are suggesting. Sherman absolutely MADE Seikaly's career--both at the collegiate level, and when they played together in the NBA.

In defense of Pearl, he could do things with the ball on a string that almost nobody else could do. I have watched a 1986 BET semifinals game, where we beat Georgetown, and they would literally try to press him full court with the entire team. You heard me, with the entire team. Pearl would have two guys on him and two other guys racing to get to him, and he'd dribble around, through, and past them. You never see stuff like that today.

But to claim that he was caviar while Sherman was ordinary--nah, not by a long shot. I'll take the ultimate competitor over someone who was inherently lazy any day. And in terms of exciting ball--yeah, Pearl was exciting. Sherman was even more exciting. Sherman's teammates didn't make him, it was the other way around.

The best way I can describe it is that Pearl had million dollar talent but a ten-cent work ethic. Sherman had $750K talent, but was so competitive and quarterbacked the team at such a high level that he truly made his teammates better. And ultimately, that is the mark of a truly elite point guard. Not just sizzle.

You make great points and i cant really disagree, but wont you always wonder if Pearl had been our pg in 87-89? Maybe we win a title? That is no slam on Sherm, he is my fav player ever. But i will always wonder. For the longest time i feared if we could not win a title w Sherm (and RS, DC, ST, BO) 87-89 then maybe JB would never win one. Thank god for Carm, Hak and Gmac, etc

 

[RF2044]

You make great points and i cant really disagree, but wont you always wonder if Pearl had been our pg in 87-89? Maybe we win a title? That is no slam on Sherm, he is my fav player ever. But i will always wonder. For the longest time i feared if we could not win a title w Sherm (and RS, DC, ST, BO) 87-89 then maybe JB would never win one. Thank god for Carm, Hak and Gmac, etc

This is hard to say, because I LOVE Pearl. But I think him going pro was addition by subtraction and ended up benefiting the team. In other words, we wouldn't have gone to the NC game with Pearl at the helm of that 87 squad instead of Sherman.

It's the same belief I have about Jonny Flynn--great player, but if he comes back for his junior year, that '10 team doesn't have perfect balance / chemistry. That was addition by subtraction, too, even though the players who left were immensely talented.

 

[Madbiker]

Can only comment on the JB Era as I didn't see Bing.

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
3. Autry
4. MCW (would be #3 if he stayed another year)

 

[Jack Hall]

This is hard to say, because I LOVE Pearl. But I think him going pro was addition by subtraction and ended up benefiting the team. In other words, we wouldn't have gone to the NC game with Pearl at the helm of that 87 squad instead of Sherman.

It's the same belief I have about Jonny Flynn--great player, but if he comes back for his junior year, that '10 team doesn't have perfect balance / chemistry. That was addition by subtraction, too, even though the players who left were immensely talented.

You know i have always wondered how we didnt win a title in 87-89, but then CTO or someone had a post the other day about banning a kid from practice and she/he quoted JB as saying that DC loved to get kicked out of practice and how he would put his clothes over his jersey and bolt outta there and i thought, aha thats why they didnt win one. But seriously, its tough to win it all, if UNLV in 91 (even tho they won in 90) could come up short anyone can

 

[RF2044]

Can only comment on the JB Era as I didn't see Bing.

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
3. Autry
4. MCW (would be #3 if he stayed another year)

I think that is exactly how my top 4 unfold. I'd probably slate MCW ahead of Hart based upon raw talent. Hart [another of my favorites--kid was the hardest working player in practice we ever had. He approached every thing he did--on the court and in the classroom--with maximum effort] is a lot like Nolan Ryan to me--not as spectacular as other guys ahead of him on the list, but he gets points for the longevity.

 

[rrlbees]

I think people are really undervaluing the passing ability of Pearl. He averaged over 6apg each season, was 6.7 for his career and was 7.8 his junior season before leaving. Since Sherm, nobody has had a career apg higher than Pearl, nobody higher than that junior season, and only 2 seasons has anyone had more than that 6.7. And while he had some very good talent like Raf, it wasn't anything like DC, Owens, Thompson and an experienced Rony.

He was an amazing passer.

 

[SWC75]

You know i have always wondered how we didnt win a title in 87-89, but then CTO or someone had a post the other day about banning a kid from practice and she/he quoted JB as saying that DC loved to get kicked out of practice and how he would put his clothes over his jersey and bolt outta there and i thought, aha thats why they didnt win one. But seriously, its tough to win it all, if UNLV in 91 (even tho they won in 90) could come up short anyone can

It was "someone".

 

[Jake]

I think people are really undervaluing the passing ability of Pearl. He averaged over 6apg each season, was 6.7 for his career and was 7.8 his junior season before leaving. Since Sherm, nobody has had a career apg higher than Pearl, nobody higher than that junior season, and only 2 seasons has anyone had more than that 6.7. And while he had some very good talent like Raf, it wasn't anything like DC, Owens, Thompson and an experienced Rony. He was an amazing passer.

I was just looking up the exact same info to make the exact same point.

Assists per 40 minutes.

Sherm has an insane 9.38
Pearl had an equally impressive 8.01
MCW was at 8.25.

Pearl was not a ball hog and created a ton for his teammates.

 

[SWC75]

I think people are really undervaluing the passing ability of Pearl. He averaged over 6apg each season, was 6.7 for his career and was 7.8 his junior season before leaving. Since Sherm, nobody has had a career apg higher than Pearl, nobody higher than that junior season, and only 2 seasons has anyone had more than that 6.7. And while he had some very good talent like Raf, it wasn't anything like DC, Owens, Thompson and an experienced Rony.

He was an amazing passer.

Pearl was Houdini. Sherman was Cirque du Soleil.

 

[Jack Hall]

It was "someone".

My bad! Seriously i apologize!

Ive had 5 concussions in my lifetime if its any excuse

 

[Jack Hall]

I think people are really undervaluing the passing ability of Pearl. He averaged over 6apg each season, was 6.7 for his career and was 7.8 his junior season before leaving. Since Sherm, nobody has had a career apg higher than Pearl, nobody higher than that junior season, and only 2 seasons has anyone had more than that 6.7. And while he had some very good talent like Raf, it wasn't anything like DC, Owens, Thompson and an experienced Rony.

He was an amazing passer.

Pearl reminded me of Magic Johnson more than any other Cuse player in the way he had the ball on a string, and imo that applied to his scoring AND his passing

 

[orange2win]

And ultimately, that is the mark of a truly elite point guard. Not just sizzle.

Okay, change my "meat and potatoes" to your "Not just sizzle." Can we agree now?

I think all of us are saying the same thing. Pearl and the General were very different type of PGs. Both legends. Both super. Love them both.

 

[SWC75]

Pearl reminded me of Magic Johnson more than any other Cuse player in the way he had the ball on a string, and imo that applied to his scoring AND his passing

Lakers in the NBA = Syracuse in the NCAA in those days.

 

[SWC75]

When the Dome was an Oyster:

 

[SWC75]

Showtime in Syracuse:

 

[CaliCuse]

Lakers in the NBA = Syracuse in the NCAA in those days.

Pearl didn't have the great shot ability away from the basket. Close in he was dominant When Dave bing came,I had never seen anyone play like him. I never really thought that Bing had a decent outside game. His jumper was more like a jump push shot. He had some success but graded low in style. Yeah ,I know style doesn't normally equate with success. The fact that he could jump out of Manley was exciting and a "wow"player.