WWE Thread

[jncuse]

Crowd was insanely loud last night. When Montreal crowds get going for an ovation in any sport (be it hockey, baseball (with a decent crowd), wrestling) they can't be beat. Hogan in 2002 on the RAW after WM18 got a 10 minute+ ovation in Montreal, but this one was probably more intense.

I heard on the US Fox version they blacked out crows / did not have noise on the "**** you Roman" chants - because I heard them pretty darn well on Canadian feed last night.

 

[jncuse]

My guess is Jay Uso gets involved tonight, but its unclear at the time as to whether he was trying to help Sami or Roman. I think they play out the Jay - Sami relationship a little longer over the next 6 weeks before WM.

I can't in any way envision a "Clean" or clear victory for Roman - has to feel that Sami got screwed somehow, so they can play with things longer term after this.

Obviously has to be a moment though where Roman-Solo (and maybe Jey) beat up Sami post match, so Kevin Owens come to his aide.

I have heard some speculate that Owens will turn - but that's way too much a swerve. And the bloodline angle has never been about quick swerves -- everything has moved slowly and be traced back to various things. The foundation of the bloodline was when Jay Uso faced Roman in some really good matches in late 2020 I think..

 

[jncuse]

Current outside the ring feud is Ariel Helwani (reputable combat journalist from SU 2004) & Tony Khan. They had an awkward interview several months back where Khan basically refused to answer anything of substance. Ariel may or may not have been right to comment about it afterward.

Last night Helwani was at Smackdown and did a few things for the WWE on its broadcast. Tony Khan then tweeted that Ariel is a fraud and unprofessional for going on Smackdown. Ariel went ahead and called him a snowman - make what you will about the "snow" reference/

Personally I don't think Ariel Helwani did anything unprofessional or representative of a "Fraud" journalist last night. He is from Montreal - Montrealers are proud of their history. He did a piece on Montreal's WWE past and wrestling history (WWF related) - nothing wrong with that.

And then having hanging out in the crowd enjoying this and broadcasting this epic Montreal wrestling moment was nowhere near unprofessional. Tony Khan has done a good job overall with AEW, but in this case he just needs to shut up.

 

[cusefan88]

This is an excellent PPV so far.

 

[Knicks411]

Current outside the ring feud is Ariel Helwani (reputable combat journalist from SU 2004) & Tony Khan. They had an awkward interview several months back where Khan basically refused to answer anything of substance. Ariel may or may not have been right to comment about it afterward.

Last night Helwani was at Smackdown and did a few things for the WWE on its broadcast. Tony Khan then tweeted that Ariel is a fraud and unprofessional for going on Smackdown. Ariel went ahead and called him a snowman - make what you will about the "snow" reference/

Personally I don't think Ariel Helwani did anything unprofessional or representative of a "Fraud" journalist last night. He is from Montreal - Montrealers are proud of their history. He did a piece on Montreal's WWE past and wrestling history (WWF related) - nothing wrong with that.

And then having hanging out in the crowd enjoying this and broadcasting this epic Montreal wrestling moment was nowhere near unprofessional. Tony Khan has done a good job overall with AEW, but in this case he just needs to shut up.

I don't know if fraud is the right word but he's covering wrestling and taking a paycheck from WWE. It's a little...ethically curious I guess?

Show was very good. Main event was great. I kinda think Sami should've won, but you know how that goes.

 

[cusefan88]

I don't know if fraud is the right word but he's covering wrestling and taking a paycheck from WWE. It's a little...ethically curious I guess?

Show was very good. Main event was great. I kinda think Sami should've won, but you know how that goes.

I agree but Roman being champion so long means he can only drop at WrestleMania.

 

[Knicks411]

I agree but Roman being champion so long means he can only drop at WrestleMania.

Yeah I kinda agree with that too. Booked themselves into a bit of a corner

 

[ScrabbCuse]

The problem WWE faces now is that they didn’t expect Sami Zayn to be the most over character on their roster heading into WrestleMania. Once the Rock declined to participate, they had this Cody vs Roman mega face - mega heel match in their heads for a while. But we have a Kofi Kingston like situation now where the fans want this one guy to be the guy.

Cody wants to stay a face from what I hear but he’ll start getting the Roman face treatment soon after Mania. Honestly, I think they should have Sami do some big gauntlet match over the next few weeks so he can earn a spot with Roman and Cody to make it a triple threat. Have all sort of shenanigans happen during the match but eventually end it with Sami and Cody both pinning Roman at the same time. They both celebrate together to massive pops. Cody takes the WWE title that eluded his father. Sami takes the Universal title to his respective show.

