Will be extremely disappointed if there isnt some new blood at WR Saturday

[TheCusian]

Massive second guessing of coaches who spend every day with these guys whose job depends partly on talent evaluations? Check.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Massive second guessing of coaches who spend every day with these guys whose job depends partly on talent evaluations? Check.

Were not talking somethign subjective like o line play, stats dont lie, our WR's have been awful and thats putting it lightly. At some point you have to see what the backups can offer.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Were not talking somethign subjective like o line play, stats dont lie, our WR's have been awful and thats putting it lightly. At some point you have to see what the backups can offer.

well, im not sure this is like Tom Coughlin telling Jack Bicknell, 'we need to get the 5th stringer in there, this kid Flutie can play'.

if we are going to give hunt a free pass, why not give the WRs??

maybe the proof is in the pudding.

 

[anomander]

Funderbuck wasn't on the injury report he needs some run this game IMO. At the end of the NW game him and Hunt seem to have a connection. I don't care if he can't practice well. Lets see if this guy is a gamer like Sales. Put him out there it can't get any worse.

Just my opinion, but I feel he is serving some sort of unofficial suspension for being academically ineligible last semester. HCSS doesn't seem like the type of guy that takes that stuff lightly. Everything else doesn't add up. We have Marrone's comment last season about being the best WR on the roster, we have seen production at FanFest, and even during Spring camp. Then we also have the Northwestern game where he made 2 plays in very limited attempts. Just my opinion, but I won't be surprised if we find out he is earning back Shafer's trust. A single comment made by HCSS sticks out to me. He was asked how QF was doing or something along those lines, and his answer was - He is working hard, but still has some work to do. Take that fwiw

 

[JeremyCuse]

well, im not sure this is like Tom Coughlin telling Jack Bicknell, 'we need to get the 5th stringer in there, this kid Flutie can play'.

if we are going to give hunt a free pass, why not give the WRs??

maybe the proof is in the pudding.

You make a good point, Hunt should shoulder some of the blame. My argument is that even with Allen out there the WR performance was underwhelming at best. I know it was in garbage time but Moore and Funderburk were at least active and making catches. Can we not give them a few series a game and see what happens?

 

[ForCuseSake]

West has been held without a catch in at least 2 if not 3 games

This is incorrect. I agree that WR play has been bad but West had a streak of 17 games with a catch until Climpsun.

IMHO, the scheme has more to do with subpar WR play than talent level. Hopefully next year, assuming our highly rated commits pan out, will prove which theory is true (i.e. talent vs. scheme).

 

[sutomcat]

It has been proven thru what we have seen on the field that West and Kobena can not get open vs even mediocre D1 talent. They need to step aside. There is almost zero chance that Estime and Funderburke could do as bad or worse. I hate to constantly harp on the "Free Brisly" theme, but the kid needs to play.

Rumors that he will be returning kicks with Morris out are music to my ears. Our return game is crap anyways. This kid is electric, lets get him more than 1 touch per week.

The biggest mysteries to me are West and Wales.

West had 42 catches last season. He can get open against D1 talent. I would have expected him to improve over last season; not regress. What happened?

The same applies to Wales, who had 35 catches last season.

With Wales, I see little to indicate the staff is even trying to get him the ball. Those short crossing patterns over the middle that were his bread and butter seem to be missing from this scheme. But we should keep in mind that Wales appeared to be hurt, and I think he has been hurt all season. Right now, I think he is a shadow of his normal self. Hope he gets better soon; it not only affects our passing game but our running game; he has evolved into a fine blocking TE as well.

With West, there is no question they are trying to get the ball to him, but he is just not getting open. It is really strange; West had a terrific spring game and looked primed for a big year in 2013.

I don't think they moved him to a different WR role (i.e. the slot). Is he just confused by the new plays and terminology? Just doesn't pair well with Hunt or Allen? Maybe he is hurt as well.

I am mystified by what I see on gameday from him.

 

[anomander]

In all fairness to West he was open down the sidelines for a p

The biggest mysteries to me are West and Wales.

West had 42 catches last season. He can get open against D1 talent. I would have expected him to improve over last season; not regress. What happened?

The same applies to Wales, who had 35 catches last season.

With Wales, I see little to indicate the staff is even trying to get him the ball. Those short crossing patterns over the middle that were his bread and butter seem to be missing from this scheme. But we should keep in mind that Wales appeared to be hurt, and I think he has been hurt all season. Right now, I think he is a shadow of his normal self. Hope he gets better soon; it not only affects our passing game but our running game; he has evolved into a fine blocking TE as well.

With West, there is no question they are trying to get the ball to him, but he is just not getting open. It is really strange; West had a terrific spring game and looked primed for a big year in 2013.

I don't think they moved him to a different WR role (i.e. the slot). Is he just confused by the new plays and terminology? Just doesn't pair well with Hunt or Allen? Maybe he is hurt as well.

I am mystified by what I see on gameday from him.

