Will be extremely disappointed if there isnt some new blood at WR Saturday

[SWC75]

I find it amazing that Funderburke can't beat out the guys we've seen. It may send a "bad message" to play guys who don't practice hard, (assuming that that's the problem) but what message does it send to continue to play guys who can't get the job done?

 

[SWC75]

Yes -- the difference is that Broyld is always in the slot, and not a true wide-out, and that is fine. It is the best way to use his size.
But Estime is a different story. He might be better as a true wide-out. Why keep him behind Broyld, when the need at wide-out is glaring?

Broyld is basically our tight end.

 

[Entropic]

Maybe someone else has brought this up but if we aren't utilizing our tight end why don't we then just go 4 wide with broyld and estime in the slots and make the other team run with a nickle or dime package? It would create a match up nightmare for the opposing defense and also make Jerome that much better by allowing him to run against a lighter defense. If they stay 4-3 and they defend with lbs and safeties in the slots its still a match up problem. I believe it would also open lanes for Hunt to run, but hey its just me watching from my living room what do I know.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Doug wasn't a poor recruiter, he wasn't great either but He was trying to sell a product that was left behind 10 years ago. Kids don't care that we were good in the late nineties, we also had horrendous facilities probably bottom 2-3 in the BCS, had been losing for 4-5 years and was basically 100% rebuilding. You are also dealing with 17-18 year old kids. GMC is a confirmed world class recruiter lets see how much better the recruiting gets, I believe it will get better but they have to continue to win games and the ipf will help big time. Doug was also dealing with conference uncertainty for 2 years. I think last year would have been his best class. Everything with Marrone was done to build stability and a foundation, unfortunately I believe he left 2-3 years before his work was done.

Again, people need to see other BCS level facilities. I don't think with what has happened to college football the last 15 years ago that Syracuse will ever be a consistent top 20 program again, consistent..., I just don't. Money isn't there or the infastructure

 

[RCDICK44]

Hey Entropic,why are you watching from your living room.I must assume your not a local.

 

[kcsu]

The biggest mysteries to me are West and Wales.

West had 42 catches last season. He can get open against D1 talent. I would have expected him to improve over last season; not regress. What happened?

The same applies to Wales, who had 35 catches last season.

With Wales, I see little to indicate the staff is even trying to get him the ball. Those short crossing patterns over the middle that were his bread and butter seem to be missing from this scheme. But we should keep in mind that Wales appeared to be hurt, and I think he has been hurt all season. Right now, I think he is a shadow of his normal self. Hope he gets better soon; it not only affects our passing game but our running game; he has evolved into a fine blocking TE as well.

With West, there is no question they are trying to get the ball to him, but he is just not getting open. It is really strange; West had a terrific spring game and looked primed for a big year in 2013.

I don't think they moved him to a different WR role (i.e. the slot). Is he just confused by the new plays and terminology? Just doesn't pair well with Hunt or Allen? Maybe he is hurt as well.

I am mystified by what I see on gameday from him.

West had a good spring game against our DB group

 

[upperdeck]

we play the TE because we need someone who can block.

 

[qdawgg]

Hey I was dead wrong about the Clemson game. Like I said I was on the sideline. During warmups I realized that there was a major talent gap. That was most apparent at the WR position. I realized that Doug hadn't recruited well at that position for his entire 4 years. I never said Doug wasn't a good coach. I think he is. I just think he was a very poor recruiter.

I don't think he was a poor recruiter but as IB said above, he wasn't a great recruiter but the situation to recruit in wasn't optimal to bring in talent. We now have GM who is one of the better recruiters in the country and you still don't see 5* star talent coming in. That's with improved facilities, plans in the works, coming off a bowl win, and a couple guys drafted by the Giants.

