Wildhack is on the Clock

[Bulldong04]

Honestly though we all heard in the preseason Donna and Waters and Axe and Mike McA, and the rest of the local media bunch talking about this as a potential tourney team or a a likely a bubble team with the Talent. They need to own up to just how wrong they were as well cuz they were drinking the koolaid too. Seems like everyone is still living in a different reality in CNY.

We need to learn from Fran, Nip this losers mentality at the bud across the board, coaches, players, and everyone associated with this downturn (maybe try to salvage the 18 year olds).

Until then the money faucet should be turned off from our donors and fans,

I think everyone was wrong. Me included. There were a lot of believers

 

[MSOrange]

I think everyone was wrong. Me included. There were a lot of believers

Exactly. Just look at the iggy prediction thread, me included.

 

[djcon57]

Honestly though we all heard in the preseason …. Waters

Yes we did.

 

[UpstateSM]

And plenty of us saw the writing on the wall and it wasn't because we were haters or overly negative. I usually convince myself with every team and this was the first time ever where it was just too obvious that it wasn't going to work.

 

[phil77]

If I was the dude who stepped up and paid for Eddie I'd never give this coach another cent of my money

This is a big fear of mine as well. After watching this how does Red sell give me money and I will make it work. If we think our NIL is bad now wait for what it looks like next year when Red sticks his hand out.

The only thing that will get the donors back is cleaning house and getting in a coach that will inspire them again like Fran did. That is what I am waiting for to start giving to basketball NIL again. Red doesn't inspire confidence so I stopped giving and am now giving more to football.

 

[djcon57]

I think everyone was wrong. Me included. There were a lot of believers

Yeah I think you’ve said you were wrong plenty. No need for pile on imo.

Now others that have ran away? Would be nice to see some mea culpas after some of the suggestions they made of folks being bad fans etc

 

[Cusefan0307]

I feel the same way about SU basketball right now as I did with SU football in 2007 when I stopped going to the games until Doug was hired. Too busy with life to waste my time on this and I’ve given thousands to this program over the years.

 

[djcon57]

And plenty of us saw the writing on the wall and it wasn't because we were haters or overly negative. I usually convince myself with every team and this was the first time ever where it was just too obvious that it wasn't going to work.

The stat mockers just didn’t want to see it.

The numbers were just not adding up. These guys were decent mid major players. Guys that have been excelling lately on P5 teams are GREAT mid major players

 

[MikeSU02]

I think everyone was wrong. Me included. There were a lot of believers

I give you more credit than almost anyone since you are close with Red/Red's circle, man. At least you own it. And, to your credit, if I were in your shoes, I'd prob have said the same thing being in that circle (you always want to hold out hope most times).

You don't have to keep doing this self-flagellation. You've been on the up and up and a realist (albeit holding out hope, again, which I would do as well).

 

[MikeSU02]

The stat mockers just didn’t want to see it.

The numbers were just not adding up. These guys were decent mid major players. Guys that have been excelling lately on P5 teams are GREAT mid major players

Yeah, people can take a stroll through this thread for fun:

Are we done with adding players for 2024-25?

I am out of town and have to listen to Infanti and Scibilia to get my Orange fix. They are of the opinion that: 1) We won’t add another starting caliber player from the portal. 2) The team will be fine with what we have. I think this take is incorrect, and if it is correct, we are in trouble...

syracusefan.com

 

[OrangePA]

Normally I would agree but at a basic level, the players don't hustle and look puzzled at both ends of the floor. That to me is a coach that either doesn't know what to do or can't communicate effectively.

Red is a tremendous alum/player/asst coach but he cannot be the HC after this year.

He added multiple grad txfrs in the portal that were supposed to have major impacts and so far have been massive disappointments even if one was due to injury. It’s not the old days of team building. Red did an awful job in the portal this year especially at guard.

The reality is that as an organization the University simply cannot fire a coach after one relatively decent year and eleven games into the second year of a contract.

It costs money. It sends a bad message to the coaching industry. It presents to the basketball world an unstable program that will not attract talent. It is just not the way to do business - no matter how emotional the fans or the members of this board may get about the situation.