Or we can watch Sami go for the Tag Team belts which have been mired in mediocrity and irrelevancy for years.

 

[Symphony Steve]

The problem WWE faces now is that they didn’t expect Sami Zayn to be the most over character on their roster heading into WrestleMania. Once the Rock declined to participate, they had this Cody vs Roman mega face - mega heel match in their heads for a while. But we have a Kofi Kingston like situation now where the fans want this one guy to be the guy.

Cody wants to stay a face from what I hear but he’ll start getting the Roman face treatment soon after Mania. Honestly, I think they should have Sami do some big gauntlet match over the next few weeks so he can earn a spot with Roman and Cody to make it a triple threat. Have all sort of shenanigans happen during the match but eventually end it with Sami and Cody both pinning Roman at the same time. They both celebrate together to massive pops. Cody takes the WWE title that eluded his father. Sami takes the Universal title to his respective show.

Or we can watch Sami go for the Tag Team belts which have been mired in mediocrity and irrelevancy for years.

That's a great storyline. Word has been that they want to bring back two champions--one for each brand.

Roman has already cut back his schedule and is talking Hollywood.

I think you'd better copyright this idea lest WWE steal it from you.

 

[cusefan88]

They were one show early. Have Sami turn face last night in Montreal to big pops and then win at Mania.

 

[OrangeDW]

They should’ve pulled the trigger. They’ll never get this opportunity again.

They haven’t been able to create a star since the Shield….the crowd does it for them, and WWE is like “no thanks”.

Cody will never inspire the reaction that Sami did in the last few months and last night.

 

[jncuse]

I'll give the show last night a solid A-/B+ It was entertaining.

Crowd was an A+. It wasn't just during the main event either. There had to be some concern that the crowd would be so hyped for the main, that they might be a bit restless early. But that was not the case. It enhanced everyhing.

Starting from worst to best

Bobby / Brock - These high impact quick physical matchups are what they are. Not terrible, but often not memorable. Glad they are no longer matches in the title picture. The finish of the match though was terrible -- and that resulted in this match being a C-.

Ladies Chamber Match & Edge/Beth match - Both fine matches, but nothing overly great either. A few poorly executed spots in the Edge match.

Men's Chamber Match - Very good match. Good spots, should elevate Bronson Reed and Montez Ford who both had memorable moments. Set up Seth / Logan Paul which I am fine with - glad they have finally went full heel with Logan.

Reigns / Zayn - Great match. Let's take if it was the right ending out of it.
The match certainly started slowly - the quality of wrestling itself may lack for a certain segment. But it also shows that a great storyline, intense crowd, proper heel/face, building intensity can make a for some highly entertaining wrestling. Jey's interaction was good. Kevin Owens involvement was disappointing. Deflating ending at the end, even if it was expected, not sure if there was a way to avoid this and have Zayn lose -- not sure why they didn't at least give fans a Zayn/Owens moment at the end. Don't need to extend that -- they extended Jey's role which was fine enough.

 

[Symphony Steve]

I'll give the show last night a solid A-/B+ It was entertaining.

Crowd was an A+. It wasn't just during the main event either. There had to be some concern that the crowd would be so hyped for the main, that they might be a bit restless early. But that was not the case. It enhanced everyhing.

Starting from worst to best

Bobby / Brock - These high impact quick physical matchups are what they are. Not terrible, but often not memorable. Glad they are no longer matches in the title picture.

Ladies Chamber Match & Edge/Beth match - Both fine matches, but nothing overly great either. A few poorly executed spots in the Edge match.

Men's Chamber Match - Very good match. Good spots, should elevate Bronson Reed and Montez Ford who both had memorable moments. Set up Seth / Logan Paul which I am fine with - glad they have finally went full heel with Logan.

Reigns / Zayn - Great match. Let's take if it was the right ending out of it.
The match certainly started slowly - the quality of wrestling itself may lack for a certain segment. But it also shows that a great storyline, intense crowd, proper heel/face, building intensity can make a for some highly entertaining wrestling. Jey's interaction was good. Kevin Owens involvement was disappointing. Deflating ending at the end, even if it was expected, not sure if there was a way to avoid this and have Zayn lose -- not sure why they didn't at least give fans a Zayn/Owens moment at the end. Don't need to extend that -- they extended Jey's role which was fine enough.

You only get one chance to make a moment that will never be forgotten. Sami winning in Montreal was that moment. It didn't happen. Even if he wins the belt down the line, the moment won't possibly match what could have happened.

Big lost opportunity.

 

[jncuse]

You only get one chance to make a moment that will never be forgotten. Sami winning in Montreal was that moment. It didn't happen. Even if he wins the belt down the line, the moment won't possibly match what could have happened.