 

[qdawgg]

I've never quite understand the knee jerk reaction that when the players at a certain position aren't performing the way we want or expected, it's assumed there are guys sitting the bench that would perform better. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. There are always situations where you might have a talented player that isn't on the field for whatever reason, we've seen our fair share the last couple of years; Broyld and Sales. But people sometimes act as if there is a whole group standing on the sidelines that can perform at a much higher level than the guys on the field. When people say, "how could the guys on the bench be any worse than the ones playing". That statement just shows a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to even get on the field at the D1 level.

We can probably all remember when we were all little kids, playing football. There would be 20 kids and if you were the captain, it was pretty easy to pick the first 2 - 3 kids. After that the talent dropped considerably. The 4th kid could catch the ball but was never open, the other kid was fast but couldn't catch, another kid was fast and could catch but you never knew where the hell he was running too. The kids on the SU bench are sitting there for similar reasons, they might seem to potentially have some talent but they still lack important skills we don't know because we don't see them every single day.

 

[SWC75]

I've never quite understand the knee jerk reaction that when the players at a certain position aren't performing the way we want or expected, it's assumed there are guys sitting the bench that would perform better. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. There are always situations where you might have a talented player that isn't on the field for whatever reason, we've seen our fair share the last couple of years; Broyld and Sales. But people sometimes act as if there is a whole group standing on the sidelines that can perform at a much higher level than the guys on the field. When people say, "how could the guys on the bench be any worse than the ones playing". That statement just shows a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to even get on the field at the D1 level.

We can probably all remember when we were all little kids, playing football. There would be 20 kids and if you were the captain, it was pretty easy to pick the first 2 - 3 kids. After that the talent dropped considerably. The 4th kid could catch the ball but was never open, the other kid was fast but couldn't catch, another kid was fast and could catch but you never knew where the hell he was running too. The kids on the SU bench are sitting there for similar reasons, they might seem to potentially have some talent but they still lack important skills we don't know because we don't see them every single day.

But our wide-outs wouldn't be among those first 2-3 kids, either.

 

[anomander]

Doug wasn't a poor recruiter, he wasn't great either but He was trying to sell a product that was left behind 10 years ago. Kids don't care that we were good in the late nineties, we also had horrendous facilities probably bottom 2-3 in the BCS, had been losing for 4-5 years and was basically 100% rebuilding. You are also dealing with 17-18 year old kids. GMC is a confirmed world class recruiter lets see how much better the recruiting gets, I believe it will get better but they have to continue to win games and the ipf will help big time. Doug was also dealing with conference uncertainty for 2 years. I think last year would have been his best class. Everything with Marrone was done to build stability and a foundation, unfortunately I believe he left 2-3 years before his work was done.

Again, people need to see other BCS level facilities. I don't think with what has happened to college football the last 15 years ago that Syracuse will ever be a consistent top 20 program again, consistent..., I just don't. Money isn't there or the infastructure

I think Doug was a better recruiter then people are giving him credit for. He came in and started from scratch. All the relationships he was building were only in year 4, and only coming off 1 winning season at the time. He was planting our roots in NY, GA, and FLA. Many criticized him for never getting the #1 guy in NY, but we got everyone else we wanted, and we were building towards getting the top guy. Last year before he left we easily had the best recruiting class of his 4 years, and was much better then what we ended up with. I also felt his players evaluations were second to none. He hit several home runs on lightly recruited kids. With the facilities upgrade just completed, and now the IPF, to go along with another bowl win I was really expecting his recruiting classes to get better and better. Personally I loved Marrone's recruiting blueprint. I think it was a plan we were going to win with, and win big. He realized there are players in our own backyard who although don't get the national recognition due to lack of coverage, they still were ACC quality. This years team has talent, but I don't think we are playing to it's strengths. These kids were recruited for a different style. Let's just hope this staff has a plan

 

[SWC75]

Doug wasn't a poor recruiter, he wasn't great either but He was trying to sell a product that was left behind 10 years ago. Kids don't care that we were good in the late nineties, we also had horrendous facilities probably bottom 2-3 in the BCS, had been losing for 4-5 years and was basically 100% rebuilding. You are also dealing with 17-18 year old kids. GMC is a confirmed world class recruiter lets see how much better the recruiting gets, I believe it will get better but they have to continue to win games and the ipf will help big time. Doug was also dealing with conference uncertainty for 2 years. I think last year would have been his best class. Everything with Marrone was done to build stability and a foundation, unfortunately I believe he left 2-3 years before his work was done.