Organizations that quickly fire coaches are generally not successful ones. Organizations that show patience and help the coach attract and develop talent over time are generally successful ones.

If Autry is violating rules or mistreating players or engaging in activity that might embarrass the University, then make a change.

But, if it is simply a matter of building a program, patience - rather than changing coaches after less than a year an a half - is the better way to go.

Okay, now really let me have it!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Red really thought Lampkin was the answer over a PG.

 

[Red2003]

The only positive I see after today is that the entirety of our fanbase is now more united than ever in saying:

The football program is on the right track and the basketball is on the wrong track.

 

[phil77]

Yeah, people can take a stroll through this thread for fun:

Are we done with adding players for 2024-25?

I am out of town and have to listen to Infanti and Scibilia to get my Orange fix. They are of the opinion that: 1) We won’t add another starting caliber player from the portal. 2) The team will be fine with what we have. I think this take is incorrect, and if it is correct, we are in trouble...

syracusefan.com

What happened to two3zone ? Did he get banned for telling the truth?

 

[MikeSU02]

The reality is that as an organization the University simply cannot fire a coach after one relatively decent year and eleven games into the second year of a contract.

It costs money. It sends a bad message to the coaching industry. It presents to the basketball world an unstable program that will not attract talent. It is just not the way to do business - no matter how emotional the fans or the members of this board may get about the situation.

Organizations that quickly fire coaches are generally not successful ones. Organizations that show patience and help the coach attract and develop talent over time are generally successful ones.

If Autry is violating rules or mistreating players or engaging in activity that might embarrass the University, then make a change.

But, if it is simply a matter of building a program, patience - rather than changing coaches after less than a year an a half - is the better way to go.

Okay, now really let me have it!

Listen, I won't go over everything I've been posting, but I think if you have someone that was part of the downturn in the last decade as Red was and then you keep him on and the downturn continues, you have a real issue.

Red was on the bench during this downturn. Now he's the head guy and it's continuing to get worse.

It's not one 1.5 years for Red. It's been years. And he got promoted to Associate HC in 2016.

Organizations that continue to promote people that drive poor results usually end up as poor organizations.

 

[powdersmack]

Organizations that quickly fire coaches are generally not successful ones. Organizations that show patience and help the coach attract and develop talent over time are generally successful ones.

Unfortunately, Red has shown exactly zero in the ability to develop talent department.

 

[OttosShoes]

The reality is that as an organization the University simply cannot fire a coach after one relatively decent year and eleven games into the second year of a contract.

It costs money. It sends a bad message to the coaching industry. It presents to the basketball world an unstable program that will not attract talent. It is just not the way to do business - no matter how emotional the fans or the members of this board may get about the situation.

Organizations that quickly fire coaches are generally not successful ones. Organizations that show patience and help the coach attract and develop talent over time are generally successful ones.

If Autry is violating rules or mistreating players or engaging in activity that might embarrass the University, then make a change.

But, if it is simply a matter of building a program, patience - rather than changing coaches after less than a year an a half - is the better way to go.

Okay, now really let me have it!

It's one thing to say 'oh they lost, give it time.'

It's a whole different problem if the person who is supposed to be in charge does not appear to be in charge on national TV.

 

[Orangezoo]

The reality is that as an organization the University simply cannot fire a coach after one relatively decent year and eleven games into the second year of a contract.

It costs money. It sends a bad message to the coaching industry. It presents to the basketball world an unstable program that will not attract talent. It is just not the way to do business - no matter how emotional the fans or the members of this board may get about the situation.

Organizations that quickly fire coaches are generally not successful ones. Organizations that show patience and help the coach attract and develop talent over time are generally successful ones.

If Autry is violating rules or mistreating players or engaging in activity that might embarrass the University, then make a change.

But, if it is simply a matter of building a program, patience - rather than changing coaches after less than a year an a half - is the better way to go.

Okay, now really let me have it!

You have to have competence in who is handling the job. When a brand goes stale and you allow incompetence to persist you are creating even larger issues than those you speak of with a quick change. We have had 2 coaches now in 40 years.
Recognizing a failure in going with an internal hire is not setting the precedent you claim it would. It’s putting a value on competence and results. There is a difference here. In Louisvilles case for instance they’ve been swapping out coaches the last decade. That’s not us or our situation.