In fairness to West he did have his man beat down the sidlelines for a possible TD, but Hunt under threw him. He was also open on 2 other occasions I saw, but again were bad passes. But for the most part it looks like they aren't doing anything special against him, just straight man coverage. We looked to be trying to force the ball to him to get him going last Saturday, but they were just too fast and physical for him. Also have to consider that during the Spring Game he had Joe Nassib covering him for the most part. He has shown he can beat up on lesser competition like he did there, and against Wagner/Tulane. He has shown the tendency to disappear for stretches against better competition like last season. We just need to make it count when he is open.

I am more worried at this point about our lack of tight end use. This could be very beneficial to a young quarterback that doesn't have WR's who can consistently get open. Wales has shown he is more then capable as a receiver, he just needs to be targeted. GMC offense seems a bit choppy right now, Wales could be a much needed pressure relief. I'm really curious how were going to use the TE going forward since we seem to be targeting pass catching TE's?

I'd like to see some more Pistol, and use the zone read as a threat. If anything can help get receivers open it would be that. Other then FSU we won't see db's who can go straight man and lock down our wr's for a full game. Using Hunt as a running threat with the zone read could really soften up the secondary. I am really hoping to see some major adjustments this weekend, both offensively, and defensively

 

[GoSU96]

Its not an overreaction, Our two starting WR's are lucky to have 10 total catches between them in 5 games. West has been held without a catch in at least 2 if not 3 games and Kobena has been non existant since the PSU game. Clemsons D is good but lets not pretend its suddenly the 85 Bears, that was a putrid performance. I dont care if Lewis and Cornelius or Avant get PT, we need to change things up.

17 different guys, 18 if you include Hunt, have caught passes this year. They are spreading the ball around. That's part of the reason no single receiver has a lot of catches. Last week was first game in 17 that West hadn't caught a pass, he was only targetted four times last week. Kobena had four catches against NW, 4 against Wagner, and 2 against Tulane. He was great early against Tulane and then they pretty much abandoned throwing the ball after the first quarter.

I didn't say it wasn't bad performance but who they were playing and how the staff used the players had alot to do with it.

It wasn't like they the pass game had been like this all year. They went for 189 agains PSU, 301 against NW, 359 against Wagner, and 200 against Tulane (on only 26 attempts).

I have no problem giving other guys looks, but you are overreacting to one game.

 

[baggerbob]

Again, I don't know why he doesn't play. But if it is because he doesn't work hard in practice, then I wouldn't play him regardless of the production we get. Just my opinion but that precedence can lead to making a bad situation worse.

Their also needs to be a message sent that no matter how well you practice, or know the plays if you don't produce on game day you sit. You can't have your 2 starting receivers both come up with 0 catches in division 1 football.

 

[JeremyCuse]

17 different guys, 18 if you include Hunt, have caught passes this year. They are spreading the ball around. That's part of the reason no single receiver has a lot of catches. Last week was first game in 17 that West hadn't caught a pass, he was only targetted four times last week. Kobena had four catches against NW, 4 against Wagner, and 2 against Tulane. He was great early against Tulane and then they pretty much abandoned throwing the ball after the first quarter.

I didn't say it wasn't bad performance but who they were playing and how the staff used the players had alot to do with it.

It wasn't like they the pass game had been like this all year. They went for 189 agains PSU, 301 against NW, 359 against Wagner, and 200 against Tulane (on only 26 attempts).

I have no problem giving other guys looks, but you are overreacting to one game.

Sorry I was wrong on West, he had 1 catch for four yards against Tulane and two for 38 against NW. Either way he isnt putting up anywhere near what you need for a #1 receiver and its not just him, Kobena and Wales have underperformed and Clark has been hit or miss. The point I am trying to make is against better teams our passing game is overmatched big time. An infusion of talent is desperately needed, why not give Funderburk, Moore, Lewis etc a shot. When you have to use the words off to a great start for Kobena on two catches your Wr's are in trouble.

 

[rrlbees]

Their also needs to be a message sent that no matter how well you practice, or know the plays if you don't produce on game day you sit. You can't have your 2 starting receivers both come up with 0 catches in division 1 football.

While true, it is more likely the bad practice scenario would hold more water with a coach. As to this past 0 catches, I can show you at least 3 passes that West was wide open and the QB missed him.


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[orange79]

You think they ALL practiced hard in college? To take it a step further - do you think Carmelo Anthony practiced hard every day in practice?

Please.

Actually, yes. Yes, I do.

 

[rrlbees]

Actually, yes. Yes, I do.

And you would be correct.


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[MikeSU02]

Coaches knew WR was our weakest position this year. They are trying to figure something out (see Ashton being our leader in receptions).

But our WRs are not talented enough to get open consistently and win 50/50 balls.

West and Wales are great as third/fourth bananas. It's a whole different ballgame when you get the spotlight on you.

Broyld and Estime will have to lead the upgrade this year with West and Clark hopefully making plays here and there.