Big lost opportunity.

I have made my points on this in a few posts before so won't repeat much of those "Big Moment" vs "Big Picture" posts, although they have tilted more in favour of last night was the night to do it, and the risks are probably higher. But I still think they can still find a pretty big payoff in the end if done properly - but nothing will be as great, easy again as last night, and that poses a risk.

I don't know if anyone else saw the press conferences afterward but you could tell Sami was deflated -- just said he felt strange many times. Compared his moment to George St Pierre -- had the big fights in Montreal, electrified the city like last night, but St. Pierre won.

I still think much of the problem could have been solved with de-unifying the belts earlier. Back in October we could see a ground swell for Sami that had not been seen, and could also see a positive reaction for Cody coming. Plus you had the Rock factor as a possibility at the time. Why they didn't find a way to de-unify the titles a few months ago to create flexibility blows my mind - probably too late now to come up with something that makes sense.

Listening a lot to John Pollock of the Post recently. On Monday, after the RAW show, he said he was fine with the WWE approach of going with Cody - the TV analytics and the house show analytics have shown he has made a big impact so he was fine with Cody being given the spot, and figuring out some other path for Sami. But after the last few nights, using the "Big Moment - Big Picture" theory, he thought they had just intersected this weekend and it was probably the time to do it.

 

[Symphony Steve]

I have made my points on this in a few posts before so won't repeat much of those "Big Moment" vs "Big Picture" posts, although they have tilted more in favour of last night was the night to do it, and the risks are probably higher.

I don't know if anyone else saw the press conferences afterward but you could tell Sami was deflated -- just said he felt strange many times. Compared his moment to George St Pierre -- had the big fights in Montreal, electrified the city like last night, but St. Pierre won.

I still think much of the problem could have been solved with de-unifying the belts earlier. Back in October we could see a ground swell for Sami that had not been seen, and could also see a positive reaction for Cody. Plus you had the Rock factor as a possibility at the time. Why they didn't find a way to de-unify the titles a few months ago blows my mind - probably too late now to come up with something that makes sense.


Listening a lot to John Pollock of the Post recently. On Monday, after the RAW show, he said he was fine with the WWE approach of going with Cody - the TV analytics and the house show analytics have shown he has made a big impact so he was fine with Cody being given the spot, and figuring out some other path for Sami. But after last night, using the "Big Moment - Big Picture" theory, he thought they had just met this weekend and it was probably the time to do it.

At the end of the day I think last night was probably the best night -- but by not pulling it I hope this results in more quantity of good TV in the next 365, even though there is not that high.

Interesting point, one that I think underscores their Cody issue. WWE knows that the fans can, and have, turned on Cody in the past. So, Sami vs. Cody wouldn't have their heel/face dynamic. Problem is, barring a Sami heel turn, which nobody wants, Zayn wouldn't even be a title challenger to Cody post-WM.

While Cody will be a good corporate face as champion, I don't think he'll have the staying power or the fan intensity you'd want in a long-term title holder. Don't forget why they're giving him the title: Because they got him back from AEW.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Haven't heard this mentioned anywhere, however, is it possible that Sami Zayn's refusal to go to Saudi Arabia may have influenced the decision? That Saudi Sports Authority is clearly trying to buy WWE to continue its efforts at sportswashing. So, even were Hunter to be inclined to call an audible, Vince and Nick Kahn would likely caution against it. Just an idle thought.

 

[Knicks411]

Haven't heard this mentioned anywhere, however, is it possible that Sami Zayn's refusal to go to Saudi Arabia may have influenced the decision? That Saudi Sports Authority is clearly trying to buy WWE to continue its efforts at sportswashing. So, even were Hunter to be inclined to call an audible, Vince and Nick Kahn would likely caution against it. Just an idle thought.

I've seen that bandied about. I really don't think so. I just don't think they see Sami in that spot as that guy.

 

[jncuse]

Haven't heard this mentioned anywhere, however, is it possible that Sami Zayn's refusal to go to Saudi Arabia may have influenced the decision? That Saudi Sports Authority is clearly trying to buy WWE to continue its efforts at sportswashing. So, even were Hunter to be inclined to call an audible, Vince and Nick Kahn would likely caution against it. Just an idle thought.

Anything is possible but that would seem improbable. Even if that was something the Saudi's were concerned. A corporate acquisition typically takes anywhere from 1 to 6 months to close after the initial offer is accepted (the WWE's will probably go relatively quick since the voting shares are majority dominated). They would have time to remove Sami as a champion before the deal is closed.