Having the money is the biggest concern which many including myself have already stated. So I think your argument is short sighted a bit and not recognizing the points others have made. No one said it’s easy or a home run to make this decision right now but holding out hope when there is no logical reason to do so is rarely a smart business decision either.

 

[Red2003]

The reality is that as an organization the University simply cannot fire a coach after one relatively decent year and eleven games into the second year of a contract.

It costs money. It sends a bad message to the coaching industry. It presents to the basketball world an unstable program that will not attract talent. It is just not the way to do business - no matter how emotional the fans or the members of this board may get about the situation.

Organizations that quickly fire coaches are generally not successful ones. Organizations that show patience and help the coach attract and develop talent over time are generally successful ones.

If Autry is violating rules or mistreating players or engaging in activity that might embarrass the University, then make a change.

But, if it is simply a matter of building a program, patience - rather than changing coaches after less than a year an a half - is the better way to go.

Okay, now really let me have it!

You’re partially right but I think what you’ll hear is that this thinking is pre NIL and a turnaround can happen overnight.

I’ll challenge people a little with a hypothetical.

Do people think Fran Brown would’ve wanted to come to the Hill last December if we would’ve fired Dino a third of the way into a season (that would be late September)?

If yes then the answer is probably we can say bye bye to Autry right now, if no then we need to prob stick it out for awhile longer.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah, people can take a stroll through this thread for fun:

Are we done with adding players for 2024-25?

I am out of town and have to listen to Infanti and Scibilia to get my Orange fix. They are of the opinion that: 1) We won’t add another starting caliber player from the portal. 2) The team will be fine with what we have. I think this take is incorrect, and if it is correct, we are in trouble...

syracusefan.com

Even with that - I don’t think any of us envisioned the level of coaching incompetence that would go alongside with the talent issues.

 

[djcon57]

But, if it is simply a matter of building a program, patience - rather than changing coaches after less than a year an a half - is the better way to go.

Okay, now really let me have it!

You wanted to keep Dino too. Just sayin

 

[Orangezoo]

You’re partially right but I think what you’ll hear is that this thinking is pre NIL and a turnaround can happen overnight.

I’ll challenge people a little with a hypothetical.

Do people think Fran Brown would’ve wanted to come to the Hill last December if we would’ve fired Dino a third of the way into a season (that would be late September)?

If yes then the answer is probably we can say bye bye to Autry right now, if no then we need to prob stick it out for awhile longer.

Dino is one of many over the past 20 years and Autry is one of two over the past 40 and a part of the previous staff. I think that’s a pretty big difference situationally.

 

[Cuse1055]

Listen, I won't go over everything I've been posting, but I think if you have someone that was part of the downturn in the last decade as Red was and then you keep him on and the downturn continues, you have a real issue.

Red was on the bench during this downturn. Now he's the head guy and it's continuing to get worse.

It's not one 1.5 years for Red. It's been years. And he got promoted to Associate HC in 2016.

Organizations that continue to promote people that drive poor results usually end up as poor organizations.

This x100! It’s the definition of insanity.

 

[Red2003]

Dino is one of many over the past 20 years and Autry is one of two over the past 40 and a part of the previous staff. I think that’s a pretty big difference situationally.

I think you missed the point. How fast can a turnaround happen in the current state of the league, this is a semi-pro paid league now?

And second can a solid coach be attracted to a floundering program that fires a coach midway through a season?

I go back and forth but given what I’ve seen from Fran. I don’t see the harm in gambling and finding someone with his qualities.

 

[Red2003]

It's one thing to say 'oh they lost, give it time.'

It's a whole different problem if the person who is supposed to be in charge does not appear to be in charge on national TV.

So I was just thinking similar about being in charge. Remember when we beat UNC last year and Q jumped into the press conference. At first I was high on the win and was like this is awesome.

Now knowing what we know I think back to how little discipline there must be in the program that he had the balls to do that and wasn’t scared of Autry at all.