One of those things that would benefit from Wagner and Tulane being the first two games of the season instead of PSU and NW.

 

[anglerman]

The

Remember when everyone lauded Marrone for instilling discipline? After a couple losses it seems like some folks want to forgo that.

Anyone that has coached high school or college sports realize you do not reward a lack of commitment.

problem
The problem with Doug wasn't the discipline the problem is he was simply a poor recruiter. That's why SU has no good receivers.

 

[rrlbees]

Coaches knew WR was our weakest position this year. They are trying to figure something out (see Ashton being our leader in receptions).

But our WRs are not talented enough to get open consistently and win 50/50 balls.

West and Wales are great as third/fourth bananas. It's a whole different ballgame when you get the spotlight on you.

Broyld and Estime will have to lead the upgrade this year with West and Clark hopefully making plays here and there.

One of those things that would benefit from Wagner and Tulane being the first two games of the season instead of PSU and NW.

Not sure why everyone keeps saying we have to replace someone with Estime. How does anyone know for sure he is the answer? Kind if like everyone was sure Funderburke was the answer.


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[MikeSU02]

Not sure why everyone keeps saying we have to replace someone with Estime. How does anyone know for sure he is the answer? Kind if like everyone was sure Funderburke was the answer.

I'm not pining for Estime to take over full time minutes. All I'm saying is that IF (and I know it's a big if) we want to improve the WR spot, Estime will need to be part of it. He has to get better, get more familiar with the O, etc.

It may not happen, but he would have to be part of it. Estime has earned some PT as a frosh, seems like he is trying harder than Quinta.

But make no mistake, the situation has to change in some capacity. Our WRs, as a group, aren't good enough, period. If we don't get better, we are looking at 4-8.

 

[Crusty]

Just a thought but can we not modify the routes to help some of these guys get open? Rub routes, stack formations etc. Is good play design for good receivers the same as for bad ones?

 

[orangeinohio]

What's the word on Alvin Cornelius? I know he's been on the field in a couple games so far but no receptions (that I'm aware of).

 

[GoSU96]

The

problem
The problem with Doug wasn't the discipline the problem is he was simply a poor recruiter. That's why SU has no good receivers.

I thought that everyone underestimated the talent on the line. You said so yourself a week ago, in fact you took great offense to the notion that Clemson was likely to blow SU out in just the manner they ended up doing.

How did those guys get on the team, did they just show up at the door on their own? Stop with the poor coach/poor recruiter BS. The fact is that it was and is very hard to get top end talent into this program right now. They had to start from scratch.

You want to say that they didn't bring in the level of WR's that they did at other positions, fine, because that's the truth, and Marrone would be the first to admit that they missed on some kids both that they could get to come here and the ones that did, where the level they wanted. But there is alot more to a football team than WR's.

That was a huge frustration, they would get in early and build relationships and then other programs would come over the top, including NJSt. Part of that was the belief that based on the facilities the schools commitment to the program wasn't comparable, and they lost kids because of that very reason.

 

[SUbear]

Again, I don't know why he doesn't play. But if it is because he doesn't work hard in practice, then I wouldn't play him regardless of the production we get. Just my opinion but that precedence can lead to making a bad situation worse.

You do know that Jim Brown was a bad practice player. It did not seem to matter in his case.

 

[phil77]

Not sure why everyone keeps saying we have to replace someone with Estime. How does anyone know for sure he is the answer? Kind if like everyone was sure Funderburke was the answer.

I don't know if Estime or Funderburke are the answers but I know what we are running out there aren't the answer.

 

[TheCusian]

Were not talking somethign subjective like o line play, stats dont lie, our WR's have been awful and thats putting it lightly. At some point you have to see what the backups can offer.

I agree that they've been awful - but they most not think the backups are as good as the guys they have starting, or else they'd be playing.

They're not holding back the better players...

 

[anglerman]

I thought that everyone underestimated the talent on the line. You said so yourself a week ago, in fact you took great offense to the notion that Clemson was likely to blow SU out in just the manner they ended up doing.

How did those guys get on the team, did they just show up at the door on their own? Stop with the poor coach/poor recruiter BS. The fact is that it was and is very hard to get top end talent into this program right now. They had to start from scratch.

You want to say that they didn't bring in the level of WR's that they did at other positions, fine, because that's the truth, and Marrone would be the first to admit that they missed on some kids both that they could get to come here and the ones that did, where the level they wanted. But there is alot more to a football team than WR's.

That was a huge frustration, they would get in early and build relationships and then other programs would come over the top, including NJSt. Part of that was the belief that based on the facilities the schools commitment to the program wasn't comparable, and they lost kids because of that very reason.

Hey I was dead wrong about the Clemson game. Like I said I was on the sideline. During warmups I realized that there was a major talent gap. That was most apparent at the WR position. I realized that Doug hadn't recruited well at that position for his entire 4 years. I never said Doug wasn't a good coach. I think he is. I just think he was a very poor recruiter.