That being said I think there are 2 acquisition related things that may go against Sami being the champion right now

- For any potential less vile acquirers Sami may not fit the imagine they want as a champion.

- More of a pro Sami point, but WWE may feel he drives more TV ratings continuing to chase the title right now. Fans may be more concerned about hitting home runs / big moments at big events like last night, but the TV deals are just as big if not a bigger source of revenue. Keeping those ratings up is necessary. WWE might think they can run with various bloodline iterations for a while longer. We don't know what the WWE has planned - perhaps they have a really good strategy here. If it is their plan, they better have a good one, because fans were deflated after last night.

 

[jordville]

Overall, Elimination Chmaber was a good show.. and some good posts/points have already been made about it.

One I didn't see made here yet... in the mixed tag match, it looked like Beth missed her mark to save Edge from being pinned by Finn. In doing so, the ref clearly stopped the 3 count because of it. Did anyone else catch that? I wonder if they'll run that angle going forward. Edge/Finn will likely be a match going forward.. maybe ay Mania. Heel Balor has been fun. I'd like to see a Demon Balor under one of his masks and unveiled with a Judgement Day paint scheme.

 

[OrangeDW]

Overall, Elimination Chmaber was a good show.. and some good posts/points have already been made about it.

One I didn't see made here yet... in the mixed tag match, it looked like Beth missed her mark to save Edge from being pinned by Finn. In doing so, the ref clearly stopped the 3 count because of it. Did anyone else catch that? I wonder if they'll run that angle going forward. Edge/Finn will likely be a match going forward.. maybe ay Mania. Heel Balor has been fun. I'd like to see a Demon Balor under one of his masks and unveiled with a Judgement Day paint scheme.

Yup, definitely saw that. It kinda took me out of it - it even made sense for the match to end at that brass knuckles spot. Though a lot of cool stuff did happen after, and I guess Edge’s team kinda needed to win. But that was a pretty big botch.

 

[cusefan88]

Overall, Elimination Chmaber was a good show.. and some good posts/points have already been made about it.

One I didn't see made here yet... in the mixed tag match, it looked like Beth missed her mark to save Edge from being pinned by Finn. In doing so, the ref clearly stopped the 3 count because of it. Did anyone else catch that? I wonder if they'll run that angle going forward. Edge/Finn will likely be a match going forward.. maybe ay Mania. Heel Balor has been fun. I'd like to see a Demon Balor under one of his masks and unveiled with a Judgement Day paint scheme.

It's nice to see WWE have some good non-title feuds to end with a Mania match. Rollins/Paul and Edge/Balor will be fun.

They should decouple the belts and have Roman fight twice. Or do Sami Cody Reigns triple threat. Even if Sami won a title at Mania it wouldn't be the same as winning it in Montreal.

 

[Knicks411]

Overall, Elimination Chmaber was a good show.. and some good posts/points have already been made about it.

One I didn't see made here yet... in the mixed tag match, it looked like Beth missed her mark to save Edge from being pinned by Finn. In doing so, the ref clearly stopped the 3 count because of it. Did anyone else catch that?

Yes that was brutal. Took the crowd out of it for a minute or two.

 

[Symphony Steve]

From 'should'a beaten Roman Reigns' to a feud with--Baron Corbin?

You're kiddin' me. Well, not a feud, but a rehab attempt. Still, it's Baron Corbin.

 

[jncuse]

From 'should'a beaten Roman Reigns' to a feud with--Baron Corbin?

You're kiddin' me. Well, not a feud, but a rehab attempt. Still, it's Baron Corbin.

NOTE - When I posted the below I didn't realize they were actually going to have him a match tonight - I had paused after the opening segment and did a few other things and hadn't even started watching again while I was posting. So now I see they are having an actual match

--------

It's likely just setting up one TV match where obviously Sami will win.
I think you are overreacting in thinking they are setting up any real program here.

AEW have matches between the champion (before MJF) and guys like Donte Martin and Lee Johnson fairly frequently Which is fine as well. It's not a program - just a match.

You can still be disappointed though in Sami not being champ... that's a different matter.

 

[jncuse]

So while I was walking today I let my mind wander to Sami booking.

Right or wrong (probably wrong on the WWE's part) I don't think the WWE intends to give him the title in the short term (i.e by end of WM 39). They are probably going the tag route, and at least they are setting that up well tonight by setting up a good story to get there... even if should have been higher ambitions for Sami.

But let's say it is their intention to make Sami champ by end of WM. If they had Sami win on Saturday, they would have set up a Sami/Cody match at WM 39 with Sami defending the title. That doesn't make much sense either. They would have to come up with a different path to get there as well. Let's hope they find that path, but not holding out hope.

Hope what they give us is good.