Again, people need to see other BCS level facilities. I don't think with what has happened to college football the last 15 years ago that Syracuse will ever be a consistent top 20 program again, consistent..., I just don't. Money isn't there or the infastructure

We were "bottom 2-3 in the BCS"? And didn't Dr. Gross say that what we have now is better than what they had at USC?

 

[anomander]

We were "bottom 2-3 in the BCS"? And didn't Dr. Gross say that what we have now is better than what they had at USC?

ya our facilities aren't that bad. After the IPF is completed we will be middle of the pack ACC. There could be some small, inexpensive changes that could be made to improve them, but they are no where near the bottom of bcs

 

[OttoMets]

I've never quite understand the knee jerk reaction that when the players at a certain position aren't performing the way we want or expected, it's assumed there are guys sitting the bench that would perform better. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. There are always situations where you might have a talented player that isn't on the field for whatever reason, we've seen our fair share the last couple of years; Broyld and Sales. But people sometimes act as if there is a whole group standing on the sidelines that can perform at a much higher level than the guys on the field. When people say, "how could the guys on the bench be any worse than the ones playing". That statement just shows a complete lack of understanding of what it takes to even get on the field at the D1 level.

We can probably all remember when we were all little kids, playing football. There would be 20 kids and if you were the captain, it was pretty easy to pick the first 2 - 3 kids. After that the talent dropped considerably. The 4th kid could catch the ball but was never open, the other kid was fast but couldn't catch, another kid was fast and could catch but you never knew where the hell he was running too. The kids on the SU bench are sitting there for similar reasons, they might seem to potentially have some talent but they still lack important skills we don't know because we don't see them every single day.

Agree with a lot of this.

Still, from what little I've seen of Funderburke, he'd be among my first two choices if I were captain. Have no idea why he's not out there.

As an aside, I've never understood the love for Wales (though he hasn't had a chance in McDonald's limited offense). Too many drops and dumb penalties over the years.

 

[OttoMets]

I think Doug was a better recruiter then people are giving him credit for. He came in and started from scratch. All the relationships he was building were only in year 4, and only coming off 1 winning season at the time. He was planting our roots in NY, GA, and FLA. Many criticized him for never getting the #1 guy in NY, but we got everyone else we wanted, and we were building towards getting the top guy. Last year before he left we easily had the best recruiting class of his 4 years, and was much better then what we ended up with. I also felt his players evaluations were second to none. He hit several home runs on lightly recruited kids. With the facilities upgrade just completed, and now the IPF, to go along with another bowl win I was really expecting his recruiting classes to get better and better. Personally I loved Marrone's recruiting blueprint. I think it was a plan we were going to win with, and win big. He realized there are players in our own backyard who although don't get the national recognition due to lack of coverage, they still were ACC quality. This years team has talent, but I don't think we are playing to it's strengths. These kids were recruited for a different style. Let's just hope this staff has a plan

Yes! Especially this.

 

[Entropic]

Hey Entropic,why are you watching from your living room.I must assume your not a local.

I'm in Richmond, VA.

 

[GoSU96]

We were "bottom 2-3 in the BCS"? And didn't Dr. Gross say that what we have now is better than what they had at USC?

When Marrone showed up, absolutely. You want to dispute that?

