WWE Thread

[cuseinseattle]

Jericho and Bret Hart are my two all time favorites.

I was watching WCW way more than WWF at the time when Jericho really made his name in 98. I thought he was absolutely hilarious and a good wrestler. When he came to WWF in ‘99 it was a situation where I wasn’t really watching much on my own anymore but most of my friends were, so I caught his act on a lot of Monday nights by accident...and still thought he was hilarious.

I got back into watching wrestling right around the time he came back in 07-08 and really got into his angle with Michaels. Maybe the best angle ever. He pretty much single handidly kept me watching/following numerous times since then.

One of my favorite RAW moments of all time and I think it was 99 is when Jericho beat HHH for the title on raw and Earl Hebner did the quick count and then they ended up giving the title back to HHH. It was at a college in the NE (I think Penn State) and the crowd was jacked. Jericho was great and convinced HHH to do the match and then hired the APA. It was amazing.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Definitely top 5 pop ever.

I have the WWE network and go back and watch the height of Austin and the pops he would get and I forgot how crazy they were.

 

[Symphony Steve]

The way I have understood it is that Vince is really the head and HHH is actually the guy he most closely listens to. I don't think Stephanie is really the one driving the creative train but I could be wrong.

She is not involved with creative at all any more. Although I imagine she has input on her own character.

 

[MSOrange]

Welcome to Monday Night Jericho!! He was always so good on the mic.

I'm not a big mic guy - would rather get to the action. But Jericho is right up there with the Rock as a must see promo.

 

[Knicks411]

She is not involved with creative at all any more. Although I imagine she has input on her own character.

Also, the way Meltzer always talks about it is even if she doesn't have direct input, Vince is the guy in charge, so the creative team knows he'll like if they pitch angles where she comes off strong

 

[cuseinseattle]

Also, the way Meltzer always talks about it is even if she doesn't have direct input, Vince is the guy in charge, so the creative team knows he'll like if they pitch angles where she comes off strong

It’s always been that way. I remember Stone Cold on his pod asking Vince about taker losing at WM and did taker want to do it. Vince said he was willing no one loves this business more than taker but it was my decision like every decision is mine

 

[Alsacs]

Vince has handed keys over.
He didn’t handle the negotiations over the last TV deal.
Stephaine and HHH hired IMG to negotiate and Vince stayed out of it.
He is giving up responsibility.

 

[Knicks411]

Vince has handed keys over.
He didn’t handle the negotiations over the last TV deal.
Stephaine and HHH hired IMG to negotiate and Vince stayed out of it.
He is giving up responsibility.

Business wise yes (it's probably important to show there are people behind him since he's so old), but I believe he still pretty much drives creative.

 

[Symphony Steve]

He still drives creative to the point that he's on the headphones feeding lines to the TV announcers during Raw. He decides all the key finishes, the storylines, and the long-term directions. The creative direction, or lack of direction, is, IMHO, the Achilles heel of the company.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He still drives creative to the point that he's on the headphones feeding lines to the TV announcers during Raw. He decides all the key finishes, the storylines, and the long-term directions. The creative direction, or lack of direction, is, IMHO, the Achilles heel of the company.

Does he really feed them lines during broadcasts? Talk about micromanaging. Dude is like Jerry Jones. Be confident in the leaders you put in place.

 

[Alsacs]

Does he really feed them lines during broadcasts? Talk about micromanaging. Dude is like Jerry Jones. Be confident in the leaders you put in place.

Vince McMahon is Donald Trump. They are loud, obnoxious out of touch leaders who have cult of fans. However they are thin skinned and loyal to people to loyal to them but you attack them they go scorthed earth on you. Only difference is Vince has stayed with Linda while Trump gets a new wife each decade.

 

[Alsacs]

I just read this week’s Raw report.
WTH is Vince doing.
I seriously just don't understand Vince. I really don't. You spend 2018 having your creative writers building Braun Strowman up to be the next big thing your next big babyface. THEN, you decide to nix all of that and turn him heel against a babyface that majority of fans don't even love. You even had Strowman team with a kid at Wrestlemania for goodness sake.
Good god that is so stupid.

Also I read the Smackdown report and their is a total Stone Cold Steve Austin vibe with Becky Lynch and that actually is appealing. However knowing Vince he will just have Becky and Charlotte go to therapy and repair their friendship and stop her heel face run.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Does he really feed them lines during broadcasts? Talk about micromanaging. Dude is like Jerry Jones. Be confident in the leaders you put in place.

That is something that is part of the way theydo it. There was a period of time when JR fed lines to
Cole from the back. Vince started as the commentator and did it until Montreal. That was his start with his dad

 

[cuseinseattle]

I was listening to Melzer talk about how Hogan refused to put Bret Hart over and he said I’ll lose the title to Yokozuna but I won’t lose to a midget. Which is why they hate each other.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Hell in a Cell tonight

Rollins/Ambrose vs Ziggler/Drew was one of the best matches Ive seen in a while

 

[OrangeDW]

I was listening to Melzer talk about how Hogan refused to put Bret Hart over and he said I’ll lose the title to Yokozuna but I won’t lose to a midget. Which is why they hate each other.

Yeah, I’ve heard that before and that’s garbage if true. Hogan was stuck in the 80’s, mentality wise. WWF was moving towards having actual realistic looking wrestlers as champ, not roided up stiffs or big, fat guys.

Hogan - Bret at summerslam could’ve been epic.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Yeah, I’ve heard that before and that’s garbage if true. Hogan was stuck in the 80’s, mentality wise. WWF was moving towards having actual realistic looking wrestlers as champ, not roided up stiffs or big, fat guys.

Hogan - Bret at summerslam could’ve been epic.

It makes Hogan look really bad now but the reality is that Hogan wasn't stuck in the past that is the way things were still and Vince was trying to change things. Meltzer even points that out. The reality is this probably helped Bret a lot. I saw an interview where Nash said that Bret where there guy in the locker room and Hogan was leaving we thought and he wouldn't do the job. Everyone was really mad about it and behind Bret. So the fact the cliq was even with Bret probably helped.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Yeah, I’ve heard that before and that’s garbage if true. Hogan was stuck in the 80’s, mentality wise. WWF was moving towards having actual realistic looking wrestlers as champ, not roided up stiffs or big, fat guys.

Hogan - Bret at summerslam could’ve been epic.

Regarding Hogan vs Bret it wouldn't have been epic in my opinion. Maybe it would be looked back on fondly from a historically perspective but as a match Hogan would have screwed it up. Everyone one of his matches are the same and they all suck in my opinion. Then again I'm biased and hate him.

 

[Alsacs]

Both Warrior and Hogan refused to do jobs in the 1980s and 90s.
They would only lose due to interference.
Hogan went around Hart and stole the belt from WM9.

 

[BuffOrange]

Not to say Hogan & HBK weren't enormous D'bags because they were. But I think a lot of the Bret criticism of being a huge mark for himself is also fair. He's always putting himself over as an unselfish worker who worked his way up from nothing but when I actually watch his old stuff he's no jobber. Even as a midcard heel vs a top face like Savage he's losing by either DQ or a fluke roll-up and then killing him after the match he's not getting pinned by the elbow and then just letting his music play.

 

[Shawn91111]

Not to say Hogan & HBK weren't enormous D'bags because they were. But I think a lot of the Bret criticism of being a huge mark for himself is also fair. He's always putting himself over as an unselfish worker who worked his way up from nothing but when I actually watch his old stuff he's no jobber. Even as a midcard heel vs a top face like Savage he's losing by either DQ or a fluke roll-up and then killing him after the match he's not getting pinned by the elbow and then just letting his music play.

He was part of a heel tag team then, it was pretty natural to have the top heel tag team do a DQ or run in or something that involved their partner and or manager. Also, what kind of stroke did Hart have at that point in the late 80's? He was starting his singles climb in 88' doing some singles matches while still tagging, and went the longest in the inaugural Royal Rumble, which is usually reserved for guys on the up. Also not saying Bret didn't take himself too seriously, because he did, and his interviews have always reflected his bitterness.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Why is roman reigns the champion?

 

[cuseinseattle]

Not to say Hogan & HBK weren't enormous D'bags because they were. But I think a lot of the Bret criticism of being a huge mark for himself is also fair. He's always putting himself over as an unselfish worker who worked his way up from nothing but when I actually watch his old stuff he's no jobber. Even as a midcard heel vs a top face like Savage he's losing by either DQ or a fluke roll-up and then killing him after the match he's not getting pinned by the elbow and then just letting his music play.

Hitman was a total mark. He also wouldn't job for people when asked. When Nash was having his program with Taker they wanted to have Nash power bomb Bret when he had the title and then have Taker interfere to cost Nash the title which would have really helped their program. Bret refused and they did a run in DQ with multiple people.

 

[Alsacs]

Hitman was a total mark. He also wouldn't job for people when asked. When Nash was having his program with Taker they wanted to have Nash power bomb Bret when he had the title and then have Taker interfere to cost Nash the title which would have really helped their program. Bret refused and they did a run in DQ with multiple people.

Nash was on his way out.
Also Hart totally did jobs. The guy worked his way up the ladder without stabbing anyone in the back.
He also treated his fellow guys with respect.
Nash/Hall/HBK were the problem people. The Cliq were jerks.
Taker respected Hart.

 

[OrangeDW]

I’m basically good with whatever Hitman says at this point. Some people seem to get so worked up about anything he says. Guy gives his opinion and he’s “miserable”, “bitter”, etc. I take it more as him being a straight shooter. He’s pretty biased against HHH which I find funny, but otherwise I don’t think he’s unfair in his comments.

And honestly he’s got a right to speak out against what happened to him towards the end of his career.