As for Gross at USC, that was almost 10 years ago at this point, and he's been known to spin things a little bit every once in a while. But even taken at face value SU has not caught up to what was state of the art 10 years ago. That sounds about right.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not sure how to phrase the following idea - the talent at WR is a problem, but the bigger problem to me is that it doesn't seem like steps were being taken to improve the talent there through recruiting. I recall Cornelius being told that he would be the only WR taken in his class (he wasn't, Parker came in too).

Did the previous staff not see the issues coming with the WR unit? It just seems bizarre that there wasn't a bigger effort to get more talent in at the position.

I'm guessing McDonald got here, saw what he would be working with, and immediately thought "Oh crap, I'm not going to be able to do anything I like to do."

 

[anomander]

I'm not sure how to phrase the following idea - the talent at WR is a problem, but the bigger problem to me is that it doesn't seem like steps were being taken to improve the talent there through recruiting. I recall Cornelius being told that he would be the only WR taken in his class (he wasn't, Parker came in too).

Did the previous staff not see the issues coming with the WR unit? It just seems bizarre that there wasn't a bigger effort to get more talent in at the position.

I'm guessing McDonald got here, saw what he would be working with, and immediately thought "Oh crap, I'm not going to be able to do anything I like to do."

You also have to think about Kyle Foster who transferred, some were high on him. Add Funderburke to the list who seemingly the prior staff was very high on, and Flemming who got hurt again. Throw those 3 in, with Lewis, and AC, who are RS FR recruited by HCDM, and you can see why they thought they could have been ok. 2 totally different schemes. It's not like Lemon, and Sales blew you away with crazy talent, but they were used to their strengths (and helped with an NFL QB)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You also have to think about Kyle Foster who transferred, some were high on him. Add Funderburke to the list who seemingly the prior staff was very high on, and Flemming who got hurt again. Throw those 3 in, with Lewis, and AC, who are RS FR recruited by HCDM, and you can see why they thought they could have been ok. 2 totally different schemes. It's not like Lemon, and Sales blew you away with crazy talent, but they were used to their strengths (and helped with an NFL QB)

I thought Foster was an injury casualty? Funderburke's situation (highly rated recruit transferring out of an SEC program) isn't really something that you can bank on. Flemming... meh, I've never seen what others have believed they've seen from him.

I don't know. Are the things we ask our WRs to do now so dramatically different from what we were asking of them before?

 

[anomander]

I thought Foster was an injury casualty? Funderburke's situation (highly rated recruit transferring out of an SEC program) isn't really something that you can bank on. Flemming... meh, I've never seen what others have believed they've seen from him.

I don't know. Are the things we ask our WRs to do now so dramatically different from what we were asking of them before?

I was just basing Funderburke off of Marrone's comments he made about him last season

 

[qdawgg]

But our wide-outs wouldn't be among those first 2-3 kids, either.

Not quite sure what that has to do with what I was saying?

 

[SWC75]

When Marrone showed up, absolutely. You want to dispute that?

As for Gross at USC, that was almost 10 years ago at this point, and he's been known to spin things a little bit every once in a while. But even taken at face value SU has not caught up to what was state of the art 10 years ago. That sounds about right.

When Marrone showed up was 2009. The changes were well underway by then. And even before that I thought we were probably int he bottom half of the conference, not the bottom 2-3 in the BCS. But then I don't think there's anyone where who is really in a postion to evaluate that. The only comparisons were to schools whose recent upgrades were getting a lot of publicity. What are thye like at Kansas, Indiana, California, Mississippi State? Who knows?

 

[SWC75]

Not quite sure what that has to do with what I was saying?

You were saying that there's a drop off after the first 2-3 and that our reserves must be part of that drop off. But our guys are playing as if they were part of the drop off.

 

[qdawgg]

You were saying that there's a drop off after the first 2-3 and that our reserves must be part of that drop off. But our guys are playing as if they were part of the drop off.

I knew what you meant. My argument wasn't about the quality of our WR corp, which I agree isn't good. Just that it doesn't mean there is better depth behind it.